2014 Z28 Assault Thread.

[thePill]

They should have eliminated the SS for MY2014 and once, if ever, a supercharged Camaro is needed it could be re-branded an SS. Instead, they should have released a scalable Z28 series. The Z28, Z-28 and finally, the Z/28. Could have fit a Z/28.R (302R) in the lineup.

Scalable from $35k to $120k and usable.

Z28-Boss 302
Z-28- Laguna
Z/28-302S
Z/28.R-302R

All Boss levels would have been covered, the Z28 would continue to sell and be strictly Camaro.

Sponsored

 

[JohnZiraldo]

They should have eliminated the SS for MY2014 and once, if ever, a supercharged Camaro is needed it could be re-branded an SS. Instead, they should have released a scalable Z28 series. The Z28, Z-28 and finally, the Z/28. Could have fit a Z/28.R (302R) in the lineup.

Scalable from $35k to $120k and usable.

Z28-Boss 302
Z-28- Laguna
Z/28-302S
Z/28.R-302R

All Boss levels would have been covered, the Z28 would continue to sell and be strictly Camaro.

Then Oppi would have been exposed to an 0-4 record against the Boss.

 

[Dirk McGurck]

They should have eliminated the SS for MY2014 and once, if ever, a supercharged Camaro is needed it could be re-branded an SS. Instead, they should have released a scalable Z28 series. The Z28, Z-28 and finally, the Z/28. Could have fit a Z/28.R (302R) in the lineup.

Scalable from $35k to $120k and usable.

Z28-Boss 302
Z-28- Laguna
Z/28-302S
Z/28.R-302R

All Boss levels would have been covered, the Z28 would continue to sell and be strictly Camaro.

The rotating slash is a bit confusing.

 

[S550 64G]

They should have eliminated the SS for MY2014 and once, if ever, a supercharged Camaro is needed it could be re-branded an SS. Instead, they should have released a scalable Z28 series. The Z28, Z-28 and finally, the Z/28. Could have fit a Z/28.R (302R) in the lineup.

Scalable from $35k to $120k and usable.

Z28-Boss 302
Z-28- Laguna
Z/28-302S
Z/28.R-302R

All Boss levels would have been covered, the Z28 would continue to sell and be strictly Camaro.

Why would GM try to compete with a car (Boss) that is well past it's production run? Granted they do keep trying to come up with an answer to what Ford puts out but that would just be pathetic. Like Ford, they should set their sights a little higher for the next-gen car instead of chasing and reacting to Ford. The Camaro wasn't even bench marked or considered during development of the new Mustang.

They need to just go all out and make the Camaro the best it can be, not just "good enough" and try to stay barely competitive. Look at GM's new trucks for another case in point. Just good enough to keep current owners happy. They are seriously not going to be prepared for the '15 F150 with it's looks, technology, features and fuel economy. GM finally just came out with an answer to the 3.5L Ecoboost, 4 years later!! Which for some reason GM did not put it in their "new" trucks. Seriously??!! Over 50% of F150's are sold with the 3.5L but GM still refuses to put it in their trucks. It's no wonder why they will never outsell the F150.

 

[Norm Peterson]

No, I am saying two things.

1. I predict the SVT GT350 will outperform the Z28 even if you fully loaded it (as I said earlier assuming the weight is reduced and the engine performance is up ie 3600 lbs + 525 to 550 hp) since the Z28 is starting from a very heavy starting point and had to reduce even what is considered basics to get the performance to where it is.

As lightly edited, I can agree.

2. I also stated that for >$75K, it is good to have the ability to option it out as you personally see fit. I do not care whether you and I have different opinions on what we would order on the car, that is why it is optional.

As soon as all manner of comfort, luxury, and convenience features can be added to a Z/28 or a GT350, you're shifting the focus away from the folks who would drive it as intended at one end of the spectrum . . . in order to cater to those at the other end who care as much or more about having an OE-applied GT350 or Z/28 badge. I do not view diluting the bare-knuckled brawler image of a Z/28 or any direct competitor with "features" as being a good thing.

The $75k cost of entry is a different story, and I don't see the lack of amenities as being relevant. Not when I'd actually pay money in order to NOT get certain things.

I do not see the value in a Z28. It is a pure track car and there are better cheaper pure track cars.

From the OEs, the other pure track cars are even more expensive, and those generally are not capable of being registered for street use (Boss 302R, Boss302S, Cobra Jet, COPO).

The Z/28 at least can be legally driven to and from the track, or most anywhere else paved roads go, and I think that capability will be important to many of the people who buy one.

Sure, a Miata track car would be a lot cheaper and it certainly would be a lot of fun, but it wouldn't be the same. I'm sure that Vorshlag would build you an LS-motored BMW that would get you closer to the Z/28 in at least some respects, for somewhat more money than the Miata, or that others would do something similar with other rolling chassis and perhaps other engines.


Norm

 

[thePill]

The rotating slash is a bit confusing.

Okay, maybe my Z28 naming scheme gets a bit confusing. It can't get any worse than the peaking order now. When the 6th Gen comes out, I hope they hunker down and clean up the whole brand. I still think the SS should be the forced induction model and the ZL1 should have remained an Aluminum 427 like the original ZL1. It wouldn't have been streamlined but, the ZL1 could have been your Carbon Z28. Another suggestion would have been to work the Z28 series into the lineup.

