2014 Z28 Assault Thread.

[thePill]

I agree, a base C7 can't be beat for the price... The Z51 package could be dropped if you plan on doing your own work. The only car that could possibly rival a base or Z51 is an NA GT350. Even then, we would have to look at the MSRP for both, performance and eventually production numbers. The C7 is the GT of its class, if I ran again, It would be impossible to shop elsewhere in the $50-60k range.

The last open track I attended was Hockenheim. Even in Germany, you didn't see an overwhelming amount of serious cars. I was pointing out to Norm that when there are serious cars out, they have competitive intentions... they are usually not touring. I agree with you, I do not see many serious guys attending open track. It is the amateur (I should say beginner) element that turns many off.

In my opinion, the z28 is worthless. No road racing, no competition, no solo or AutoX, No drag racing, no Mustang vs. Camaro... No AC, No radio or speakers. Maybe it will be a really smooth ride on the street. After all of this, it's possible that the z28 is a very well rounded car. It could possibly be a great street car. I would say it is a risky long term investment as far as collecting goes. The original Z/28's go for how much? I don't see these doubling in value like a FGT...

You can see that Team Mustang and Team Camaro have their heads in different places. It seems Ford for the most part, has decided to push the Mustang heavily in racing. You can see OEM decisions being made to keep customers and racing together. With a supercharged Z06, I really question if it bothers them.

Look at it this way fella's... The Camaro has been racing for going on 6 seasons... It hasn't made an impact ANYWHERE. What makes anyone think Chevy is eager to dump money into the Camaro program in Motorsports? They had ZERO return... Be smart, save money.

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[Norm Peterson]

Norm, Ford decided to use a 15 inch disc because it is the largest size you can run in organized motorsport. Exactly 15 inches equals 381mm, I think you will come to find out that the Mustang's disc are just shy of 15 inches... It will be the SCCA maximum of 380mm, so like 14.90 inches. Ford will need approval for anything over 355mm but, a waiver is granted up to 380mm... Ford has already been approve for this.

They are building the GT and GT350 right up to the rulebook wall this time.

Thanks for the thoughts, and let's hope it plays out that way . . . although it wouldn't be all that tough to turn a silly mm off the OD of an iron disc if there was something else going on . . .


Norm

 

[Agarc]

In my opinion, the z28 is worthless. No road racing, no competition, no solo or AutoX, No drag racing, no Mustang vs. Camaro... No AC, No radio or speakers. Maybe it will be a really smooth ride on the street. After all of this, it's possible that the z28 is a very well rounded car. It could possibly be a great street car. I would say it is a risky long term investment as far as collecting goes. The original Z/28's go for how much? I don't see these doubling in value like a FGT...

it has one speaker so you can hear the chime incase you didnt close the door all the way lol =P

 

[thePill]

Just confirmed via Hot Rod, the GT w/R package uses a 380x34mm front disc. The GT is equipped with the largest disc brakes allowable in SCCA/FIA. The direction of the GT/R (lol) was aimed directly at entry level Motorsports... The GT will be widely accepted where the z28 is not. That was a missed opportunity for the z28 and I assure you THIS very topic will be used against the z28 for advertising purposes. The GT350 will be the one to run from...

Imagine if the z28 could class, and possibly along side the new GT.

$35,000 vs. $75,000? It is a silly comparison as is, the z28 twice the money and the GT could be sanctioned (not racing) next month.

 

[thePill]

Wow, that $75,000 MSRP is drawing some heavy fire from it's own Camaro faithful. I think those that continue to defend the decision are running out of ammo, from an endless stream of legitimate questions.

Before I start, in the great tradition of debate, I invite anyone that has a supporting argument in favor of the 2014 "Z/28", here. It appears the more I prove a point, the less Camaro enthusiast are enthusiastic to set foot in here. Although, a majority of C5 members that have read the thread have merely changed their stance once facts were presented. That is the normal way to handle that...

