'16 Camaro Reviews are starting to hit the sites.

[Strokerswild]

Owl boner.....LOL.....almost sprayed my monitor with a mouthful of water on that one.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Sponsored

 

[68fbjjz109]

Have you seen how fast they jump in price with options?

A loaded 2LT V6 is only a few hundred below a base 1SS.

Chevy is taking the course of offering near max OEM level performance out of the box where Ford seems to be more interested in offering a good base to start customized builds? Not sure but it's a feeling I get.

I do think that Ford should offer performance package for both the manual and auto cars.

Auto with the GT350 active exhaust, 3.55 gears, FRPP handling pack standard, diff and trans coolers, the FRPP intake, calibration and a licensed version of the Steeda K brace and new wheeks/rubber like the GTPP.

Rate it at 455 HP and 415 TQ.

Price it at $3,100 and print money.

I would love to see a more track focused pack.

Keep in mind Ford is very big on carry over drive train components for new models. It's a great cost savings, and inherently builds in quality.

2015 F150 is the sameway. That's how you afford to build an all aluminum truck, and offer it at the same price as Chevy and Dodge whose trucks are 10+ years old.

Suspension is subtle revisions, frame, similar overall strategy, a single new powerplant, carry over drive train.

The Raptor will change that.

This is very similar to the Mustang

It is very interesting to see the differing strategies between the cars, and the Camaro came out swinging. And changed in very different areas than the Mustang.


Mostly carryover Roadrunner/Coyote DOHC, revised MT 82, new but steel intensive/ high strength steel body structure, cast iron front suspension components, aluminum rear lower control arms, and steel front and rear suspension cradles.

vs.

Revised DI OHV LT4, aluminized Alpha Chassis, Aluminum and Composite front suspension, aluminum front Cradle, Steel rear cradle and suspension components.

If I have time, maybe ill take the known weights of the S550, and ATS, and swap everything but the bodies. And see where the S550 comes in at with similar light weighting strategies until we get our Camaro.

 

[Cascadia_302]

I know in my off-road days that a shorter stroke with rev faster. Don't know if that equates to cars tho, but it might.

Yes it does, example the 385 series 429 vs 460. The 460 is the stroked version of the 429 and has the extra torque the truck guys like.
I ran both at the strip but settled with the 429 as the shorter stroke would rev faster/higher.

 

[Strokerswild]

Yes it does, example the 385 series 429 vs 460. The 460 is the stroked version of the 429 and has the extra torque the truck guys like.
I ran both at the strip but settled with the 429 as the shorter stroke would rev faster/higher.

Yep, quicker and higher revving, less piston speed at a given RPM, etc.

 

[Sasuketr]

C7 headers and tune. 450 hp/tq



C7 heads/cam 550 hp 470 tq.

Those lt1s make some good power

Compared to the lt1's, I ve seen new mustangs putting down 445 whp with full exhaust, cai and tune but torque barely reaches beyond 390 lbft!

 

[Erik427]

How is rate of RPM climb calculated and measured? Is it dependent on gearing and load? Is there a number that represents rate of rpm climb?

This is done on a engine dyno. HP and TQ are only two parts of a three part solution.

 

[mustang_guy]

Compared to the lt1's, I ve seen new mustangs putting down 445 whp with full exhaust, cai and tune but torque barely reaches beyond 390 lbft!

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

It is very interesting to see the differing strategies between the cars, and the Camaro came out swinging. And changed in very different areas than the Mustang.


Mostly carryover Roadrunner/Coyote DOHC, revised MT 82, new but steel intensive/ high strength steel body structure, cast iron front suspension components, aluminum rear lower control arms, and steel front and rear suspension cradles.

vs.

Revised DI OHV LT4, aluminized Alpha Chassis, Aluminum and Composite front suspension, aluminum front Cradle, Steel rear cradle and suspension components.

Interesting points re: suspension components. :clap2:

Yep, quicker and higher revving, less piston speed at a given RPM, etc.

Yes it does, example the 385 series 429 vs 460. The 460 is the stroked version of the 429 and has the extra torque the truck guys like.
I ran both at the strip but settled with the 429 as the shorter stroke would rev faster/higher.

Typically, in most grassroots OHV racecars at least, the valvetrain weight is the limiting factor in max rpm, not bottom end geometry. If both engines are designed to run cleanly to 7500 rpm (grassroots big block boat anchors) the larger will produce more power everywhere on the graph. Sounds like something wasn't ideal w/ the 460 build...maybe some cut corners? I'm confident it wasn't the stroke that was the problem. Cylinder heads and/or cam timing are more likely culprits.

Just heads, cam, bolt ons but they make some gd power. Seriously? That's a lot of shit. Makes me lol

What does a Coyote need to match it? Break down the costs for us.

 

[347CobraII]

Have you seen how fast they jump in price with options?

A loaded 2LT V6 is only a few hundred below a base 1SS.

Chevy is taking the course of offering near max OEM level performance out of the box where Ford seems to be more interested in offering a good base to start customized builds? Not sure but it's a feeling I get.

I do think that Ford should offer performance package for both the manual and auto cars.

Auto with the GT350 active exhaust, 3.55 gears, FRPP handling pack standard, diff and trans coolers, the FRPP intake, calibration and a licensed version of the Steeda K brace and new wheeks/rubber like the GTPP.

Rate it at 455 HP and 415 TQ.

Price it at $3,100 and print money.

It sounds great but more options for every model adds to price of development. Then they pass the cost on to the buyer

 

[Erik427]

Interesting points re: suspension components. :clap2:





Typically, in most grassroots OHV racecars at least, the valvetrain weight is the limiting factor in max rpm, not bottom end geometry. If both engines are designed to run cleanly to 7500 rpm (grassroots big block boat anchors) the larger will produce more power everywhere on the graph. Sounds like something wasn't ideal w/ the 460 build...maybe some cut corners? I'm confident it wasn't the stroke that was the problem. Cylinder heads and/or cam timing are more likely culprits.