Z28 $34,000 (current SS)
Z28 1LE $40,000 GMP spec'd up to $50,000 (stripper package used in the 90s, LS7 available)
SS $54,000 (current LSA ZL1)
SSX $58,000 (2.3 SC equipped)
ZL1 $67,000-$69,000 (current z28)
Z/28 $75,000 (LT1 Camaro, 100% race ready, built to spec)
Z/28 Carbon (All your illegal equipment is optioned here, the 1969 ZL1 Z/28)
SS Z28 $82,000 (LS9 Camaro, 90s badge)
COPO $85,000 up to $120,000
Z/28.R $120,000 (Pro turn key)

It isn't all streamlined like the new Mustang but, for the Camaro, it works and works well. Once I'm done with Industrial Design, I would love to work for Team Camaro. Sometimes I wish I could go back in time an fix the Camaro in some much needed areas. It had an oppertunnity to be a cool car. Anyway, Chevy would have to brush off all the pie I have been throwin'... After a decade overseas in conflict, I could use the pressure.

 

[thePill]

What should have been never was. If they wanted to sell volumes of cars, they would have made the Z28 to the Camaro as the 5.0 is to the GT. The Z28 should have been everywhere and able to scale as the owner seen fit. What was the Camaro, the backbone, has now been placed out of the hands of it's faithful. Chevy however did not place the z28 out of the competitions reach. A 7:37 is great for the heavy platform and shabby IRS and then again, a 7:39 is great for a live axle and a 10 year old model. The Z28 IS the Camaro, or was... Now it's something most Camaro owners can't have. I know, I know... It is a track focused experiment for the hardcore track day guys. I just don't see the connection between hardcore racing components and not being permitted to enter regional classes in both circuit and solo. There still has been no attempt by Chevrolet to sanction the z28 in any SCCA, IMSA or NASA class... AT ALL... How can you be track focused but lose site of the competitive side? As somebody suggested before, there was just no means available for the heavy Camaro to produce a competitive z28 while adhering to the rulebooks. This is where multiple levels of Z28's would have come in handy. Instead of spending millions of dollars in R&D, why not increase factory support in IMSA/Tudor USC (then Grand Am). Using the LS3, while providing the public with a Z28, it would be affordable, legal and competitive. Team Camaro gave up on the 1LE in SCCA T2... That would have been a decent place to start as well. Again, you have serious issues with a 7 liter LS7 in road racing. The Z06 is limited to just 5.5 liters in ALMS and now in Grand Am/IMSA/Tudor USC. Carbon Ceramic Brakes as well as a disc larger than 380mm in the front is also prohibited. This simple fact still escapes some "hardcore" benchers over on C5. I wish they could discuss this in detail over here, they are always welcome I am sure. I will warn you right away, I will want to know your opinion on Team Camaro's shaving lap times and sandbagging. This is a topic C5 never really indulges in... I seriously want to hear some comments on that topic. It is just oddly overlooked on a regular basis.

As the prohibited equipment litters the z28, Zfat will litter the internet having you believe he intends to set out on an HPDE event rampage and really tear up the stopwatch. For $7000 more brother, you can play for real with a Boss 302S. As I said elsewhere, you might not be able to drive the 302S to the track, but at least you can drive it ON the track when you get there. That's some pretty serious money for what you guys are calling a "Status and Prestige" charge. I think Team Camaro actually put some of that AC cost into the MSRP... In fact, I think Team Camaro went ahead and priced for dealer mark-up. They figured people would pay $5-10,000 more on mark-ups anyway, why not account for that already. It may in fact leave no room for the dealers to go if the cars sit on lots too long. Of the few that do race, I see a track warranty being used as justification of a $75,000 MSRP. I have to see some pretty impressive numbers before I say $75,000 was or was not worth it. If the R&D led the 5th Gen Camaro to it's first road racing title then I would say yes. However, since you will never see this car competing, It will be difficult for it to win a championship. More so after the 2015 GT350 devours this pig. Lets see some lap times here in America. I am even eager to see Team Camaro's totally unbiased results while only using an OEM package. Did they ever show the actual z28 that did the 7:37 Ring lap??? Caged for sure... I know they did a switch-a-roo and tried to pass the Milford z28 off as the Ring z28. This is the same magic z28 that beat the GT500's Milford time while doing a media tour at 80%. That is the point in which SVT accidentally slipped the video heard round the World (Many thanks still go out to Travis).

Who cares if it can't be registered to do what Chevy markets the car for... But then again, the same handful of members will argue for the next 70 pages that it IS legal to run carbon ceramic brakes... In like Formula 1. It's not just the carbon ceramic brakes Zflatulence... The front disc are over 380mm, the front tires are over 285mm, the LS7 is limited to 5.5 liters/weight penalty elsewhere. The whole car, everything that make a 2014 z28 a 2014 z28 is essentially the reason it cannot be sanctioned ANYWHERE feasible. Initially, I didn't care if most of the z28's ended up in storage, I seen potential buyers sizing the car up to either replace their current race car or, god forbid, try and start racing with this thing. Not a good way to get someone evolved in Motorsport, by getting them turned away at inspection. Am I missing the point? I don;t think so... Over and over, I hear that it is not a race car, it is not for competition. Fine, but then they compare it to a COPO for the road. No, there you go again... The COPO is a race car, the z28 is NOT a race car. They slip right back into it like mindless drones. They have been marketed on and they can't get up. I tried to option out a 1LE and get over my original $67,000 prediction. I know there are some improvements made I can't account for and yes, production numbers have an impact. That said, I figured in a buffer for what I could account for and still, I only got to about $67k. That's an $8000 demand for limit numbers...

