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2017-'18 GT500 & GT500KR

J_Maher_AMG

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If you look at the Spy photos again, everyone will notice a large bump in the center of the hood. Traditionally, this would indicate a supercharged V8. Reason being? A supercharger rest in between the cylinder banks where the 5.0's composite intake was.

A Twin Turbo or Parallel Turbo DOES NOT sit inside the V.

So... It has to be a supercharger...

There is absolutely no way Ford followed AMG on this very topic right? There is no way they would copy the Powerstroke design that they have right?

If we eliminate the Turbos, what does a V8 need to produce 750-800hp? An OEM 5.0 can probably make 650hp and pass emissions. Chevy needed DI and I'm betting Ford does too... So it needs a 2.3 liter TVS, Direct Injection and what should it displace? 5.0? 5.5? 4.0?

At 4.0, the engine would need to make 200hp per Liter and you need a 4 cylinder to pull those numbers. A 5.0 is 160hp per liter but then again, definitely needs DI. The EB3.5 makes 171hp and I doubt any V8 can beat that.

AMG's 4.0 made 503hp in 2014, not sure about now. It is easily a 600hp engine at 4 liters but that's about it. That's 150hp per liter and a V8 could achieve that...

At 150hp per liter, a 5.0 will produce 750hp.

Understand, 150hp per liter is an efficient V8...

In order for Ford to reach 800hp, they could push more boost or become more efficient at 5 liters. So, if 808hp was correct to begin with (they say as much as 810 now), they would need to do so by increasing the displacement.

thePill says it will need to be between 5.0 and 5.5 liters in order to make 800hp. thePill says it will be 5.4 liters and 808hp and nearly equal torque. I DO NOT feel that a supercharger will be utilized. There is a "Powerdome" for sure and most assume it's a supercharger. thePill feels that is incorrect. AMG discontinued the 5.5 Parallel BiTurbo which made close to 600hp with a Hot V BiTurbo 4.0 that makes 500-550hp. The GT500 will not use a traditional Twin Turbo... it will use a Hot V BiTurbo. Only explanation for the bump on the hood. A supercharger would need more than 5.8 liters to make 750-800 and be legal. Also, a parallel system mounts low and forward to the engine block, no room for one here.

There is still a SC Coyote to be had and it will probably be the 55th Anniversary Mach 1. It doesn't need to make 750-800hp. A Supercharged Cross Plane 5.2 could comfortably make 620-670hp and could arrive right when sales need a bump. I feel there will be a Hot V Single Turbo, Twin Scroll GT500 that sits around Hellcat HP levels, comes in manual and auto and is $66,995.

The GT500KR will be the higher end, 800+hp Hot V BiTurbo and use Ford 800tq A10 only. It will probably be in the $70,000's
I've thought from the beginning and hoped that they would follow in AMG's footsteps regarding the Hot V bi-turbo design. Very effective layout and minimizes lag/maximizes response time which is great.

The 4.0TT V8 at 600 hp even is nowhere close to being near its limits. Renntech has already threw a couple of minor bolt ons and with a tune put down 699whp on 93 octane.... lol that engine is easily capable of 1000hp on stock internals; they are some of, if not the best, engines produced in the world.

At 5.0L or even 5.2L, Ford could easily, easily put out 800hp on anywhere from 9-14 lbs of boost with a biturbo setup. Might not even need that much boost really. For every 1 atm of pressure from a turbocharger, it equates to an approximate doubling of cubic inches in regards to if the engine was naturally aspirated.

I disagree with the Mach prediction; it has always been an NA car in the past, and I seriously doubt Ford will ever utilize a supercharger again IF the GT500 does indeed utilize an ecoboost engine, as that would be simply going backward. I think it would be more likely that the Mach 1 would be an option box or alternative model to the GT as it was originally, rather than its own separate car. The Mach 1 has never been as special as either of the Shelby variants, so I would say its probably more likely to be akin to the 1LE that you can option from a Camaro SS.
 

J_Maher_AMG

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What is the possibility of a Boss block, punched out to 7 Liters, cast in aluminum? Add DOCH heads, naturally aspirated?
At anything over 100 hp per liter, it would be near the targeted HP.

With the uniqueness and cool factor of the Voodoo, it would be a bit of a letdown to see a 5.0 or 5.4 or 5.8L coyote with turbos...and a REAL letdown to see a supercharged Coyote.

I can't see for taking the easy road after the grand slam of the Voodoo.

Also, at 7 liters, the 428 connection is there, and the Boss 429 thing is there too.

