1st Oil Change Mileage

[GT Pony]

I had the first oil change at 7500 miles. I got a sample of the oil analyzed.

The higher than average metal counts is probably due to the break-in. Those should go way down if you test the 2nd oil fill after running it the same mileage I would think.

I'm just wondering if having much higher levels of these metal particles increases engine wear much? I think that's why most people do the 1st oil change early.

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[Tim Hilliard]

I have taken more samples of engines that cost much more and had face to face conversations with engineers from oil company's. Trending is all that matters, most oils are very good, I don't get too carried away with over changing, the factory blended oil is very good. Normal street use follow the manual.

 

[stangdan26]

^ why don't people listen to Tim??? I like most of you spend a lot of time on here and from things Tim has said he is without a doubt the most authoritative subject matter expert on this in this forum. These constant threads re hashing this topic are akin to bashing your head against the wall expecting a positive outcome. We post for advice on here on any number of topics and often take advice or opinions of people whose education on said topic is only as good as their last Google search because it aligns with our "gut".

Change your first oil at 1000 miles or whatever because it makes you feel better and own the decision for nothing other than peace of mind (like I did lol) but we all need to stop trying to justify the decision as necessary because the simplest of searches on here or anywhere else will return enough factual evidence from testing and subject matter experts like Tim to tell you it's not necessary at all.

Sorry to seem like a curmudgeon here but seriously....

On a separate topic, I saw an ad from Monroe today that said I need to change my shocks and struts every 30,000 miles and I'm really concerned that I've been going my whole life replacing them when they wear out.....

Ah - the beauty of marketing. ;)

......steps down from soap box

 

[stangdan26]

Disclaimer - Tim if you aren't the guy that builds the massive power generation engines with sick tolerances that cost $$$$$ then correct me but I'm thinkin you posted that at some point and I don't feel like looking to verify

 

[m6pwr]

The higher than average metal counts is probably due to the break-in. Those should go way down if you test the 2nd oil fill after running it the same mileage I would think.

I'm just wondering if having much higher levels of these metal particles increases engine wear much? I think that's why most people do the 1st oil change early.

The principal wear metal to worry about in uoa's is iron. If it gets too high, the oil can become abrasive to the softer metals in the engine. The same is true of silicon IF it comes from dirt ingested because of poor air filtration or a leak in the intake tract somewhere (this rarely happens and what silicon you see in most uoa's is from gaskets and sealants and that is totally harmless).

SO IRON IS THE BIG BUGABOO. How much iron? Most oil analyses labs and reliability engineers use 150 - 200 ppm iron as a safe limit (there is still a safety margin built into that figure). I think Blackstone at one time used 300 ppm iron (at least I've seen that in their uoa comments). When you get iron that high you need to shorten the drain interval to be on the safe side.

I've never ever seen on BITOG or any of the car owner forums a uoa of the factory drain that was anywhere near those limits. The highest I've ever seen on any uoa was on a VW diesel run to a 30,000 mi drain interval - the ppm iron was 127. This was on a TDI used in daily courier service in Paris.

The most often repeated myth/legend/superstition passed down from father to son on owner forms is that you need to drain the factory fill early (way earlier than the stupid mfr requires) in order to "wash out harmful wear metals from break-in".

I was once told by an oil exploration engineer that we are driving toward a brick wall at 90 mph and don't know it - meaning that one day soon we're going to exhaust the world's oil reserves. Look at how we are already scraping the bottom of the barrel: drilling in the arctic; blasting (fracking) oil free from shale and rock formations with toxic chemicals that get into the ground water (and our drinking water); refining fuels and lubes from tar sands dissolved and transported in toxic and explosive chemicals.

Repent! The end is near. Or at least don't drain that oil from your Mustang so soon.

 

[GT Pony]

I've always been an "early changer" on the first oil change to some degree - meaning earlier than what the owner's manual says. Based on the UOA on the factory fill at ~7,500 miles that Tony Alonso posted above (post #60), and the comments made by Anthony at Blackstone, it seems to make a little sense to drop the factory fill a bit early due to the high metal particle counts. Not sure if excessive metal particulate matter would increase engine wear, or maybe it works as a "lapping compound" to seat everything in better (?). IMO, changing the factory oil at around 2500 ~ 3000 miles would be reasonable.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=592635&postcount=161

 

[Cars_1959]

Another old school follower, 1000 miles for sure for the fist oil change.