The ZL1 currently races in the SCCA GTS class, it is essentially an LS3 Riley Camaro just as the Grand Am GT car is. It has a one piece aftermarket body and exposed B pillar. I can see Team Camaro taking the easy way out and pushing the badge and not the car. It is really cheap to do that and rewards laziness. Other manufacturers earn the right to use an OEM badge on the car in Pro racing by making a production version close to the race car. In IMSA, the Camaro uses a generic GS.R and GT.R due to the power train being outsourced. Any z28 found in professional racing will not even be close to the OEM garbage. Maybe it will use the Z06's ALMS 5.5 LS7... One thing is for sure, Al O himself feels that racing is a very big deal. So big he would rather petition an organization to create a special series for the z28. Instead of engineering the car to be placed in one of the almost two dozen class the Mustang is in.

Some would say the z28 was made for the pure car enthusiast. I say that is far from the truth... Since any car enthusiast would want a completely legal and extremely competitive base to build on. With the MSRP at least $8000 more than I can virtually account for, I would say the z28's purpose and target market is clear. It's target market is obviously car enthusiast but, Team Camaro continues to target an even more elite group. The race car market... To what purpose??? To market a car as a pure-bred race car like Ford did with the Boss 302. Market the car and marketing ONLY. Team Camaro didn't do the work Ford did, it's expensive and it takes too long right? I mean, that is season long R&D.

Those awkwardly excited few that still flap on about the killer bargain for $75,000 are not fooling anyone. After page 3, the common vibe is that the MSRP is ridiculous. I admire the effort put forth by Joe, Zfat, Lowdown and Clyde to erect some sort of damage control. I'm not sure you can convince many that it is a bargain. For the most part, C5 members are just not into it. Some are just insulted that they waited for this and a 7:37. Your gonna need a hell of a lot faster Ring time than a 7:37... The '13 GT500 is right behind that and in my honest opinion, that is just not worth $75k.

The z28 is not a pure-bred anything, there is no pedigree or heritage being past on here. The 1967 Z/28 was an RPO code, nothing else. It wasn't even that great in Trans Am. The GT350 dominated the Z/28 in '67. If I remember correctly, Chevy began using Z/28 and had the car badged accordingly. That's about the only thing the two have in common... The marketing of the badge, brand and name...

In turn, what Team Camaro has accomplished, is further alienating the backbone of Camaro nameplates from it's core. They specifically created a Camaro to conform to the self proclaimed car enthusiast and Camaro fans of the extreme nature. A Camaro developed with magazine victories in mind over regional, divisional or national championships. The nameplate that had the potential to sell the most will be produced the least and for the most money. A painfully apparent display of an inflated self worth... The only real target market audience for a car like this had no idea the car they were so interested in was in fact NOT a race car. Nor could you use this z28 in the lowly regional classes most GT and Boss 302's are found. The z28 will see no returns, no profit made, no real engineering advancements, its a huge step back for a street car and again, absolutely NO championships.

...and now... after 50 years, the legendary automobile that drew first blood is returning. The last time the GT350 and z28 were on the same circuit, the GT350 won a SCCA Trans Am Championship. It is on it's way fella's and if you thought the GT500 whooped up on the ZL1, wait till you get a load of this. The GT350 will be world class and probably pretty close to what Corvette has to offer at the same price point. What then??? Ford has contracted Multimatic to help research and develop during the season, maybe not this season but they are going to create a real, race-bred Mustang. Ford was using the Boss 302S to benchmark the 2015 GT against... That is a 1:32-1:36 at Laguna Seca boys... I personally get excited when I think about the Mustang being based on the race car. More excited when Ford sanctions the cars in Motorsport... Even more excited when that offering is cheaper than the competition by a long shot.


Perhaps I am "missing it", maybe I just don't get it. Along with a nice chunk of your own Camaro fans as well... and I see the media isn't exactly overjoyed at the big $75k. I'm offering a stage to anyone that has the time to help us all over here "Get it". Instead of discussing this within a ring of people that are just as blind as you... why not come over here and state your case. That wouldn't be classy now would it but you know what, one of you better get over here and at least speak on its behalf. All this cowering on C5 in the "price" thread is starting to seem a little Anne Frank. I wanna hear about the HPDE events and yes Zfat, CC brakes are not permitted in SCCA Solo, as well as front rotors over 380mm. Have you ever done the math and found out where the z28 would class after all the penalty points are taken into account? Someplace insane where cars use lift-off, one-piece bodies. I occasionally read C5, I feel my biggest fan base is there. Out of the last 4 years, I have never witnessed so much back peddling as I have seen in the last 24 hours. I have also witnessed some alternative realities literally spring up from someones brain and onto the internetssssssss.

Here are a few of some of the funniest comments I seen recently.... enjoy...

samsonite!!! I was way off!!!!

Double the price of the SS and $15K more than the ZL1...

Yeah, seems like a really great value to me

That price seems about right for what you get. Now just waiting on it to be released so we can see what the magazines can do with it. Chevy really has given Camaro folks more than they could ever ask for. We have come a long way from just being happy that the Camaro returned to having all these awesome models to choose from.

Except, customers haven't been choosing Camaro's that much lately.

Well, they told us all along that it would be the most expensive Camaro.
By golly, they were right.

Makes my ZL1 one hell of a bargain.

For $18,000 more, you get 3.8 seconds faster at the Ring... Or, 200 feet.

Yeah I can best we won't see these garage queens on the streets, maybe trailered to car shows and what not...truly sad. Oh yeah and what branch of the "CAMARO ENTHUSIAST" were they aiming for?

Aiming? Yes, enthusiast were surely the target. Would have been nice to actually get an enthusiast car for that price.

Put the Trofeo tires on your ZL1 and you're in the same ballpark as the Z/28.

Ballpark??? I think the ZL1 would be on base with it.

