2.9L whipple surging

[Superman15]

The owner/installer at the speed shop where my Whipple was installs tells me he can absolutely dyno tune the car "properly" and eliminate the driveability issues. But he is also the same person trying to sell me a custom dyno tune... so his opinion is not exactly unbiased. And it's not all that cheap of resolution option.

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[Superman15]

When I talked with Whipple tech last month it was explained to me that the they think it's possibly a timing issue or variance in timing set from the factory. They said that some cars have been found to differ in timing as much as 5 degrees and this can screw with the calibration they have set for all vehicles. In other words since some of could have a variance in base timing from what they made the calibration for it could be cuasing this stumble.

Makes sense. But what do they do? If there can be that variance, it almost has to be a tune-by-car application doesn't it?

 

[Roh92cp]

Makes sense. But what do they do? If there can be that variance, it almost has to be a tune-by-car application doesn't it?

Not sure how they will accomplish this, but I will bet they know how and will have a resolution soon.

 

[Whipple SC]

When I talked with Whipple tech last month it was explained to me that the they think it's possibly a timing issue or variance in timing set from the factory. They said that some cars have been found to differ in timing as much as 5 degrees and this can screw with the calibration they have set for all vehicles. In other words since some of could have a variance in base timing from what they made the calibration for it could be cuasing this stumble.

Not engine timing, cam timing. These new phasers vary far more than previous years and detecting exact cam position is not as accurate as some think. We added new logic to the F150's to better detect cam position and correct variances, we are adding this to the Mustang.

 

[Obsol3te]

Not engine timing, cam timing. These new phasers vary far more than previous years and detecting exact cam position is not as accurate as some think. We added new logic to the F150's to better detect cam position and correct variances, we are adding this to the Mustang.

If it's a timing issue wouldn't others be complaining of this same surging?

 

[Superman15]

If it's a timing issue wouldn't others be complaining of this same surging?

I believe the issue here is that some of us random ones roll out of the dealer with a cam timing variance that is outside of the "normal" range that is accounted for in the Whipple calibration. The vast majority of the Mustangs are rolling out of the dealer within the cam timing range expected by Whipple. Therefore us guys outside that range, are seeing some isolated issues. And I am sure it is hard testing on this, as it is only a random small amount of owners so far experiencing this. So i'd bet that finding a test car has been challenging.

 

[Obsol3te]

If that's the case, you're not worried about a one tune fits all application?

 

[Superman15]

If that's the case, you're not worried about a one tune fits all application?

Agreed. As I posted that question in post #17

 

[Superman15]

But as Dustin is saying, they are adding new logic to the cal to better detect cam timing, to better adapt to it.

 

[Whipple SC]

I believe the issue here is that some of us random ones roll out of the dealer with a cam timing variance that is outside of the "normal" range that is accounted for in the Whipple calibration. The vast majority of the Mustangs are rolling out of the dealer within the cam timing range expected by Whipple. Therefore us guys outside that range, are seeing some isolated issues. And I am sure it is hard testing on this, as it is only a random small amount of owners so far experiencing this. So i'd bet that finding a test car has been challenging.

This is 100% correct, thank you.

 

[Whipple SC]

If that's the case, you're not worried about a one tune fits all application?

I think it's been proven, when the tune is done in the way ours is done with the advanced engineers and calibration tools, it does work. We've got more PD kits out there than anyone else and far more sophisticated logic added to the software than anyone else. There is a reason everyone bolts on and goes without custom tuning.

As for cam variance, how would a custom tuner even know this? You can data log the position, but that lies the problem, it's telling you where it thinks it is, not where it actually is. If you don't have logic to detect when those readings are off, then one would never know. And then, how do you adjust, 1 cam, 2, 3 or 4? What happens if debris on the cam is causing it to be off and the debris moves? These are all things that are happening in the engines every minute, we already have logic in there for this, but we have gotten more advanced in detecting and correcting to be even more accurate.

 

[CDawsonAR]

I also had the surge and wondered if anyone dyno'ed their car? I know the stage I kit is supposed to be 700hp and wanted to know if anyone is also short on the HP numbers that also has the surging issue.

 

[Whipple SC]

I also had the surge and wondered if anyone dyno'ed their car? I know the stage I kit is supposed to be 700hp and wanted to know if anyone is also short on the HP numbers that also has the surging issue.

We know of nobody low on power. The transition spot had nothing to do with peak power.

 

[ETCH]

Does anyone know when Whipple may release the new tune to address the issues we are discussing?

 

[ETCH]

Restrictor

I received the restrictor from whipple but it did not come with any install instructions. does anyone have a PDF they can post please...

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