 

[jc1804]

I'm old school also, with the low cost of an oil change why not change early. cant hurt & if something (not likely) & if the engine had something in it its now removed

 

[Tim Hilliard]

Show of hands:

1. Who has sampled oil over life of their Mustang and had any result that caused an alarm that wasn't corrected by an oil change?
2. Of those people who sample their oil, who sends a sample of the new oil before it goes in the engine so the lab has an accurate baseline to comment on your used oil results? <<<Trick Question
3. Anyone ever have an engine failure in A MUSTANG (1990 upwards) directly related to oil? I.E. Proven to be caused by oil failing to work as designed and or related lack of changing oil. I am not referring to bad tunes lifting heads, fuel dilution, blocks splitting in half etc. Strictly the prescribed amount of oil failing to do it's job at any point (Not a bad oil sample result, a bad engine result)

I await the numerous responses of those that can follow directions.

 

[Tony Alonso]

The higher than average metal counts is probably due to the break-in. Those should go way down if you test the 2nd oil fill after running it the same mileage I would think.

Correct.

I'm just wondering if having much higher levels of these metal particles increases engine wear much? I think that's why most people do the 1st oil change early.

A buddy of mine who works for Ford has mentioned to me that he has not heard of Coyote engines having wear problems. Of course, without tracking a particular unit over its lifetime, the definitive answer is not there. I have never had any of my engines torn down to look at them, so I can only report what I observed - no oil consumption, no perceived loss of power, no mechanical failures, no peculiar noises.

I used to be a 'change it every 3000 miles' person (even when I used Mobil 1 many years ago) on past vehicles. Unless I was taking my car to the track and running it under high heat cycles, I plan on sticking with the normal intervals.

I know some folks might cringe at that, but every one of my past Mustangs (highest mileage one was in the 76,000 mile range) ran nicely. Again, I daily drive them as transportation.

 

[Tim Hilliard]

I'm just wondering if having much higher levels of these metal particles increases engine wear much? I think that's why most people do the 1st oil change early.

I've seen engines destroy themselves during a failure, visible metal everywhere and after repairs a new filter and oil the next oil sample come back clean and the filter catch some of it. A filter has to allow something to pass otherwise nothing would pass, including the oil. What shows up in a sample is wear metals, objects small enough to remain suspended in the oil, pass through the filter and pass through the engine oil passages including bearing surfaces. I have never seen materials in an oil sample cause a failure. Most bearing wear (more accurately DAMAGE) is usually caused by lack of oil film, occasionally you will see where a particle made it through a bearing and left a visible mark, which of course the soft bearing material did it's job and captured the foreign object. Objects big enough to see that make it through to the bearings are typically caused by a dirty environment during assembly of the engine or debris entering the clean side of the oil filter DURING AN OIL SERVICE. Oil filters have a bypass valve that allow full flow (non-filtered oil) to flow through engine at all times. Why you let your engine idle and warm before driving it hard (or raising rpm and oil flow--->pressure) Most bearing damage is caused by 'dry starts' and that rarely is noticeable upon teardown. You may see some marking in the bearing but you have no idea when it may have happened. Everytime you install a dry empty new filter you delay full oil pressure to the bearings to provide the protective layer the crank/rod ride on. This is why when you start up an engine after an oil change the oil light stays on for what seems like forever. All manufacturers frown upon filling filters and if you were, you need to fill the dirty side of the filter (try it, good luck) to maintain compliance of contamination control. I bring this up for all you "OLD SCHOOL" over-oil changers, you are doing more damage making yourself feel better. The old opinion that oil is cheap insurance was written by the marketing department.

Now on the subject of new oil, it's usually very dirty, next time you go to a dealer look at their bulk tanks, look at the filter (if it has one) micron rating, then look at the VENT filter micron rating....oh that filter may be more difficult to find :doh: Anyone heat with oil? Does the oil nozzle ride to your house in a clean environment? :shrug: Is oil sticky? Ever watch a bulk oil delivery? I know of only one oil manufacturer that used a tractor trailer filled with separate totes, an oil truck is an oil truck, what was in that truck last week?

Packaged oil, usually drums or less. Drums are typically regionally blended and locally filled by a distributor, ever look in the bottom of an oil drum...don't ever look in the bottom of a qt bottle? Maybe it's 'additive' package settlement or maybe it's not, maybe it's just the allowed amount of contamination percentage in clean oil. <<<Why sample results are useless without new samples to use as a baseline.

All of the above it just my opinion of course.

 

[Asharus]

this is why i changed my oil at 7500 and will continue to do so unless the OLM calls for an earlier change.

 

[Blaster]

@ 570 miles dumped the Group 2 Ford "factory fill" and installed Group 4 0W40 Mobil One Eurospec. Bought oil filter from dealer.

Will be dumping the "factory fill" on the M82 and refilling with Royal Purple Synchromesh shortly.

:ford:

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