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2017-'18 GT500 & GT500KR

legendary mustang

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Sooooooooooooo....

Anyone notice the FB post that mentioned another engine being developed? Developed to compete specifically with the Hellcat?

Listen to what's being said now... She wasn't talking GT500 vs Hellcat. She was talking engine vs. engine, Predator vs. Hellcat. I am inclined to almost believe "Predator" could be a ghost name created to identify leaks. I am not completely, 100% convinced "Predator" is the Engines codenamed. I am wrong 99% of the time :lol:


What are Fords options? Somebody did a Flat Plane Crank Twin Turbo at 3.8 or 3.9 liters. Ford needs 800hp though and they won't get leap frogged the day after by Dodge. Tgey anticipate a Hellcat power increase in the near future.

I think an FPC is out of the question. As far as the fuel delivery goes, the bulge in the center of the hood says either Hot V Ecoboost or TVS Supercharger. That's HOW... what about emissions, MPG's?


thePill still says 808hp, 800tq, A10 only KR. That said, Ford needs a regular Ecoboost V8 for the high(er) end Raptor, Bronco and Lightning. I imagine Ford can match the Hellcat's current 707hp/640-650tq. At this level, the base GT500 would be limited to 670tq due to the limited transmission options. The TR6060 can only handle 670tq and I'm sure there is an A10 ready for this level too.

I never wanted the A10 to be in the cards but it is unavoidable now. The reason being was to keep the MSRP as low as possible. Apparently, it's all good.

2017.5 GT500: 712-724hp/640-670tq, M6 and A10, $66,995.

2018 GT500KR: 808hp/800tq, A10 ONLY $71,995-$72,995

Cross Plane Crank only because I feel it is too much technology happening at once. The Supercharged Coyote 5.0 or 5.2 should be reserved for the 55th Anniversary Mach 1. They could also co-release a Bullett or any other nameplate with an NA CPC 5.2.

That would be a happy birthday.

NA CPC 5.2 Mach 1
SC CPC 5.2 Mach 1 Cobra Jet


Best Bday celebration yet IMO.
the KR should be manual and the 10 speed auto.what is interesting is if it has 800hp,and 800tq,it will not be a 5.2.i say it will be a new 6.2.:ford:
 

9secondko

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The HP bump on a 5.0 would be nice...I'm more excited about the torque bump that comes with DI/PI. Even an extra 20 ft/lb's of torque would help greatly..especially if it was in the 3,000ish RPM range.
I think it will be more than that.

The efficiency will be making that my itself, but that will allow Ford to recalibrate for more. Power under the curve should improve dramatically. The Coyote will be a new beast entirely. Some new factory cams and intakes should round it out nicely.
 

thePill

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Looks like the Bronco (and Ranger) are a go.


A few post back thePill specifically mentioned the Bronco in the pool of vehicles that will be using the GT500's Ecoboost. This is where the GT500 and GT500KR could differ... remember, none of this is confirmed.

I believe that the Raptor, Lightning and Super Bronco will all use the Hot V Twin Scroll Ecoboost. As you can see, the F150's Powerstroke V8's and now the EcoBeast will share the same exact design, lower cost even more. In fact, both Hot V PowerStroke and Duel Fuel engines could use similar manifolds. Not only making it cheaper but making Ecoboost and PowerStroke engines interchangeable with very little hassle.

Yes... it is too logical and profitable to pass up. Both technologies are easily interchangeable and the GT500 mule had a "PowerDome" style hood. An indication that something sits in the V... supercharger? or is it technology that they posed the entire time and waited for the market to shift to Truck/SUV's?

thePill believes an Ecoboost design is replacing the supercharger completely. The Hot V, Duel Fuel V8 is being developed for the entire Super truck lineup. It includes the EB V8 Raptor, the F150 Lightning and the Super Bronco. That engine will use a single twin scrolling, Hot V turbo that uses Port Direct Injection (Duel Fuel). At a minimum, the GT500 will use this 700-725hp version of this, let's say 5.4 ;). The trucks could use a 5.2 liter version and keep the 5.4 GT500 only?

However, thePill believes that a GT500KR could be along shortly with its very own Hot V BiTurbo displacing 5.2 up to 5.4 liters...

I think the trucks could use a 5.2 and the GT500 gets its old 5.4 back. 5.5 liters is the maximum displacement in GT and GT3. They forced the Z06 to use 5.5 liters... if Ford is serious. Of course 5.449 liters is technically still a 5.4 ;)
 

thePill

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Seems like Chevy has an LT4+ that they might have called an LT5.

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/08/10/2018-chevrolet-corvette-zr1-details/#slide-4221232

Chevy trademarked the name LT5 a few weeks ago. While some assume it was a Twin Turbo V8, it's easier to believe the LT5 is a forged steel and titanium hardened, maybe slightly larger displacement LT4. They say Chevy is taking a crack at the Hellcat's 707hp so expect the LT5 to be slightly different than the LT4.

Larger displacement would be best, 6.6 would be the very best. A 1.9-2.3 liter supercharger and forged everything... I say 712-721hp.
 

65Terdlingua

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Looks like the Bronco (and Ranger) are a go.


A few post back thePill specifically mentioned the Bronco in the pool of vehicles that will be using the GT500's Ecoboost. This is where the GT500 and GT500KR could differ... remember, none of this is confirmed.

