0w-20?

[m6pwr]

I think the svt thread being referred to is this one http://www.*******************/forums/showthread.php?805918-Official-GT-5-0-Boss-302-UOA-thread.

If you can't read it, it has recommendations for various vis oils based on intended use. The author (a forum guru I guess) recommends sticking with 5w20 for a stock coyote 5.0 GT. If you get into mods like turbos, superchargers, or other tunes, then the author recommends going to thicker vis oils.

The thread also has an interesting table of around 50+ uoa's (used oil analyses) provided by members of the svt forum. The oils used in the uoa's vary in viscosity, and the oil change intervals vary from relatively short to long (9 or 10k mi). I can't find a single uoa on 5w20 that looks abnormal. With respect to viscosity retention, you normally like the oil to stay in grade. 5w20 oils can vary from an upper limit (thickness) of 9.2 centistokes, down to a lower limit of 6.9 centistokes. Most shearing (thinning) of an oil takes place early in its period of use and then as the miles build up oxidative thickening (normal and not always a bad thing) takes over and the oil starts to get thicker. A good example of that is the 5w20 oil in uoa #45 in the table. At 9000 mi of use, the 5w20 had thickened to close to a thin 30 weight.

I can't find a single uoa on a 5w20 in the table that has sheared back out of grade (in other words sheared back to 6.9 or lower centistokes).

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[mustang_guy]

OK...now we're getting somewhere. Only 2 5W20's have PROVEN to be fine. Proven where? Proven how? You're telling me to ignore what Ford says to put in the engine. Are you saying that Ford is providing misinformation now? I'm sorry, but the onus is on you to persuade me, not the other way around since any prudent person would follow what the manufacturer recommends. If you won't or can't provide some persuasive info, that's on you. I'll just let it go after this since you're not prepared to back up your statement. Life's too short.

Best,

You assume way too much. You make it impossible to have a conversation with you. It is not on me to persuade you. Its on you if you care enough about your vehicle. I dont need to prove anything to you. Just because you demand me to provide information doesnt mean i owe it to you. That isnt how the world works. Youve mistaken me for a man that needs to prove himself to the nearest challenger. Look else where.

I think the svt thread being referred to is this one http://www.*******************/forums/showthread.php?805918-Official-GT-5-0-Boss-302-UOA-thread.

If you can't read it, it has recommendations for various vis oils based on intended use. The author (a forum guru I guess) recommends sticking with 5w20 for a stock coyote 5.0 GT. If you get into mods like turbos, superchargers, or other tunes, then the author recommends going to thicker vis oils.

The thread also has an interesting table of around 50+ uoa's (used oil analyses) provided by members of the svt forum. The oils used in the uoa's vary in viscosity, and the oil change intervals vary from relatively short to long (9 or 10k mi). I can't find a single uoa on 5w20 that looks abnormal. With respect to viscosity retention, you normally like the oil to stay in grade. 5w20 oils can vary from an upper limit (thickness) of 9.2 centistokes, down to a lower limit of 6.9 centistokes. Most shearing (thinning) of an oil takes place early in its period of use and then as the miles build up oxidative thickening (normal and not always a bad thing) takes over and the oil starts to get thicker. A good example of that is the 5w20 oil in uoa #45 in the table. At 9000 mi of use, the 5w20 had thickened to close to a thin 30 weight.

I can't find a single uoa on a 5w20 in the table that has shared back out of grade (in other words sheared back to 6.9 or lower centistokes).

He never says anywhere to use motorcraft in his updated list. He has also shared his thoughts on how motorcraft did and does not find it a good choice to put it in the car. He states in the thread later to use pennzoil ultra or amsoil in 5w20 depending what the cars use is.

AMSOIL ALM 5w20- If your engine is 100% internally stock in Naturally Aspirated form, regardless of external simple bolt on mods, driven daily in all climates, use this. *Mustang GT only* previously, the old list recommended formulations in the 0W-30 to 10W-30 range for this engine. However, after testing in my personal 2014 Mustang GT with a stock engine, 5W-20 Signature Series is a contender. Using previous recommendations is OK, but will now use AZF 0W-40 as the blanket for most application requirements beyond 5W-20 for simplicity.

