2017-'18 GT500 & GT500KR

[nastang87xx]

"
You see, a Flat plane crank creates an insane amount of vibration. What does the crank have to do with how the fuel combust in the chambers? I'm not sure why you asked that BUT, I will tell you why a crank matters here... it would be difficult for a crank to survive that vibration AND addional stress from FI.

Because none of these engines have any dampening systems...right. Considering that I've owned both a 'Yote and a GT350, I can tell you right now that Ford did a great job at vibration dampening. My Coyote was rougher than my Voodoo. Keep jabbing nonsense. The crank doesn't matter as long as it's dampened correctly. Stay on Facebook please and leave REAL car talk to real enthusiasts.

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[thePill]

Because none of these engines have any dampening systems...right. Considering that I've owned both a 'Yote and a GT350, I can tell you right now that Ford did a great job at vibration dampening. My Coyote was rougher than my Voodoo. Keep jabbing nonsense. The crank doesn't matter as long as it's dampened correctly. Stay on Facebook please and leave REAL car talk to real enthusiasts.

Have you ever owned a Twin Turbo Voodoo in an OEM Mustang? It's not about the vibration in the car (NVH).... it's all about the internal vibration and stresses on the crank/connecting rods.

I'm sorry... I too want to see a large displacement TT FPC... I just think it's possible in the $66,995 range. It's just not happening...

 

[Darkane]

Because none of these engines have any dampening systems...right. Considering that I've owned both a 'Yote and a GT350, I can tell you right now that Ford did a great job at vibration dampening. My Coyote was rougher than my Voodoo. Keep jabbing nonsense. The crank doesn't matter as long as it's dampened correctly. Stay on Facebook please and leave REAL car talk to real enthusiasts.

I've said this in other threads but - roughness and lope DO NOT equal vibration and harsh frequencies.

There are different frequencies that exist at certain RPMs that are almost impossible to pick up by feel, and they can be the ones that destroy the engine.

I work in an industry where vibration monitoring is of outmost importance in preventative maintenance. We run turbines, massive BFW pumps, compressors and all sorts of rotating equipment. I also have the advantage of being the boots on the floor and I can, first hand, see/feel/hear what small changes in vibration are like. So many times I've been beside a pump and all I've felt was a slight almost weightlessness beside the pump base as I stood. It wasn't rough or loud or anything but just enough of the floor at the correct frequency made me 'feel' it in a sense of weightlessness. Very hard to explain but believe me it exists.

Long story short part of that pumps frequency curve was in the high alarm values and we had to reduce the VFD a little to get it out of that frequency.

 

[cosmo]

Because none of these engines have any dampening systems...right. Considering that I've owned both a 'Yote and a GT350, I can tell you right now that Ford did a great job at vibration dampening. My Coyote was rougher than my Voodoo. Keep jabbing nonsense. The crank doesn't matter as long as it's dampened correctly. Stay on Facebook please and leave REAL car talk to real enthusiasts.

Ford did a great job of isolating the vibration from the chassis. However, that engine is still vibrating like crazy. Look at the oil filter issues as one. I'm sure we will eventually be seeing some issues with bracketry on the engine if they weren't design robust enough.

 

[moubayed]

Because none of these engines have any dampening systems...right. Considering that I've owned both a 'Yote and a GT350, I can tell you right now that Ford did a great job at vibration dampening. My Coyote was rougher than my Voodoo. Keep jabbing nonsense. The crank doesn't matter as long as it's dampened correctly. Stay on Facebook please and leave REAL car talk to real enthusiasts.

thats a bit unecessary harsh, isnt it?

 

[cosmo]

thats a bis unecessary harsh, isnt it?

No, thepill has been plaguing these forums for awhile spewing lots and lots of nonsense.

 

[moubayed]

true, but he might be right about the vibration of the eninge. Even though i am certain, that it is hardly noticeable as a driver.

 

[Stuntman]

Because none of these engines have any dampening systems...right. Considering that I've owned both a 'Yote and a GT350, I can tell you right now that Ford did a great job at vibration dampening. My Coyote was rougher than my Voodoo. Keep jabbing nonsense. The crank doesn't matter as long as it's dampened correctly. Stay on Facebook please and leave REAL car talk to real enthusiasts.

They all do, it's called a water pump. Well except for old 911s ;)

Of course Ferraris have done a lot for damping engine vibrations, it's just easier with a smaller stroke and smaller displacement engine.