Now that the Motorsport argument has been handily won (If linking the rule book is winning), we can move on with the assault. As I mentioned above, there are members there now posing some serious questions. I admit, some members may just be spiteful or extremely disappointed in the z28 and some of the "rubbing their nose in it" may subside.

One question, or concern, is a valid one. If performance and track times are the main objective here, why not acquire the vastly superior C7 for $15-20,000 less? The Corvette is in fact a far greater, legal and highly competitive option when compared to the z28. I have asked the question before, both Z51 and z28 were at the Ring at the same time and still no Corvette "Official" times yet. Kinda strange since it is the first car available to the public, wouldn't that tidbit be useful. I'm sure Chevy spends a pretty penny on Ring runs on a closed track, I think the Corvette's time should have been released. Why hasn't it??? While many could rush to believe the Corvette Z51 couldn't post a good time, the issue is, the Z51 Corvette currently has a better time recorded.

Since I am eventually going to talk about the ol' Money Pit's lap times, I will start here... Remember thePill had his own "Guy in the bushes", few of you Facebook friends seen when this request went out. I was the one that brought you the z28's top speed at the track, I think over a month in advanced. Initially, we had the z28 clocked slightly slower than the ZL1. It was in this very thread... Eventually, Team Camaro let loose the info that they were there, in session, for two full weeks. The z28 went on to finally beat the ZL1's time, in the rain, and of course, they advertised it. Nevermind the z28 couldn't do any better the two weeks it was there, they just so happened found some extra magic that day I guess. Funny how "extra magic" always finds it's way into the Camaro when Nurburgring lap times are involved. The ZL1 also took it down to the wire.

The Z51 Corvette on the other hand, has already bested the ZL1's time. That's right, the current Z51 Corvette is sitting on a faster Ring time than the z28 recorded. Letting this loose now would be trouble...

What to do???

Naturally, they go back, spend twice the money, do probably ZERO tuning or R&D and, get this, there is no guarantee it will beat the 7:37, OR the Corvette. It was said, the z28 ran a 7:31. It was only a gentleman's agreement that they not record while other manufacturers were sharing the track. Okay, I get it, you have no proof... However, what about the 30+ Solo laps or shared laps with the Corvette? They were recorded, still, no sub-7:37. They suggest the 7:31 lap was done during traffic, yet, during 30 laps, rain or shine, they couldn't record anything faster than the lucky 7:37. Funny how that is always the case.

SVT accidentally released raw video footage of the GT500 lapping the Ring in 7:39. This number really begins to degrade the z28's MSRP. It's possible that they didn't intend on going back until the GT500 showed up... Well, I wouldn't say showed up, more like laid his hand down. The GT500 ran that lap on it's 49th Birthday I believe... Happy Birthday.

However, once the GT500's run was over, naturally, they wanted a full parts listing, pics, video, interior shots, drivers name, tire tread... and so on...

Personally, these demands make me happy... We didn't get to see the ZL1 or z28's equipment, although, they were both caged, probably tuned, gased, gutted and tires shaved. But that's okay... I expect a complete parts listing, pics and even detailed video of the car next time the z28 runs the Ring. That is what your fans require, make it happen.

First of all, the next Ring time won't be released (or even run) until Spring/Summer next year. Months after the z28 release... Can you say blotched?

Here is the major concern though. Team Camaro has had the GT500 in their business pretty deep. The '13 has cause catastrophic damage to the Camaro ZL1's marketing and, performance between the two are almost out of class. The z28 also fell victim to some territorial pissings, when the GT500 laid down a similar lap time while the z28 was still fresh out of clay. Team Camaro wants you to believe the z28 is capable of a 7:31, they probably got the number the same way C5 members did... Subtract the time it rained from the actual lap time.. Ta Da!!!! 7:31...

I fear that this next run will be a blatant ringer, prepped far from OEM to get the lap done and get out. This folly has already cost the project more than enough.

With Team Camaro's track record, as far as broadcasting performance goes, I anticipate cheating... They say "THEY ARE NOT DONE" with the z28. If it isn't done, why are you advertising that the z28 is 3 seconds faster than the ZL1? How would you know if you are not done yet? Why even mention that until your done?