Mc oil is a average oil at best and does not hold up to abuse in performance applications when used as intended. The author knows more about oil than most. His advice is credible. Everyone thinks they are an authority on oil because they do some reading on bitog. Such is not the case. Ive had coyote failures in my old bay due to mc 5w20. The analysis of the motor from tear down was oil. Test on the oil came back as Mc. I would rather run the Pennzoil yellow bottle in my car before id let Mc be used in it.

 

[m6pwr]

Actually, I know more about oil than the dude on svt forum. Everybody knows that. I'm not being humble or anything, just stating a fact. I mean it is what it is and i know more than the svt loser. I have a Doctor of Motors degree from my high school industrial arts class. I crush the svt guy when it comes to oil knowledge. Plus, he probably has mental issues. Not to be unkind, but the svt author may be mentally unstable. Just saying'. A lot of people agree with me. Its unfortunate, but it is what it is. I've heard it said (I watch Fox News) that the svt author was bitten in his crib by a vicious bottle of Motorcraft 5w20, so its no wonder he can't stand it. I shouldn't watch the GOP debates anymore. I sound like Donald Trump.

 

[RitzGT]

I think the svt thread being referred to is this one http://www.*******************/forums/showthread.php?805918-Official-GT-5-0-Boss-302-UOA-thread.

If you can't read it, it has recommendations for various vis oils based on intended use. The author (a forum guru I guess) recommends sticking with 5w20 for a stock coyote 5.0 GT. If you get into mods like turbos, superchargers, or other tunes, then the author recommends going to thicker vis oils.

The thread also has an interesting table of around 50+ uoa's (used oil analyses) provided by members of the svt forum. The oils used in the uoa's vary in viscosity, and the oil change intervals vary from relatively short to long (9 or 10k mi). I can't find a single uoa on 5w20 that looks abnormal. With respect to viscosity retention, you normally like the oil to stay in grade. 5w20 oils can vary from an upper limit (thickness) of 9.2 centistokes, down to a lower limit of 6.9 centistokes. Most shearing (thinning) of an oil takes place early in its period of use and then as the miles build up oxidative thickening (normal and not always a bad thing) takes over and the oil starts to get thicker. A good example of that is the 5w20 oil in uoa #45 in the table. At 9000 mi of use, the 5w20 had thickened to close to a thin 30 weight.

I can't find a single uoa on a 5w20 in the table that has sheared back out of grade (in other words sheared back to 6.9 or lower centistokes).

That was extremely helpful. Thanks!

Since we're talking about qualifications...I've got degrees in both mechanical and electrical engineering and about 35 years of hands-on wrenching (some of which I spent building hot rodded Audis for the track). I don't have a degree specific to automobiles or motor oils though.

Again, I'm always open to learning and changing how I do things if that's based on data. Now that I've got some, I'll chew on it for a while.

Best,

 

[14RS3]

I have a 14 Roush stage 3, 82mm pulley, Roush cai, vmp bap, dyno tuned supposedly putting down 600hp/ 514tq. Car is just under 5000 miles and at 3200 I did the first oil change using Mobile 1 0-40 euro spec, figured if it was good enough for A GT-R and AMG series vehicles then good enough for me.
So far no issues and the motor seems quieter, it was a track pack before the Roush conversion so it has the 5-50 oil cap. I read so much about the 5-50 breaking down to a heavy 30 weight after 2-3000 miles I figured the Mobile 1 couldn't be worse. Time will tell. It isn't a daily driver as you can tell by the mileage and I don't track it, just fun backroad trips. So if anything goes wrong or seems to wear out quicker than it should, I will post back here to let everyone know.

 

[RitzGT]

I've gone to the "dark side" and I'm rocking Rotella T6 now. 5W-40 full synthetic. 2 x 1 gallon jugs at Walmart was about $43. One less oil to stock for my cars now.

I plan to continue my 7500 mile change intervals.