Yeah...$75K.....no thanks. GM reached too high on this one.....the car and the price tag are epic for different reasons. I could see $60-62K, 65K tops....$75K is WAY high IMO.

Trying to not let the bitterness out so good luck to those who are able to put down the coin and get an allocation for a great car. Looks like there will be 1900 of these for sale in 5-10 years with 50 miles on them and garage dust for 125k

Ouch! You lost me at $75,000. The Z/28 will not complete me.

While GM has been putting out so much crap about being true to the original Z28 they seem to have forgotten that the original was a 25% price premium over a base V8. This is over a 100% premium from a base V8. They can keep it.

Burn!!!

In my most honest opinion, ZL1 is the best bang for your buck..not downing the Z/28 but really 85k+ out the door for it?...

It would have posted a faster time if it hadn't been raining on the track when they went.

In reference to the 7:37 Ring time. While they forget the 2 weeks the z28 lapped the Ring with NO RAIN and NO BETTER LAP.

Lol. I'm sure some people see that as a great value. It's just not worth it to me. I'm an enthusiast not a cult member

True words Jamie...

I agree, the cost on new cars is getting rediculous!

Which is also why I must point out, a new 1LE with every single option is north of $48,000 MSRP. Nothing's cheap anymore!

That's impossible. Because every 1LE is only $39,000 that beats every Boss 302.

So you chose a dry sump LS7 that gets worse mileage, has a gas guzzler tax, and adds $8k over a dry sump LS3 which you also already make and meets emission standards with better CAFE numbers.

Kind of a poor argument wouldn't ya say?

Directed at Mr. Settlemire when he brought up CAFE and V8 pricing.

i woke up ..reality check and i stopped dreaming..
i'm happy,for the persons who can afford it.pretty shure they will be even rarer on the streets..
anyway, we have to applaud gm for making /offering a car like this.

if i would have the $$$=z/28 before a vette for me.

As awesome as the Z/28 is, in my eyes AND THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION, that is 2 seater lightweight sports car money, or... 'vette money. I have no doubt it will sell out though and that is what matters.

No doubt this will be an amazing car but 75k seems pretty steep. I wonder how much faster this would be around a track than a z51 vette.

For my money I'd rather have a 1LE if I wanted a backseat and a Vette if I didn't.

Chevy ran both the Z51 Corvette and z28 Camaro, the Corvette was initially reported to be slightly faster than the ZL1 by my personal source close to the track. I imagine the Stingrays Ring time was indeed faster than the z28's 7:37. The Corvette did not release a time which makes me think they won;t until the z can beat it in the Spring.

The problem I see is soon Ford will introduce the new GT350 which will more than likely meet or out-perform the Z-28. I'd be willing to bet it will not be anywhere near the 75k price tag that the Z-28 carries. Sorry GM while you hit a homerun with the ZL1 this car is overpriced by 10k-12k.

I disagree with the ZL1 home run Newmoon.

I hear you...but then it wouldn't be the Z/28 we're all about to experience...and, again, there are valid reasons why the car is equipped as it is...

Lowdown no doubt... Talking about taking the brakes, wheels and tires off for a stripper, stripper by using a 1LE setup. Those components were bandaids and needed to squeeze what they could from the platform.

This is my concern as well. While I don't think the GT350 price will much more affordable; I do think Ford is wringing their hands right now like Burns from the Simpsons saying "Excellent, they published the msrp of the Z/28 and now we can blow it away with the GT350, price and all.

Yep, just like they did with the $54,995 662hp/200mph GT500 shortly after the ZL1 debuted. They love taking the wind out of our sails... you can bet they'll do it again.

You can bet on it...

In my most honest opinion, ZL1 is the best bang for your buck..not downing the Z/28 but really 85k+ out the door for it?...

X2...

Pricing is way too high for what you are getting.

C7 or ZL1 much better cars for the $$...

In 1969, EVERY Corvette variant (except the 2 ZL1-engined versions) was LE$$ expen$ive than the all-aluminum-engined 427 Camaros...

Lowdown trying to justify this involuntary rape.

Don't really see anyone whining except you. And you know how that makes you look, right?

Towards Zfat.

the news of the pricing on this car, without some sort of limited edition collector justification (which would be unheard of in ponycar sales) is just disappointing. the ls7 is at best a 8k$ upgrade. lets add the supercar brakes, say 15k$ that leaves 15k for shocks springs wheels and tires upgrade. not appropriate to the z28 in my opinion.

with a more pragmatic approach to the shocks, springs, brakes of the zl1, appropriate to the camaro line, this car should have sold for 50k. hardly would have been a true competitor to the vette in this range though.

the z28 nameplate implies regular-guy affordability. that marque has been misused.


the z28 is, in my opinion, no better than a gt500. faster around a corner? yes. slower at the dragstrip? yes.

75 k plus another 1k for air conditioning = 76 k plus tax = 80 k, way too much money for a Camaro. Disappointing when you can buy a new vette with the Z51 package for the same money.

Awww yeah!!! I'm lovin' all the positive feedback.

Not if you want a Camaro... the two are completely different cars. Wait until you see the price of the Z06.

The days of the vette always being top dog are over.

Mlee the moderator, so does that mean the Z06 will be cheaper and slower?

Too much money, IMO. In this price range, it's competing with lots of cars that offer performance AND luxury. Even if it lost some weight, this thing is still too damn heavy.

Here pig, pig, pig!!!

they must not want people to buy them,,,,,too much!!!!!!!!!