Because you are done and have been done with the car for some time. Continuing this pitiful marketing experiement needs to end. This is probably one of the most embarrassing moments in Pony Car history.

The car is overpriced for the only smidgeon of info they have given.... Are they seriously trying to sell a $75,000 car with only a 7:37 lap time on a track that nobody races at. Not only that, the car is admittedly only built for Open Track days and not for real racing. They call this Touristenfahrten at the Ring...

While I agree, the 2014 z28 was specifically built for Touristenfahrten. However, when it comes to big boy racing, the z28 is just a fart in the general direction.

Edit: Team Corvette is ready to show the C7.R Corvette in a few days. I know this concept escapes the Camaro but, the C7 intends to race this season. Where is the Z/28.R?

Oh, your not going to offset the cost of the z28's Research and Development program by using your resources in Motorsports? Okay, just checking... because Mustang and Corvette see a significant advantage by doing this. This time, the GT looks to be entry level, not the Boss 302.

 

[thePill]

The 2014 z28 will be making it's IMSA GS class debut at Daytona. Chevy has been approved to use the LS7 but will most likely inherit a weight penalty.

As I said, the out going 6.2 was impotent where GS is concerned. This z28 looks like a manufacturer entry and not the Riley Camaro as before. The brakes, suspension and transmission has been updated.

It's not reverse engineered, but at least it's a step forward... 7 liters shouldn't be required in a class like GS but, after 5 seasons... I think they are desperate for a championship.

Would it have been too much to ask for a notch below the z28 Carbon for SCCA and NASA?

Edit: The 5.0 GT.R could very well be the z28's GS competition. This may lead to more GT vs. z28 comparisons like the 80s and 90s.

 

[thePill]

The rulebook should be out soon...

The z28 is using a 400hp LS7 (lol) and has had a slight increase in race weight. The size of the intake restriction should be finalized soon.

 

[Fenderaddict2]

OH CRAP...

Chevy Camaro Z/28.R: The Pony Car Racer Is Back And It's Badass

The original Camaro Z/28 was designed as a race car first and a road car second. The 2014 Camaro Z/28 is a road car, but it will be hitting the track. And its first race is Friday.

Chevrolet says that the Camaro Z/28.R is almost totally production based, running the same LS7 V8 as in the Z/28 road car along with aero bits like the front splitter, rear spoiler, hood extractor, belly pan, and the rockers and front tire deflectors.

This is a real stock car as far as Chevy is concerned, with numerous components shared with the stock, road-going Z/28. The only changes are to an endurance spec suspension and series-mandated safety equipment. Not that it's a miracle that cars like this exist, Porsche has been doing it for ages. It's just great to have the Z/28 name back on track.

The Z/28.R will run in the GS class of the IMSA Continental Tire SportsCar Challenge, which has its first race this Friday at Daytona.

http://jalopnik.com/chevy-camaro-z-28-r-the-pony-car-racer-is-back-and-it-1505698780

 

[thePill]

OH CRAP...

I want to say the LS7 will be strong in this series but with 400hp and 3400lb race weight, I'm not sure. The z28 will be made to take on an additional 100lbs and be limited to a maximum output of 405hp. For referance, the outgoing GS.R Camaro had a 3300lbs race weight and a 400hp output as well.

They should have just used the 6.2 and saved that 100lb penalty.

The Engine, Aero and some of the axles are carried over from the 2014 z28...

The CC brakes, F1 shocks, 305's, most suspension and the transmission have been changed.

So much for IMSA's new Showroom Stock GS class...

THIS IS A Z/28...

What your about to purchase, is not. This Z/28 was engineered from the 2014 z28. It is a plain Jane LS7 Camaro, more in line with the original. Why they didn't engineer the car from the series to save money is a good question.

The displacement is already earning them an intake restriction and a heavier race weight... Same horsepower, same suspension (class required), same wheel/tires, different trans and engine... At least it's a better attempt than the ZL1 in SCCA GTS. If you can't win with a 7 liter engine, your hopeless... and also probably Jack Roush food...