What does a Coyote need to match it? Break down the costs for us.

More cubes!

 

[re-rx7]

.



What does a Coyote need to match it? Break down the costs for us.

Hp per liter the coyote dominates the lt. Shit for the price of the stuff needed to make tha power on a lt you could buy a supercharger. But hey, it's just heads, cams, headers, intake, exhaust. Basically a different fu king engine lol

 

[Cascadia_302]

Typically, in most grassroots OHV racecars at least, the valvetrain weight is the limiting factor in max rpm, not bottom end geometry. If both engines are designed to run cleanly to 7500 rpm (grassroots big block boat anchors) the larger will produce more power everywhere on the graph. Sounds like something wasn't ideal w/ the 460 build...maybe some cut corners? I'm confident it wasn't the stroke that was the problem. Cylinder heads and/or cam timing are more likely culprits.

Correct concerning valve train components, and incorrect about your other assumptions. The 460 with hydraulic RV cam grind was built with my F250 in mind and no corners were cut. The 429 was built using a relatively mild mechanical camshaft and light weight aluminum roller rockers for the bracket car, yes some corners were cut for cost....nice try though.

 

[Toddin Vancouver]

true as F.
these cars are attention grabbers. I have found random people and kids snapping photos at or with my s550 on parking lots, and whenever a 5th gen SS passes by a whole lot of heads turn no matter where you are. I, at the risk of getting my head cut off once again, dare say that some of these modern models are better looking than their classic counterparts. But..when you see a pristine one from the 60s you immediately turn, not because you may think its the most beautiful car youve ever seen, but because its a rare sight.
Another thing I just CANT WAIT to see is how their 2 liter turbo does...

Its a funny thing as I've had a lot of different cars and some of the attention they've gotten surprises the heck out of me. I had one of the first Nismo 350s and it was nuts how many people would come up to that car. I have to say though nothing I've ever owned gets the attention of my ZL1. Maybe because where I live there are very few of them. But I see a GT500 and it gets the same attention so I think its just more of a sinister looking car with all the body changes gathers attention. I Was at a car show recently and nobody was looking at the HellCat because in my opinion it looks too much like all the Challengers. My '67 never got the attention my Z gets, but thats just my experience.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

Correct concerning valve train components, and incorrect about your other assumptions. The 460 with hydraulic RV cam grind was built with my F250 in mind and no corners were cut. The 429 was built using a relatively mild mechanical camshaft and light weight aluminum roller rockers for the bracket car, yes some corners were cut for cost....nice try though.

So you're comparing a hyd cammed truck engine to a solid tappet bracket engine of lesser displacement, then concluding the bracket engine revs higher solely bc of its stroke? Not sure how you can reasonably draw such a conclusion.

In the case of the 460, the hyd 'RV' cam IS/WAS the corner cut. Did I not say 'cam timing'?:shrug:

More cubes!

Would be nice, huh?

Staying naturally aspirated it seems the Coyote needs quite a bit of work to hit the 550rwhp mark. Any of you guys ported a set of 4V heads? They have (surprise!) twice the number of bowls and throats to be measured and worked, not to mention seats to cut. They cost A LOT more than a ported 2V head for a reason. Why don't we see more NA Coyote builds? Headers, tune and cold air...and 'maybe' an intake swap seem to be the dominant posts in the 5.0 section. Sure, blowers can make a lot more power, but they add weight and cost a lot of $...usually far more than a heads/cam pkg for an LS/LT.

So, the Coyote makes up to around 450 rwhp w/ the usual $2500 bolt on recipe.

These new LTs make 470 or so w/ similar mods, but substantially more torque.

For what, $5 or so grand an LT1 will make 550rwhp NA if off the shelf parts are used...is that fair? Has the benefit of a lopey idle if you're into that kinda thing.

Blower kits for Coyotes are what, $6-9k depending on brand, and make 600-650rwhp? Has the benefit of stock idle if you're into that kinda thing.

I don't think either is really any notably better than the other as far as bang for the buck in the 'new' market.

Used powerplants are a whole different story...don't get me started on turbo junkyard 5.3s....

Hp per liter the coyote dominates the lt. Shit for the price of the stuff needed to make tha power on a lt you could buy a supercharger. But hey, it's just heads, cams, headers, intake, exhaust. Basically a different fu king engine lol

No one took the hp/liter defense/argument seriously when all the Honda guys were using it in the late 90s.... If it meant anything in the real world everyone would drive S2000s.

As far as a 'different engine'...if that's what you think, welcome to hot rodding, glad you could join us. External engine bolt ons don't take much skill or knowhow.

 

[Starman]

No one took the hp/liter defense/argument seriously when all the Honda guys were using it in the late 90s.... If it meant anything in the real world everyone would drive S2000s.

Not true, HP/liter started in 1994 (not with the S2000) with the B16a that was 1.6 liter pushing out 160 HP and the Honda that had it at the time was just as fast in a 0-60 and quarter then the Mustang GT with a V8 and 4.6 liters.

The only people not taking it seriously were those guys back then with really weak V8's that couldn't push 50/hp liter. Honda guys were asking them why their 4.8 liter V8's couldn't make 480 HP (and run 200,000K miles) and they really didn't have much to say accept "hp/liter is invalid neener neener neener... your momma wears combat boots".

Today its very much alive. The G350 has a V8 that now does 100 HP / liter and damn... That is awesome. You people still can't see the significance even 20 years later lol.

Sponsored