I'm looking forward to this time next year when there are a hundred threads here on good times at the track instead of threads from people who would never buy a Z/28 in the first place but are determined to "prove" actual buyers must pay ADM...lol. And how the car should have had half it's content cut so it would appeal to the all the same posters who don't track, so that we have yet one more compromised, half-hearted offering on the market.

No wonder very few really cool cars are designed and built in North America, all the hue and outcry from so many wanting something for nothing.

GM is about to produce the only track-focused, track-ready, track-durable, track-warranted car in the world. And all most of you can do is bitch.

Zfat the cheerleader... The attempt was admirable but, Chevy needed to make this car a COMPETITOR. You need to COMPETE to WIN. In response to that post...

Delusional.. or part of GM marketing. Can't tell.

More Zfat...

You would have more credibility if you were to pick specific points and from my post and refute them with facts. How many track days did you do this year in your Mustang? Which road courses? Have you ever done a track day?

Tired of the BS, time to start calling people out.

Good, you can start by calling Chevy out for trying to market a race car to car enthusiast when they knew damn well the car couldn't be sanctioned.

Don't mind the naysayers..... Some people just don't get "it".

Looks like most people aren't getting it Shno.

$75,000!!!! What? GM can certainly charge whatever they want. But $75,000!!!? I like the new Z28 a lot. But for that price...no way. I see a lot of peole saying its a bargain. Really? Sorry I don't see it. You can buy a loaded 2014 Vette for less. Not knocking the car...just knocking the price.

Wow! What can I say, Al that's a little further north of the ZL1 than I expected, about 10k more. Never dreamed of spending over 80k for a car regardless of what it is. After reading all of the post on this thread I would say out of 100% of the guys that planned on getting one it's about 50-50 on who will actually buy one.

Lot of frowns from the average Joes that would buy one if they were closer to the ZL.

I don't like the price but if it will keep the production numbers low and GM will only build less than 3k in a two year span it'll be worth it. But I still think 80k is very pricy for a Camaro.

Another thing GM needs to think about is what will Ford do on pricing their "high end Mustang" Cut the price a little and run some loyal Camaro customers to buying Mustangs? Man I hope not. Don't ruin a good thing GM.

It's already ruined.

ding-ding-ding! We have a winner!

Much of the pot-stirring going on in here is from thinly disguised Dearborn-inclined folks who currently have ZERO to compare with this car, and are likely 15 months away from having an "announced" possibility.

What is the price of a BOSS 302-S? $89,995 PLUS OPTIONS. NO warranty, NO serial number. Can't take to Cars 'n Coffee without the trailer.

15 months??? Uh Oh Joe, someones about to get blindsided. The Boss 302S doesn't have a warranty, if anything, real race cars have factory support OR its up to the shop. You don't get warranty with a race car. You also don't take track focused, race bred, performance cars to Cars and Coffee ya lame...

$75,000.00 huh? At first I thought you wanted sell them. LOL

...seriously, 75K, are you kidding me?

Sometimes I wish things did go differently for some. Old School here and Z284Ever were some of the early pioneers of the Z28 and both were disappointed.

Bit of a difference here.. The 302-S is a classed race car ready for a number of SCCA and NASA race classes. It's not a street legal vehicle at all, it's actually a race car. What classes are the street legal Z/28's spec'd to compete in again?

This is a good question that Joe still hasn't answered. Nor has Zfat...

75 Gs!?!?! Sorry, but that's insane

I think many feel if they would have spoke up sooner, they wouldn't be staring a $75k MSRP down.

$75,000. Seems like the same people making decisions that nearly put GM in bankruptcy are back at the helm. What a disappointment. With that said I'm sure they'll still sell everyone so what do I know.

Only 10% of bankrupt businesses make it passed 10 years. Sales of the 5th Gen Camaro are very poor, especially after the refresh.

The 302S can never, ever, be street legal. The Z/28, no problem.

The 302S is no warranty, for anything. The Z/28 is warranty for street and track use!

The 302S has lower revving, lower HP engine.

Zfat playin the fool again. First, the 302S isn't Street legal but, you could get two different OEM versions. The z28 can never, ever be legal in Motorsport so, I would want to race my race car and not drive it to work. Second, no warranty... Again, this is big boy racing and your shop will use sponsor dollars to fix what is broke. I fugured a real race car driver would know that. 3rd... The Boss 302S can rev, just as high as the LS7 if not higher... I wouldn't be so sure about the power either. They are around 440hp and at 3200lbs, the z28 doesn't stand a chance. With a solid rear axle, the Boss 302S can lap Laguna Seca in 1:32-1:34. The 302R can do it in 1:30 but is restricted to Grand Am's 1:32. Are you kn drugs or just sobbing to the point you can't function.

I know people said the same thing about the ZL1 being covered while racing but I heard some people broke stuff at the track and GM turned them down on the coverage because they were racing.
That tells me it wasn't REALLY warrantied for track use at the end of the day.

This is true, some warranty's are voided due to actual racing, as in competition. If you are doing laps on your own, say even under instruction, they will cover anything that happens to go wrong.

I bet chevy doesn't sell many of them because of the greedy price they are asking. I really hope they get the message, and I hope most people call them on it, instead of caving in like sheep. Yeah its a great car, but have we lost our sense of value?. If we want to pay through the nose they every one say, yes to 75k nod your heads and take it. So are most of you thinking what I am thinking?. or?

A lot of post like this... I see some major disappointment. Keep the faith and what did you get. Next time, listen to me so you can confront these things before they happen.

There is a difference between track use and racing.

Apparently there is now. Chevy found a loop hole for track warranty. Racing is competitive and done with other cars on the field. I'd have to check but, it could be any form of activity that involves a timed event. Track is just driving and learning the track, sometimes with an instructor.