The Voodoo doesn't run rough and is smooth from the damping and isolation Ford has done, but it's the 2nd & $rd order vibrations that you can't feel that cause the most damage, oil filters, etc... that are still there.

 

[Darkane]

Yeah. Think of vibration as noise (often very interchangeable). The higher pitched, higher frequency vibrations may not FEEL worse, but they can be to the mechanical components.

 

[HCT]

The vibration issues were so bad with Voodoo that Raj Nair almost didn't approve it for production. Ford had to develop some brand new (now patented) solutions to cope with it. From an SAE article:

According to Nair, the engine program (which was concurrent with GT350 vehicle development) nearly wasn’t approved for production.

“This [vibration] was our biggest engineering challenge even after we had the first prototype,” Nair noted. “Things were breaking and the technical guys were worried. Whether or not we continued down the flat-plane-crank path for GT350 came down to a critical prototype drive we had scheduled. After that drive, we all went into a meeting room for the debriefing. And we unanimously concluded that we simply had to have this motor! We were determined to solve the issues.”

What followed was, in Nair’s words, “a lot of stiffening of the cylinder block, exhaust system, and various brackets” achieved through an intense FEA analysis, plus “a lot of tuning.” Nair said the result yielded unique torsional-damping technology among other patent-pending actions aimed at taming the beast.

 

[DrumReaper]

Why would u want a TT-FPC to take on a Hellcat?... Makes absolutely zero sense!

Bring on the TT-CPC for the torque, and gobs of torque... Bringing a TT-FPC to a Hellcat fight would be akin to when the supped up wankels tried to beat the guys from Street Outlaws... I chuckled.

 

[thePill]

Why would u want a TT-FPC to take on a Hellcat?... Makes absolutely zero sense!

Bring on the TT-CPC for the torque, and gobs of torque... Bringing a TT-FPC to a Hellcat fight would be akin to when the supped up wankels tried to beat the guys from Street Outlaws... I chuckled.

I desperately wanted to see a Cobra Jet or EU-01 parallel system too BUT, here's another kicker...

At this time, there currently IS NO manual OR automatic transmission that can withstand over 700tq (650 in a TR6060). This is where the intake tuning and BiTurbo system will help. Keep in mind, they could retain a Twin setup (unlikely) but choose a single inlet intake (like a straight 6 Twin setup). But again, heat, package... all an issue.

From what I understand, tuning this "Predator" engine (not Fatboy thank god) to 800hp required a reduction in torque.

I believe it will be a BiTurbo (small>large spool) feeding a single inlet on a cross plane, PTWA Coyote "Predator".

808hp, 650-670tq maybe 5.4 liters for GT500 nostalgia.

 

[thePill]

Let's be clear though... the 808-810hp the media reported is only possible with Port/Direct Injection. However, as time goes on, I believe this "Predator" engine IS the engine that will showcase PDI first. Homologation for the GT350 will take a bit longer and be a bit more public.

Speaking on the GT350, Port/Direct Injection is headed to the Voodoo to further improve cooling. This upgrade comes JUST in the nick of time.


IMSA is merging CTSC GS with some other classes for IMSA GT4. The requirements seem slightly more demanding (bye bye 1Le). An unrestricted 550hp GT350 for GT4 in 2018 will be hard to beat.

 

[thePill]

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62581

Alright engine people, give it a look and see what's up.

Prototype 5.2 liter Coyote making 580hp and 450tq. Need to find out if Port Direct Injection is at play, PTWA and so on. 580hp without PDI is intense!!!


Anyway fella's... there it is... betting the GT500 is a 5.4.

 

[thePill]

http://www.enginelabs.com/features/...rd-racings-new-5-2-coyote-crate-engine-a52xs/


Here are the details on the PTWA 5.2 Coyote. Looks like NO direct or port direct injection on this unit. Around 110hp per liter without DI is impressive.

Notice the HP and TQ gap? 570 vs. 450? About the same gap advertised by thePill here, 808hp vs 650tq.

It also looks like a Cobra Jet style intake (very high runner) is going to be responsible for the gap I reported on. The reason why a BiTurbo Ecoboost can't make torque with HP is because there is no transmission available, the S550 is getting taxed at 650tq and, the high runner, CJ intake.

Doubtful they use a Cobra Jet Twin Turbo set up, most likely it will be similar to the Ford GT's PRODUCTION EB3.5 (vs. the Motorsport version).

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