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[roygriffin2020]

Anyone who tracks cars higher than at a beginner level swaps their fluid. It is a safety issue.

Anyone who is at beginner level will never be going fast enough to boil fluid.

Serious question... do you actually track cars?

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[roygriffin2020]

Ok, you are both an idiot and ignorant. I'm not wasting any more time with you on this subject.

Ok, now that I know what I am, according to TrollHouse, I feel so much better.

 

[roygriffin2020]

So it sounds like there have been reviews where the pedal gets spongy for both cars. Not unusual for heavy cars.... also likely a stock brake line issue which can swell when hot and pushed hard. Swap fluid, add stainless lines.

Most cars that are tracked even just for the day, people change the fluid. It is just common knowledge. Along with so many other things that people don't know about.

https://camarosofmichigan.com/2018/2018_chevrolet_camaro_track_prep_guide-min.pdf

 

[roygriffin2020]

I have never tracked a car without swapping fluid. It is a safety issue. No cars that I'm aware of come with sufficient brake fluid from the factory.

I would think the ZLE would, but they don't. Just money saving for GM, but what pennies?

 

[millhouse]

Randy specifically mentioned the pedal got long on the 500. He had them bleed the fluid. These are the same words that were used in the ZLE review that you are harping on. Long pedal.

Except, he didn't. He just didn't like the feel. You have to know the difference, right?

"No fade, but some squish. They even bled the brakes for me, yet both test cars felt spongy. This was surprising because I recall complaining that the GT350's brakes were too strong, requiring only a big toe. Perfect would be somewhere in between."

Anyone who tracks cars higher than at a beginner level swaps their fluid. It is a safety issue.

Anyone who is at beginner level will never be going fast enough to boil fluid.

Serious question... do you actually track cars?

Indeed they do. I have no issue with what you are saying...just with those that seem to be ignorant to what larger rotors and pads give.

And no, I don't track cars....anymore.

You mean this from article.

Stopping this rig were perhaps the largest rotors (16.5 inches) and Brembo calipers I've yet to experience. Although the big Shelby could dive deep, deep into the tight corners VIR presents at the culmination of its long straights, it was here I could find my only real complaint: a bit of a long brake pedal, which was a little disconcerting at 170 mph. No fade but some squish. They even bled the brakes for me, yet both test Shelbys felt spongy

And again, let's quote the article where they talk about fade (which is what we are discussing).

"No fade, but some squish. They even bled the brakes for me, yet both test cars felt spongy. This was surprising because I recall complaining that the GT350's brakes were too strong, requiring only a big toe. Perfect would be somewhere in between."

I pose the same question to you, do you know the difference between how brakes "feel" and real brake fade?

The difference here is the GT500 experiences no fade, yet the ZLE did...within 5 laps. Case closed.

Let I remind all of the camaro folks where this topic came from....from those that fail to understand the difference between stopping distance and brake fade....and the real advantage of larger rotors and pads (when smaller brakes would have been totally adequate to stop).

You wan't to argue fluids, then blame GM for not providing the car with proper fluids for track duty.

 

[02gtnh]

Except, he didn't. He just didn't like the feel. You have to know the difference, right?

"No fade, but some squish. They even bled the brakes for me, yet both test cars felt spongy. This was surprising because I recall complaining that the GT350's brakes were too strong, requiring only a big toe. Perfect would be somewhere in between."



Indeed they do. I have no issue with what you are saying...just with those that seem to be ignorant to what larger rotors and pads give.

And no, I don't track cars....anymore.



And again, let's quote the article where they talk about fade (which is what we are discussing).

"No fade, but some squish. They even bled the brakes for me, yet both test cars felt spongy. This was surprising because I recall complaining that the GT350's brakes were too strong, requiring only a big toe. Perfect would be somewhere in between."

I pose the same question to you, do you know the difference between how brakes "feel" and real brake fade?

The difference here is the GT500 experiences no fade, yet the ZLE did...within 5 laps. Case closed.

Let I remind all of the camaro folks where this topic came from....from those that fail to understand the difference between stopping distance and brake fade....and the real advantage of larger rotors and pads (when smaller brakes would have been totally adequate to stop).