True that.... it's too bad those valid reasons don't include qualifying for known sanctioned events.

Alright, again, people are getting informed and actually questioning the z28 in this area.

Throwing a grenade into a crowd of civilians. Classy.

It's not a race car, it's a track car. Do you not understand that and are parroting the original troll who tried to go in this direction?

So, what "sanctioned event", exactly, are you referring to? The Z/28 will certainly "qualify" for any Track-day/HPDE event in the US, bar none. It'll also run in just about any time-trials event (SCCA TT wants a cage now, CT does not). "Race" events, car-to-car on track, require cages. Caged race cars aren't street legal.

I am so tired of this pathetic made-up BS. WTF is a "known sanctioned event"? Where do you people come up with this generic crap?

Zfat, they come up with this stuff from the rulebooks posted by the governing body. SCCA, IMSA and NASA DO NOT allow the use of carbon ceramic brakes, SCCA doesn't allow a 285mm tire up front, 380mm disc are not permitted in SCCAm The LS7 is restricted to 5.5 liters in IMSA/Grand Am and FIA, Chevy hasn't filed for approval anyway... Not my rules but I'm sure you will ignore this anyway. Have fun playing with yourself... Please link the image of the rulebooks I posted in the beginning of the thread. It clearly states what is required to legally run in ALL classes. He just cannot accept this as fact.

Time to take THIS argument over to your buddy's thread at mustang6g or whatever cave it is he dwells in.

Why don't you come tell me yourself Joe... Afraid to be asked the serious questions about the lying, cheating nature of Team Camaro? How did the GT500 vs. ZL1 work out? I was right wasn't I???

"Known Sanctioned Events" - I'm still trying to come to grips with that one...

Known by who?
Sanctioned by who?
Events hosted where and by who?
Those three words strung together allow for only about a billion possible meanings.

Zfat again, you can't come to grips with this? Any event that takes place in the SCCA, IMSA (Tudor/ALMS/Grand Am), FIA and NASA have rules, within the usual classes, that do not allow a driver to compete in any series, heat or solo event. Sorry, next question... Edit: He eventually changed his tone, he must have found the rulebooks.

This car is built for recreational racing, not competitive racing. That's exactly why I feel it is overpriced.

Yeah and over marketed as such. Over priced, over marketed and no doubt over hyped.

The 2014 Camaro Z/28 at $75,000 over priced, period. It's a Camaro with the same cheap material from 2010. Those who are saying its an amazing price need to stop sippin the kool aid.

FINALLYSAT, I feel ya' Wish I could have help put a stop to that. Ya' can't beat greed...

Well, yesterday I asked my dealer for my deposit back on the one Z/28 allocation they are getting. Having owned a 2010 2SS/RS and a 2012 ZL1. I'm sure the Z/28 is a machine. But that's crazy money boys.

I think my 65 year old mom (who ordered a 1969 Z/28 new back in the day) said it best. "Your dad and I were blue collar folks in 1969. Shame on GM. They have priced the car out of reach for the demographic that made it a success."

I hope at some point I get to ride in one just to see what it's like. I guess I'll look for a another ZL1 or maybe a loaded C7 Corvette.

There are maybe 4 guys reposting pretty much the same hoopla. Canned response to try and get some positive post flowing... Not happening.

Lowdown, Joe, Zfat... You are more than welcome to debate this here... Unless you don't have an argument. then I could see why you would want to avoid thePill. Please see the screen captures of the rulebooks in the beginning of this thread. It clearly states the requirements that prohibit the z28 from being sanctioned by Chevrolet. $75,000 for a recreational track car is stupid, plain and simple. Anyone still talking about this car in any seriousness is... not trying to sound mean but, they are stupid after what is known about the car. Anyone who thinks $75,000 for a recreational track car needs to get ahold of themselves. Your better off getting an SS so at least you can move on to Regional's once you get the experience. The z28 will not allow you to progress past the infant stage.


LOL at the Rookie that shows up with a $75,000 recreation track car with the intentions of blowing everyone away during your private hot laps.

Regardless, enough making fun of you without you being here. I will debate and keep it respectful and clean unless you decide not to do the same.

 

[thePill]

As to what others think of comments made here, let them man-up and call a spade a shovel HERE. Instead of acting like the North Korean shrimp, flappin' gums from afar...

Lowdown has invited me over to Camaro5 to discuss the 2014 z28 there... and I would love to do that. I was banned for having a "secret agenda" two years ago. I would need to have my ban removed so I can debate these topics over there. There are a few moderators that I will not reply to but that was agreed upon before my ban.

I do still extend an invitation to Lowdown, Seven-Oh Joe, Clyde and Zfatuated to bring your arguments here OR, once my ban is lifted, I can bring the argument there. Get me in...

There is someone over there now proclaiming the z28 ran a 7:31 at the Ring. Another person seems to remember that the 7:31 was a damp lap too. Same guy can't recall the 50/50 split between the GT500 and ZL1 in the comparos, still takes a single instance of brake fade as a widespread issue but denies the GT500 beat the ZL1 at Laguna. Yes, DOT3 fluid will boil in California, It will happen, I'm sure the ZL1 wasn't too far behind. No mention of Reven Racing whoopin' Erik's ZL1 on a road course. Team Camaro still claims the ZL1 can run 11's all day, everyday. But, 12.6 is usually the average where the GT500 is a 11.8 car. That isn't an ass whoopin I guess.

If this upset the Pill, he can wait for the promise of the GT-350 while those of us who can get the Z/28 are driving the reality of the now and present Z/28...regardless of what some sanctioning body has to say about it. LOL..honestly...who cares.