Wishful thinking, but a NA 428 making 725 hp would put the buldge in my pants.
They'd probably never pass emissions laws with an engine like that unfortunately, big reason the LS7 is now gone. But it would be sweet to see a modern day big block :)
 

EJS2016

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How much will this 800+ hp, 5.0-5.2L biturbo ride cost us?
 

J_Maher_AMG

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How much will this 800+ hp, 5.0-5.2L biturbo ride cost us?
If I were to guess, I could see it being a 70-75K car US for that kind of power and tech. I paid 96K plus 15% tax for my R here in Canada, and that was only 5K over, so I imagine the 500 to be more expensive again.
 

9secondko

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I've thought from the beginning and hoped that they would follow in AMG's footsteps regarding the Hot V bi-turbo design. Very effective layout and minimizes lag/maximizes response time which is great.

The 4.0TT V8 at 600 hp even is nowhere close to being near its limits. Renntech has already threw a couple of minor bolt ons and with a tune put down 699whp on 93 octane.... lol that engine is easily capable of 1000hp on stock internals; they are some of, if not the best, engines produced in the world.

At 5.0L or even 5.2L, Ford could easily, easily put out 800hp on anywhere from 9-14 lbs of boost with a biturbo setup. Might not even need that much boost really. For every 1 atm of pressure from a turbocharger, it equates to an approximate doubling of cubic inches in regards to if the engine was naturally aspirated.

I disagree with the Mach prediction; it has always been an NA car in the past, and I seriously doubt Ford will ever utilize a supercharger again IF the GT500 does indeed utilize an ecoboost engine, as that would be simply going backward. I think it would be more likely that the Mach 1 would be an option box or alternative model to the GT as it was originally, rather than its own separate car. The Mach 1 has never been as special as either of the Shelby variants, so I would say its probably more likely to be akin to the 1LE that you can option from a Camaro SS.
Idk.

The gt500 and zl1 were NA cars as well.

No reason to hold a car back when you can improve it.

The gt350 is the NA champ right now.

Perhaps the Mach will take its spot... or perhaps the Mach will become what the GT500 has traditionally been.

What's also interesting is that the original gt500 gave preference to the auto over the manual.
 
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jonb347

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yall are talking about a 10 speed auto with 800 torque capacity. its already coming and in the F150s for 17. The 6r80 is 800 ft lbs capable. that's what the 80 stands for. That's how transmission designations work. The speed, the driveline, the torque.

6 speed, r rear, 800 ft lbs.

the 10r80 is coming to the trucks now. of course it will be in the mustang and not just the gt500 when it finally comes
 

thePill

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thePill will continue to follow the Hot V BiTurbo design because I feel that is the only way forward or even to 800hp.
 

thePill

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How much will this 800+ hp, 5.0-5.2L biturbo ride cost us?
Reality? Not much more than the Voodoo just because cost is spread out through the truck line and previous Coyote profits. The R&D isn't the entire engine so much as it is just fuel delivery. The LT1 absorbs the cost of the LT4, LT5, LT7 ect...

We may also see 2 versions of the engine. A single, Twin Scrolling Turbo and the BiTurbo configurations (GT500 and GT500KR).

The GT500 is hopefully a $66,995 base car. The KR WILL be $70,000-$75,000.




thePill's interest lay solely in the HALO Mustang now. The GT350 needs no more commentary from thePill.
 

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thePill

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Sooooooooooooo....

Anyone notice the FB post that mentioned another engine being developed? Developed to compete specifically with the Hellcat?

Listen to what's being said now... She wasn't talking GT500 vs Hellcat. She was talking engine vs. engine, Predator vs. Hellcat. I am inclined to almost believe "Predator" could be a ghost name created to identify leaks. I am not completely, 100% convinced "Predator" is the Engines codenamed. I am wrong 99% of the time :lol:


What are Fords options? Somebody did a Flat Plane Crank Twin Turbo at 3.8 or 3.9 liters. Ford needs 800hp though and they won't get leap frogged the day after by Dodge. Tgey anticipate a Hellcat power increase in the near future.

I think an FPC is out of the question. As far as the fuel delivery goes, the bulge in the center of the hood says either Hot V Ecoboost or TVS Supercharger. That's HOW... what about emissions, MPG's?


thePill still says 808hp, 800tq, A10 only KR. That said, Ford needs a regular Ecoboost V8 for the high(er) end Raptor, Bronco and Lightning. I imagine Ford can match the Hellcat's current 707hp/640-650tq. At this level, the base GT500 would be limited to 670tq due to the limited transmission options. The TR6060 can only handle 670tq and I'm sure there is an A10 ready for this level too.