This is the best time for the Z/28 to run, during most of Team Mustang's changeover...

This is going to be a good year for thePill... and also proves an old point. In order for Chevy and the Camaro to be competitive with the other cars in it's class, it has no other choice but to go with a larger engine.

 

[thePill]

God, does the Z/28.R look retarded with Autozone fender flares in an 285/18 inch wheel/tire. Looks like a pig in ruby slippers...

Hurray!!! The 2014 z28 has come to save us from the Boss 302, same car that was developed in 2009... During the season. Well, well... If I didn't tell you I told you so before, here it comes again...

Where's the Multimatic F1 coil-overs?
Where is the Carbon Ceremic Brakes?
Where are the 15 inch disc?
Where are the Super Sticky, 305 boxed Pirelli's? (Which pretty much makes the z28)

I'm glad at least the LS7 made it (because they need it) but here is the downer boys... and I hate being a downer...

The GS class Z/28.R will be limited to about the same output the M3 and Boss 302 are at... NO, not OEM 414hp-444hp... I am talking restricted AND, the GS classes maximum 405hp. Whike Chevy was busy NOT being competitive in this class, Porsche, BMW and Ford have been at each others throats. This is where the Boss and M3's Rev limiter came from, this is where the HUGE 60mm restrictors came from, the reason Porsche dumped millions into the US Motorsports program.

Oh wait, you do remember Porsche right? The ones Team Camaro called out, AKA THE GT3... Hmmmm.... You better put your money where your mouth is now dumbass...

Porsche and BMW complain, Ford does too... It happens. This is when there was a Turbo 3.6 I6, a 4.0 V8 and a 5.0. All pretty much within 2 liters of each other... Wonder what Porsche will say when a 7 liter Z28 decides they finally want a crack at the defending champions? Especially with a 2 liter advantage over the largest classed engine (Not talking Soda Pop liters fat boys). This is the z28's development year, this won't be the breakout I think everyone wants... The car is STILL under development and I believe adheres to a standard, I could be wrong.

Before we try and predict what Porsche will do, we need to compare the marketed 2014 z28 to the race classed Z/28.R. Chevy wants you to believe it is the "Closest" it will ever be to OEM... Beware z28 buyers, CHEVY IS WRONG AGAIN.

In a moment, we will begin to disect the Z/28.R on what we know, and compare it to the 2014 z28 you can order shortly. Again remember, Chevy wants the Boss's glory but has not done any of the reverse engineering. The 2012 Boss 302 was a direct result of the 2009/2010 "Boss GT" in Grand Am's GS. These guys are literally STILL working on the Z/28.R BUT, are readily available to market it as Ford did with the Boss 302.

(cont...)

 

[Pablo GT350]

what, you don't believe the spin?

http://www.worldcarfans.com/114012169057/chevrolet-camaro-z28r-revealed-for-the-imsa-continental

you mean to say it doesn't even have the Multimatic shocks?

 

[thePill]

what, you don't believe the spin?

http://www.worldcarfans.com/114012169057/chevrolet-camaro-z28r-revealed-for-the-imsa-continental

you mean to say it doesn't even have the Multimatic shocks?

Set to be campaigned by Stevenson Motorsports and CKS Autosport in the GS class of the IMSA Continental Tires SportsCar Challenge, the Z/28.R is described as one of the "most production-based competitors on the track. (Bold statement)" As a result, the race car has the same aerodynamics package as the road-going model. The car has also the same limited-slip differential and 7.0-liter V8 engine as the production model.
According to Chevrolet Racing Director Mark Kent, “Apart from series-mandated equipment and the specialized suspension components needed for endurance racing, the Z/28.R is asclose to a production-spec race car as you’ll find. (the Boss 302 DeJa Vu, I guess the Boss, M3, 911 and WRX doesn't count)"
Chevrolet's Lisa Talarico added, "The new Camaro Z/28.R is a significant advancement from the GS.R that won multiple races (A laughable 6 wins in 5 season) in the Continental Tire SportsCar Challenge the last three years (first 2 seasons were fruitless, this is why only 3 seasons are mentioned). We expect the new engine package, suspension components and aerodynamic improvements to help our teams to further successes in the 2014 GS class."