Best,

 

[Radiation Joe]

Actually, I know more about oil than the dude on svt forum. Everybody knows that. I'm not being humble or anything, just stating a fact. I mean it is what it is and i know more than the svt loser. I have a Doctor of Motors degree from my high school industrial arts class. I crush the svt guy when it comes to oil knowledge. Plus, he probably has mental issues. Not to be unkind, but the svt author may be mentally unstable. Just saying'. A lot of people agree with me. Its unfortunate, but it is what it is. I've heard it said (I watch Fox News) that the svt author was bitten in his crib by a vicious bottle of Motorcraft 5w20, so its no wonder he can't stand it. I shouldn't watch the GOP debates anymore. I sound like Donald Trump.

LOL!!! Now you've sunken to the depths of the other "experts" in this thread.

For the record, I'm a fan of thin oils (ran 30w Redline in my M3s that were supposed to run 10W-60 Castrol. Lots of UOAs saying it was fine. I'm also a fan of MC 5W-20; both the semi and the full synthetics. There are better 5W-20s out there, though. Amsoil 5W-20 is at the top of my list for daily drivers.

 

[Chameleon]

LOL!!! Now you've sunken to the depths of the other "experts" in this thread.

For the record, I'm a fan of thin oils (ran 30w Redline in my M3s that were supposed to run 10W-60 Castrol. Lots of UOAs saying it was fine. I'm also a fan of MC 5W-20; both the semi and the full synthetics. There are better 5W-20s out there, though. Amsoil 5W-20 is at the top of my list for daily drivers.

Yes sir.

 

[m6pwr]

Just to add to the never-ending debate on thick vs thin, here's a current BITOG thread about a fellow using 0w20 in his Caterham 7 race car where 5w50 is spec'd:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4022868/1

There are many versions of the Caterham 7 with different engines, but I think the more recent ones have a tuned 2.0 liter Ford Duratec motor.

 

[09jsw]

Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE)


5W20 is a tad better than using water.


Mobil 1 0W40 Group 4 oil. (Eurospec)

Exactly. EPA and CAFE are the reason and only reason.
Ford and others started this in 2001 I believe and they made us just change the fill and nothing else. So most cars that got 5w30 were now automatically getting 5w20, same engines before and after.

 

[Blaster]

To further rile ppl up I will rant on the subject of "full" synthetics. You hear it all the time and see it written on various motor oil containers. A motor oil is either synthetic or it is not. Invariably, "full" synthetics, a marketing term created circa 1999, are Group 3 oils, aka "severely hydrocracked".

A synthetic oil is a Group 4 oil, aka polyalphaolefin. I use Mobil 1 0W40 Euro Spec because it is the only Mobil 1 that I can buy at a normal market cost that is a polyalphaolefin oil.

For reference, the bulk oils used 99% of the time at Ford, Toyota, Honda et al service departments are Group 2 oils. Their optional oils are all Group 3 hence the container will display the marketing term "Full Synthetic".

In the end, will having used a Group 4 oil over a Group 3 oil make any difference? No idea, but for the same cost I'll take the REAL stuff.

 

[Optimum Performance]

opcorn:

This has been beaten like a :repost: on here. Happy to see more reasonable comments. Our car is a track day car, run in the heat. Hasn't blown up yet.

I've attached my Motorcraft Syn Blend 5W-20 sample results. I know the oil is horrible, look it turned to water LOL Complete Junk ;)

We run 5W-20 EP Mobil 1. I come from the industrial engine side (Multi-Million Dollar Engines) So I've seen lots of oil samples in 20+years. I also get very good off-the-cuff recommendations from oil suppliers.

No issues with OE Fluid in our car, no issues with Mobil 1 EP. It was suggested by a supplier to try the modern diesel oils due to their superior additive packages IF I see unfavorable trends.

We use CAT for our samples, because this is just a simple car engine, no need to complicate things. $18 a sample and it tells me all I need to know.