You wan't to argue fluids, then blame GM for not providing the car with proper fluids for track duty.

The article you showed me didn’t say the 1le was fadeing either. Just long. He said squishy. Which sounds worse?

 

[JohnnyUtah]

I would think the ZLE would, but they don't. Just money saving for GM, but what pennies?

I think it's more about maintenance intervals, and probably cost as well.

I believe the ZLE comes with Dot 3, which is recommended to be swapped to Dot 4. They recommend the same for the SS 1LE along with a different oil, though I cant remember which weight off hand.

Not sure what fluid comes stock on the 500

 

[millhouse]

The article you showed me didn’t say the 1le was fadeing either. Just long. He said squishy. Which sounds worse?

Let's look at what the article said again...

" It was the iron-rotor brakes, which carry over from the regular ZL1, and not the tires that kept us from turning more than five hot laps at a time; the pedal gets a little long on the fifth lap."

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15082238/2018-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-1le-test-review/

That is the definition of brake fade. They could only turn 5 laps at a time because of it. Do you not see the difference...really?

 

[millhouse]

I think it's more about maintenance intervals, and probably cost as well.

I believe the ZLE comes with Dot 3, which is recommended to be swapped to Dot 4. They recommend the same for the SS 1LE along with a different oil, though I cant remember which weight off hand.

Not sure what fluid comes stock on the 500

EDIT:

It appears the GT500 comes with DOT 4.

https://www.mustang6g.com/downloads/2020-Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT500-Owners-Manual-Supplement.pdf

 

[02gtnh]

Let's look at what the article said again...

" It was the iron-rotor brakes, which carry over from the regular ZL1, and not the tires that kept us from turning more than five hot laps at a time; the pedal gets a little long on the fifth lap."

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15082238/2018-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-1le-test-review/

That is the definition of brake fade. They could only turn 5 laps at a time because of it. Do you not see the difference...really?

I guess 5 laps and being long is better then one lap and being squishy.

 

[JohnnyUtah]

EDIT:

It appears the GT500 comes with DOT 4.

https://www.mustang6g.com/downloads/2020-Ford-Mustang-Shelby-GT500-Owners-Manual-Supplement.pdf

That's nice. Any car at this level really should come with it from the factory. ZLE should too.

 

[millhouse]

I guess 5 laps and being long is better then one lap and being squishy.

Come on now, you don't really believe that do you? If that's the case, you should have no problem with the GTPP2 having some issues with overheating...right? After all, it only happens when it's really hot...and only after 15 minutes of hot lapping.

 

[millhouse]

That's nice. Any car at this level really should come with it from the factory. ZLE should too.

Agreed. Quite frankly, I'm surprised it doesn't. All of you would be all over Fords shit had it not been included on the GT500...and if the brakes where prone to fade.

Edit:
That poses a real question. I wonder if the fluid was indeed DOT 4? I'm sure GM supplied there vehicles for track testing fully adjusted for track duty...including fluids.

 

[roygriffin2020]

I think it's more about maintenance intervals, and probably cost as well.

I believe the ZLE comes with Dot 3, which is recommended to be swapped to Dot 4. They recommend the same for the SS 1LE along with a different oil, though I cant remember which weight off hand.

Not sure what fluid comes stock on the 500

My ZL1 came with 5w-30 oil. For track purposes they say to change to 5w40 or 15w 50. I know my M3 was 10w60 and had no advice for changing. As it was good as is. Most of my life I use 20w50 Castrol in all my vehicles, which is good for most purposes. For brake fluid they say to change the ZL1 to Dot-4.

 

[roygriffin2020]

Let's look at what the article said again...

" It was the iron-rotor brakes, which carry over from the regular ZL1, and not the tires that kept us from turning more than five hot laps at a time; the pedal gets a little long on the fifth lap."

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15082238/2018-chevrolet-camaro-zl1-1le-test-review/

That is the definition of brake fade. They could only turn 5 laps at a time because of it. Do you not see the difference...really?

Why can you not make a point without insulting someone? Answer me that?

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