I never wanted the A10 to be in the cards but it is unavoidable now. The reason being was to keep the MSRP as low as possible. Apparently, it's all good.

2017.5 GT500: 712-724hp/640-670tq, M6 and A10, $66,995.

2018 GT500KR: 808hp/800tq, A10 ONLY $71,995-$72,995

Cross Plane Crank only because I feel it is too much technology happening at once. The Supercharged Coyote 5.0 or 5.2 should be reserved for the 55th Anniversary Mach 1. They could also co-release a Bullett or any other nameplate with an NA CPC 5.2.

That would be a happy birthday.

NA CPC 5.2 Mach 1
SC CPC 5.2 Mach 1 Cobra Jet


Best Bday celebration yet IMO.
 

minjitta

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If the GT500 is in LA, I think there will be a 2017.5 GT500 but no KR's.

The 2018 GT500KR will show up in Detroit and be A10 Auto only.


thePill honestly feels that the GT500 and GT500KR will be completely different outputs like the 2008-2009 KR. The 800hp GT500KR is probably A10 ONLY.

The GT500 could be 700-750hp with a single twin scroll turbo. Rumor suggest that at the very least, direct injection is being added to the 5.0. Word is the F150 is also getting DI in 2018. If the 5.0 gets DI, the Voodoo will adopt it as well.
New F150 will have 12 injectors 2 injectors for every cylinder. One injector will spray direct into the top center of the bowl shape piston and the other injector is in the intake port spray ahead of the valve, and CAMS are 4lbs lighter, guess these tech will be on Mustang. Imagine 16 injectors on an v8, and 4+lbs lighter CAMS, taking the weight right out of the engine is alway be good.:ford::ford:

Here is the link that TFL talk with Ford engine rep [ame]
 
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thePill

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New F150 will have 12 injectors 2 injectors for every cylinder. One injector will spray direct into the top center of the bowl shape piston and the other injector is in the intake port spray ahead of the valve, and CAMS are 4lbs lighter, guess these tech will be on Mustang. Imagine 24 injectors on an v8, and 4+lbs lighter CAMS, taking the weight right out of the engine is alway be good.:ford::ford:

Here is the link that TFL talk with Ford engine rep
Well there it is... I have been calling it "Port Direct Injection" but I'm sure there is a better name.


...you'll be Reader of the Week if you can find the name they have it and post it.
 

MadCow

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New F150 will have 12 injectors 2 injectors for every cylinder. One injector will spray direct into the top center of the bowl shape piston and the other injector is in the intake port spray ahead of the valve, and CAMS are 4lbs lighter, guess these tech will be on Mustang. Imagine 24 injectors on an v8, and 4+lbs lighter CAMS, taking the weight right out of the engine is alway be good.:ford::ford:
16 injectors wouldn't suffice for a V8. What ya gonna do with the 3rd set lol
 

thePill

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Looks like a 20-30hp boost across the V8 lineup. Beginning 2018, the GT, GT350 and GT500 may all have Port Direct Injection.

This clears the way for Fords first Ecoboost V8. This will also get rid of the Gas Guzzler tax on the GT350.
 

1320'

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The HP bump on a 5.0 would be nice...I'm more excited about the torque bump that comes with DI/PI. Even an extra 20 ft/lb's of torque would help greatly..especially if it was in the 3,000ish RPM range.
 

thePill

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The HP bump on a 5.0 would be nice...I'm more excited about the torque bump that comes with DI/PI. Even an extra 20 ft/lb's of torque would help greatly..especially if it was in the 3,000ish RPM range.
Oh yeah, no doubt.

PDI seems to be the direction the F150 is going so the potential for more than DI gains are there. DI gains 20-30hp easy... PDI is probably 5hp above any DI counterpart.

PDI is needed for an Ecoboost V8 and if thePills crazy Hot V rumor is correct, you definitely can't do a Hot V turbo without. The GT350 could use cooler cylinder temperatures and a boost in emissions and fuel economy to relieve the Gas Gizzler Tax. PDI will help the Voodoo2 run cooler, make more power, torque, better fuel efficiency AND, maybe a slightly different sound if the exhaust manifolds are evened out to equal length.

A Hot V BiTurbo 5.4 Cross Plane Crank V8 w/ Port Direct Injection, Plasma Transfer Wire Arc Cylinder Walls and Hydro-formed Hollow Camshafts.

:)
 

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