This engine will never see much more than a 5W-30 oil in it because of the following:

Main bearing journal to main bearing clearance 0.0010–0.0018 in (.025–.045 mm)

Connecting rod bearing to crankshaft clearance 0.0011–0.0027 in (.028–.069 mm)

Piston to cylinder bore clearance (at grade size)b 0.0010–0.0023 in (.025–.059 mm)

For Point of Reference the 32# Paper we print our instructions on is .005"
A typical receipt you receive from lunch is .002"

I'll just let thank sink in a minute....these engines were designed for 5W-20.

Industrial Engines making 3000, 4000, 6000HP running at just under 200F have Rod and Main Bearing Clearances ranging from .005-.009". About 5-9 times larger. Do you know what oil they use? Straight 40 weight oil.

These engines run for 30,000 hours, or about 3.5 years....think about your engine running constantly at full horsepower for 3.5 years. We pull them apart and the rod bearings are brand new. We likely introduce more dirt changing them in the field than they saw beforehand.

Do you know why "ALL" these failures happened? The internet exponentially blows up the failures. Do we know what caused these failures? No.

Do I have a theory? Yes, based on years of doing failure analysis on failed engines, it wasn't the oil. ....Just an opinion but I have no idea what I'm talking about

 

[3rdRGR]

Ok, I'm joining in this fun. The OP is trying to discuss the merits of 0 vs 5. Then it goes semi-off the rails. What I have seen is that 0 "flows" quicker (though slightly) at startup. Then at operating temperature there is no difference between 0 and 5. So even if it's "slightly" better mainly in colder temps (gets cold in Indiana winters), why in the heck would you NOT want that?? I see credible debate on 20 vs 30 vs 40, but I cannot see credible reasons why 5 over 0. Like I'd want longer time for the oil to reach critical components during startup which for non-trackers is the time where the most wear is put on critical components. What about a compromise with a quality oil? 0W-30 Amsoil Signature? This for a guy who isn't going to track or do much modding of the engine (maybe a CAI, Intake, throttle body if/when available and if it won't F with warranty). I live in the country and routinely push the car close to redline on the twisties for relatively short bursts. Rarely prolonged ala track use.

 

[GregO]

0W-20 here for over 50K @10k OCI. I sleep well knowing 0W-xx is superior to 5W-xx. Not just any 0W-20, the good stuff from Castrol, Edge Professional. If Jaguar Land Rover spec's 0W-20 in their 510 HP Supercharged 5.0L @ 15K OCI ( motor designed mostly by Ford before Tata Motors took over) I think most everyone will be OK with 0W-20.
Castrol Edge Extended Performance 20K OCI is about as close to Edge Professional as it gets without a trip to the Dealership.
I've been an Amsoil dealer for over 20 years and I still reach for Castrol Edge Professional.
"Liquid Titanium" isn't marketing fiction.
There's a reason the best of the OEM's contract out to Castrol for spec. oil, it isn't because Castrol is low bidder.

 

[3rdRGR]

0W-20 here for over 50K @10k OCI. I sleep well knowing 0W-xx is superior to 5W-xx. Not just any 0W-20, the good stuff from Castrol, Edge Professional. If Jaguar Land Rover spec's 0W-20 in their 510 HP Supercharged 5.0L @ 15K OCI ( motor designed mostly by Ford before Tata Motors took over) I think most everyone will be OK with 0W-20.
Castrol Edge Extended Performance 20K OCI is about as close to Edge Professional as it gets without a trip to the Dealership.
I've been an Amsoil dealer for over 20 years and I still reach for Castrol Edge Professional.
"Liquid Titanium" isn't marketing fiction.
There's a reason the best of the OEM's contract out to Castrol for spec. oil, it isn't because Castrol is low bidder.

Good info Greg. So IYO no benefit to 30 over 20 for non-track, but lots of twistie pushing? Very intriguing to me that an Amsoil dealer (which you must believe in to some extent) would use something else, so to me that carries a lot of "weight" (I'm here all week folks...). Would you put the Extended Performance over the Amsoil Signature, as maybe what you are saying is the Castrol Professional is hard to get? Speaking of, what is the most economical source for either of the Castrol's? Many thanks!!

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