Who cares MK? Why Al O. does... He made it aware that they were trying to get a special series sanctioned for the z28 as soon as possible. Do you not remember that? Watch Wide Open Throttle...

the more laps you run, the further the gt falls behind. Any car can be a one lap wonder. Gt brake fade starts to kill lap times the more u run. Not so in the ZL1. this is fact, not opinion.

Please see ZL1 heat soak... Neither supercharged option is a good option for road racing. All ZL1's heat soak, ALL OF THEM DO...

and lets not forget the z/28 ran a 7:31 at the ring on a dry track. The Pill conviently left that point out which eliminates much of his bloviating.

Lets not forget??? I don't remember seeing a 7:31 from a z28 at all. Was there a video?

Edit: For the record, I had the best Camaro Z28 chop on the internet. It looked athletic, like a predator cat... The 2014 looks like Voltron's head.

My 2013 Z28 Concept.

My secret agenda was to take a car that disappointed me and turn it into the car I thought it was. I seen the 2006 Camaro Concept on the cover of a magazine and thought "Wow, this thing looks great". When I test drove the first two in Hawaii, as I walked up to the SS, it dawned on me that this thing had grown. It had also become very toonish, the hips were Betty Boop'd waaaaay too much. The green house seemed comically small. The Camaro's wheelbase was the same as a full size luxury sedan... Yet the interior still felt as if I were in a 4th Gen all over again. Huge on the outside, small on the inside. I was disappointed... It was a Charger to me at that point...

I wanted the greatest challenge and still would help design the 5th Gen and 6th in a heartbeat. I don't have the paper yet, once I am done in Cinni, I will be an Industrial Designer with a Technical Degree in everything OEM and Custom Exterior, Interior and Chassis with Applied Service Management. I am going to Ford, won't stop until I get there. However, a great designer needs to design vehicles he has NO emotional connection to. Redesign a car that you don't care if it lives or dies and get it to sell and look good... That is something I would be interested in... I want to work American for sure... or I would just jump over to any Asian produced vehicle and give it a try.

Edit: Can someone slip this to Doc please? I used that design contest 3rd Gen inspired 6th Gen and merged elements from the C7 into it. I would like to see if Doc is interested in trying to push this color print into a 3D render. If it turns out nice, we might be able to get Chaz and JJ to clean them up later.

Or maybe use some of Brian G's Concept to bring more 5th Gen into the front.

Don't open post them with "thePill" on the top of them. I can't chop right now, my main CPU is down.

 

[thefox]

It's not that the camaro is 'bad', but just its main competitor, the Mustang, is a tick or two better at every price point.
They compromised on making a better car just to achieve the look of the 67-69 camaros at a price point people were willing to pay. Chevy should not have made so many sacrifices to meet a certain exterior design.


My problems with the Camaro:
1. High weight when compared to the mustang.
2. Trunk opening size is laughably small when compared to the mustang.
3. Special nerfed v6 camaro just to hit 30mpg highway. The mustang does not need a special "efficient" v6 model as it gets 31mpg highway with the base car+automatic.
4. The automatic camaro SS has cylinder deactivation and reduced power just so it won't have a gas guzzler tax. The 5.0 mustang automatic does not have these inferior features.
5. Roofline is too long for a convertible. Looks odd whereas the mustang convertible looks normal.
6. ZL1 has horrible mpg when compared to the gt500, even though the gt500 has 100rwhp more.

When comparing the mustang and camaro based on these 6 points alone, the negative aspects of the camaro are a deal breaker for an objective car buyer.


Specific problems of the Z/28:
1. LS7 came out 9 model years ago. I'm having a hard time thinking of a performance car with a virtually unchanged 9 year old engine. This is parts bin engineering. The 9 model year old z06 corvette appears to be a better track car, even without the new race rubber.
2. Tires on the z/28 are not real street tires as they offer very minimal tread and a very short lifespan. pzero trofeo R's also appear to be very hard to find and are about $500 each in 305/30/19.
~$2100 tire changes every 3-5000 street miles is something previously only enjoyed by Ferrari/Lamborghini owners.
http://www.pirelli.com/tire/us/en/car/sheet-motorsport/pzero_trofeo_r.html
3. Their decision to make a stripper performance car(no standard AC, smaller battery, thinner glass, less sound deadening material) is very rare.
I can't think of another car that goes that far in reducing creature comforts. Market research probably says this is a bad idea.

In that camaro5 price thread, I think there's only 1 person who said he's buying one. That is very telling of how small the market is for an OEM $75k recommended for track only camaro.

 

[trolls56]

thePill your 2017 concept chops look much better but brings back alot of 3rd gen mixed with c7.

 

[thePill]

For Chevy's next trick, they will attempt to market two different Ring times for the same vehicle. They intend to send another z28 over to the Ring... Already capitalizing off the previous 7:37, they will no doubt prep another Ringer, cage it, strip it (yes, even more), play with camber, tires and tunes... Send it over to beat their old time and remarket the Ring time...again... for the same car...

What I'm about to type will possibly bring about even more hardships for the z28 once testing starts in Spring. Putting a raw performance car in the hands of timid, inexperienced editors will probably make some of the lap times look on par with the ZL1 and GT500. Randy may get a great time, I doubt Randy will be beating any of his previous laps in a Z06. Which leads me to believe we may see a lot of new tracks being used for the z28. Or at least a track that won't bring about any conflicting lap times between models. This is before the GT350 comes out... I wonder if Chevy will make any attempts at a Pro series z28? I would still like to see at least something close. As they say though, the brakes, suspension, wheels and tires make the z28... Would removing those to compete still make it a z28? What about restrictions on the LS7? Are there any old Z06 5.5 liter LS7's left over? Would that be a feasible option?