I believe that the Raptor, Lightning and Super Bronco will all use the Hot V Twin Scroll Ecoboost. As you can see, the F150's Powerstroke V8's and now the EcoBeast will share the same exact design, lower cost even more. In fact, both Hot V PowerStroke and Duel Fuel engines could use similar manifolds. Not only making it cheaper but making Ecoboost and PowerStroke engines interchangeable with very little hassle.

Yes... it is too logical and profitable to pass up. Both technologies are easily interchangeable and the GT500 mule had a "PowerDome" style hood. An indication that something sits in the V... supercharger? or is it technology that they posed the entire time and waited for the market to shift to Truck/SUV's?

thePill believes an Ecoboost design is replacing the supercharger completely. The Hot V, Duel Fuel V8 is being developed for the entire Super truck lineup. It includes the EB V8 Raptor, the F150 Lightning and the Super Bronco. That engine will use a single twin scrolling, Hot V turbo that uses Port Direct Injection (Duel Fuel). At a minimum, the GT500 will use this 700-725hp version of this, let's say 5.4 ;). The trucks could use a 5.2 liter version and keep the 5.4 GT500 only?

However, thePill believes that a GT500KR could be along shortly with its very own Hot V BiTurbo displacing 5.2 up to 5.4 liters...

I think the trucks could use a 5.2 and the GT500 gets its old 5.4 back. 5.5 liters is the maximum displacement in GT and GT3. They forced the Z06 to use 5.5 liters... if Ford is serious. Of course 5.449 liters is technically still a 5.4 ;)
Dual means two. Duel is when you pace off and fire a gun at someone. And being Port and Direct injection is not 'Dual Fuel'. Ethanol and gasoline is dual fuel.

And you are high if you think the 6.7l will share components with whatever engine is being developed, Hot V Bi-Turbo Parallel Duel or otherwise.
 

JohnZiraldo

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Dual means two. Duel is when you pace off and fire a gun at someone. And being Port and Direct injection is not 'Dual Fuel'. Ethanol and gasoline is dual fuel.

And you are high if you think the 6.7l will share components with whatever engine is being developed, Hot V Bi-Turbo Parallel Duel or otherwise.
Duel does not have to mean firing a gun. Think of sword fights.
A Duel might also be a competition between two injectors to get fuel into the same cylinder. :shrug:
 

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HCT

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That engine will use a single twin scrolling, Hot V turbo that uses Port Direct Injection (Duel Fuel).
Please, please stop trying to take existing terms and assign new meanings to them. A dual (not duel) fuel motor is one that can run off of two fuels, like gasoline and CNG.
 

FordBlueHeart

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If you guys would stop trying to put the Pill in his place since you despise him so much.:frusty:...you might realize he could be onto something. The Bobcat is a dual fuel engine that was talked about in 2009 or earlier IIRC. It's primarily fueled by gasoline, but upon sensing it needs more power, it would inject ethanol with, wait for it, auxiliary injectors.
Here's an article I just pulled up. http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/06/sneak-peek-ford-bobcat-dual-fuel-engine.html
I'm not sure if this is the one I read initially, but I do recall them talking about a hydraulic hybrid too.
 

GrabberBlue

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Something interesting to look at is Ken Block's Hoonicorn V2 is going to be a Twin Turbo V8 and I guarantee that Ford Performance had something to do with it. I believe they are promoting it to ready the public for the EcoBeast motor.
 

HCT

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he could be onto something. The Bobcat is a dual fuel engine that was talked about in 2009 or earlier IIRC. It's primarily fueled by gasoline, but upon sensing it needs more power, it would inject ethanol with, wait for it, auxiliary injectors.
How can you think that he was referring to a true dual fuel engine? He was making up terms for a motor that has both direct and fuel injection (it's a design that minimizes carbon buildup on valves) and chose "duel [sic] fuel" -- that has nothing to do with what you cited.

But that's precisely the problem with appropriating terms that already have a meaning, it's confusing.

I should add that if Ford does adopt a supplemental injection system, it's more likely to be the Bosch water injection system used in the BMW M3 GTS. Bosch recently announced that they're willing to license it to all comers. Depending on engine tune you either get better MPG or more power. It's tech that can affordably be used to keep NA engines on the market a little while longer.
 
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thePill

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Please, please stop trying to take existing terms and assign new meanings to them. A dual (not duel) fuel motor is one that can run off of two fuels, like gasoline and CNG.
Please, please contact Ford and tell them to stop using that term...

I know fuel is gasoline and air, I don't know why they are calling it "Duel Fuel".


thePill calls it Port Direct Injection but in the recent F150 video they call it duel fuel.
 

thePill

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Dual means two. Duel is when you pace off and fire a gun at someone. And being Port and Direct injection is not 'Dual Fuel'. Ethanol and gasoline is dual fuel.

And you are high if you think the 6.7l will share components with whatever engine is being developed, Hot V Bi-Turbo Parallel Duel or otherwise.
I know what it means but that isn't what Ford is calling it. Look at the video of the new 3.5 posted a few pages back.

Ford representatives are calling it "Dual Fuel" so... not much I can do about it. I don't agree with many manufacturers marketing terms, Twin Turbo being one of them.

I agree... that is why thePill has been calling it Port Direct until the video showed up calling it something else.
 

thePill

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Here is the link that TFL talk with Ford engine rep
The video above has an Engine Rep speaking about the "Dual Fuel" system...


thePill had previously called it Port Direct Injection until I seen this video. I don't really agree with the name either but that is apparently the direction here.

The "Twin Turbo" term is tossed around as well...

You are probably going to get a Dual Fuel Twin Turbo and it won't technically be either :lol:

Sue thePill...
 

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