Source: GM with thePill's help

Okay, the engine, rear-end and... that's about it when it comes to the CLOSEST. Here is a HUGE shocker, the outgoing Camaro GS.R shared the LS3, transmission, rear-end, some OEM suspension components with the 2010 Camaro SS? It wasn't permitted to us the "SS.R" moniker because, it was far from stock.

Here is the most important components the Z/28.R shares with the pitiful 2014 z28. The Aerodynamics and lame fender flares (Auto Zone) so that is appears to be an OEM offering. They also made sure the "Z/28" was on there... Like the ZL1 in SCCA GTS, this is basically a badge placed over the existing Camaro GS.R... It has a new engine sure... Lets get into that shall we?

The Camaro GS.R produced 400hp (405hp is class maximum), NOW, with more revs, air flow, fuel delivery and displacement, this LS7 is going to be reduced to SUB-400 HORSEPOWER levels.

I mentioned this a while ago, that merely placing a larger engine into this class will not net you any gains. NONE, NADDA... It is the same weight and output as the GS.R. All the z28 OEM equipment has been removed as I warned months ago. This is just an LS7 GS.R...

Despite all of this, I believe the Stevenson GS.R from last year will return with Bell driving while Team Camaro figures out how to market this thing.

This is the Z/28.R's DEVELOPMENT SEASON, you won't likely be seeing any real progress in the ranks until the Z/28.R's Maiden Season, after restrictons have been decided on. One thing is for certain, this is nowhere near OEM, the old GS.R was closer to the SS than the Z/28.R is to the z28. Another confirmation would be the Camaro GS.R ran practice on 3 and 4 January, those that ran are the competitive hopefuls, anything after is development season. You need to attend the practices in order to score points during the race, this is also not confirmed... OEM dealings are usually secret.

As soon as the Z/28.R is classed properly, Ford will unleash the GT (YES, GT, I think the GT350 is going up to GT classes but not sure yet.)

Ford will surely pull a stunt here and sanction the GT.R against the Z/28.R, just to make it look inferior. What about the BIG BAD 1LE? Still in T2? No? It's GONE??? Booooooooooooo.....

That's all they have FoMoCo, you are clear to let info fly now...

ONLY 2 major components are shared, the LS7 and the Rear differential.. That doesn't qualify for shit in my book, and my book is read and accepted more than Team Camaro's (that's actually a shame). The 2012 Boss 302 did not get the Boss 302.R1's wheels and tires (option for the S from Ford Racing), Class specific strut/spring and the TR6060 from the GT500 (Still an OEM transmission)...

What do I care, Camaro fans don't really care about organized racing...

 

[All-Or-Nothing]

Ha Ha......so this race car might even be slower than the regular z28.....LOL

 

[RedRex06]

I read all of this. Dear sweet Jesus, I read it all...

Great read. Neat tidbit is that I was selling cars when the new Coyote engine came out, and that was ALOT of fun... I went and mystery shopped a Chevy dealership and their Camaro, and was fed a line that the only reason the new 5.0 kept up with the new Camaro was because it was supercharged from the factory. That dude held his ground, too, insisting that the base GT had a blower and the Camaro was all that... blah blah blah...

That's my contribution. Chevy lies

 

[FATTBoss]

Placing such a large restrictor on the LS7 could lead to the same problems the Boss 302S faced in competition, overheating due to leaning out. The Ford teams all parked in protest, and were soon allowed a break. Regardless of limiting it's power, the car should have an advantage in torque over it's rivals, which would negate it needing to rev very high at all.

A friend running in the Roar has told me the Stevenson cars are very fast, and may be adjusted yet again before the race.

The sad thing is that all the restrictions negate any comparison between it and it's competitors, as well as the street version of the Z/28.

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