Is the SCCA's GTS ZL1 using a Riley 6.2? I think switching the LS7 for a Riley LS3 would defeat the purpose as well.

Will there be any attempt at all to get a z28 in any Pro racing series? With the Boss 302, Ford only replaces the transmission in the 302S and 302R and adds the smaller disc brakes, wheels and adds in the sponsors struts/shocks.

Is Al O. still working on a special series for the z28? Will it race at all or will it just be the badge racing?

thePill your 2017 concept chops look much better but brings back alot of 3rd gen mixed with c7.

I initially thought Camaro fans liked the 3rd Gen, I was wrong. I think the Corvette is doing a lot of things right... I think the Camaro should adopt some Corvette styling. I do love the Brian G. front fascia, something tells me it wouldn't translate well. If you look at the red Camaro concept and the red Corvette, you will see that the B-pillar back are similar in shape and design. This is where I think the Camaro and Corvette should merge elements. However, it would endanger the Camaro of having a 111-112 inch wheel base again. The Corvette has a 106.something wheelbase and has no backseats. The Camaro would have to increase it's wheelbase a bit to add in a usable back row. The Corvette's transaxle takes up more space and I am sure the Camaro won't use a transaxle. Still though, you will need a good 5 extra inches between the wheels.

 

[thefox]

None of those race engines will ever be put into a street legal OEM car.

I think the target market is a middle to upper class blue collar person who has the above average means and subjective desire to own a high performance and rare version of a common mans car. It really is in a segment all its own.

For someone who wants a high performance chevy, this seems to be a far more economical and better starting platform with comparable real world track results and far better daily driver ability.

2014 Corvette Stingray Coupe 1LT with Z51 Performance Package
MSRP from $53,800
Magnetic Selective Ride Control $1,795
Performance exhaust $1,195
Competition Sport bucket seats $2,495
Destination Freight Charge $995
Total MSRP $60,280

 

[trolls56]

Yeah only problem with the camaro looking more like the vette and making the camaro smaller like they keep talking about you will basically just have 2 Corvettes. I have a hard time trying to figure out Chevy though even more now that they have a Camaro more expensive than Corvette. Seems like they are taking away their own customers from each other. The red c7 vs red concept look very much alike minus nose/grill.

 

[Grimace427]

Ford was using the Boss 302S to benchmark the 2015 GT against... That is a 1:32-1:36 at Laguna Seca boys... I personally get excited when I think about the Mustang being based on the race car.

Benchmarked against the racecar? That's the first I heard of that. How would that work anyway, put both on race tires or street tires?

 

[thePill]

LOL! It looks like the regular members have eliminated all opposition in the "price" thread and is now just a 5-6 man support group. Even some of the councilors showed up to calm everyone down with a whole lot of numbers and dollar signs... There is even a guy over there that has invented a new sport he calls "tracking". You know, an open track event for any and all ages and skill set as well as vehicles. No competing, no racing, no passing, no time... It is basically an open track tour... Apparently, this is what the z28 was actually made for. This was completely my fault as I was unaware of this new pass time and spoke before I knew about tracking. Personally, I still find all the hardcore components on the z28 unnecessary if tracking was the only true intention. What happened to the seek and destroy mission of the original? The Z/28 was a road racing champion... I don't see the z28 filling in anywhere at the Regional or Divisional level. No American Sedan Classes, You certainly won't see the z28 in the Pony Car series. The 5th Gen hasn't even shown up for the American Iron Series, it is a Semi-Pro class though.

If the z28 is a pure-recreational car for casual track days, I don't think any of that equipment is needed. I think the SS would have been a great choice if it wasn't for random side airbag deployment.

Anyway, as I said... They have verbally abused the last member that actually had doubts about the cost to build... It is pretty much just the 5 people talking each other up, trying to find a purpose for the z28 as Zfat did. Lots more justifications on the sky high MSRP that is indeed inflated.

Now they are, as I said, about to remarket new Nurburgring times for the z28... They have now eliminated that 7:37 and are using the 7:31 as fact. What a sad little bunch. I don't have to tell anyone how many people the MSRP upset. Certainly, there are many that view racing and Motorsport VERY IMPORTANT. These people have literally trying to shoehorn the z28 into a class for months. One guy has separated "tracking" into it's own sport in order to make himself feel better. Al O. seems to think that GM Performance and Team Camaro need to sanction a class for the z28 so... it seems pretty important to the Chief Engineer.

Benchmarked against the racecar? That's the first I heard of that. How would that work anyway, put both on race tires or street tires?

We don't know that yet, I believe I heard they were using some tire if I remember correctly. If a GT is hanging with a Boss 302S, the z28 is in serious trouble... A Boss 302S is equal to a Buttermore Z06 in T1... The z28 is NOT faster than a Buttermore Z06.

While Zfatuated's "tracking" definition for the z28 may seem silly, it is in fact the most accurate marketing description placed on the 2014 z28 to date. It is the truth... The z28 is literally confined to such limited activities. Now, we must convince buyers that not only is this cars purpose extremely limited, the content equipped on the car is worth the $75,000 and actually needed for such a casual activity.

Don't let them distract you from the issues expressed by their members, not just me. The high MSRP, Do the parts add up to $75,000?, Streetability, The Rulebooks and it's Competitiveness... Drag racing... Cheating at the Ring, Cheating at Milford, the 7:37, two marketed Ring runs (lame)...



...and the GT350...


Weight??? Did they say 3840lbs? That is heavier than a GT500.

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