E85 Mixing or Straight?

Schu · Mar 25, 2016

GotStanged said:
The 15-16 5.0 mustang has 47lb injector already in them.

:doh:

DarkestHour · Mar 25, 2016

Has Lund found MBT to be before full E85? If so, why not just mix 50/50 and reap the benefits of the power and still retain some gas mileage.

MyFirst5.0 · Mar 25, 2016

when you guys are not using e85 are you using the pump gas map? i came from a subaru where i had to change, seems like i can just flash the FF map and never worry about reflashing maps again

LOL WUT · Mar 26, 2016

MyFirst5.0 said:
when you guys are not using e85 are you using the pump gas map? i came from a subaru where i had to change, seems like i can just flash the FF map and never worry about reflashing maps again

You can run E85, 93, Or a combination of both. The tune works just like a flex fuel car and adjusts accordingly to the supplied fuel. However, for optimum results it is suggested to run 100% E85 or 100% 93.

So yes, this tune eliminates the need to flash you car each time you fill up with a different fuel. Keep in mind if you run a tank of 93 or E85 down to the fuel light and then fill up with the opposite fuel the car will take several minutes to adjust the AFR correctly. You can monitor your AFR until it settles at the correct point to ensure the car has adapted.

Some individuals have noticed a larger seat of the pants increase in power after the first tank of E85 has been depleted and they are on their second tank of E85. This may be due to the residual amount of 91/93 that was left in their system.

JM10 · Mar 27, 2016

So what's the point of Lunds asking which fuel you are going to use?
I currently have a 91 tune but would like to have the option to run E85 (if I travel to another city)

16 GT Auto 3.15s JLT/Lund 91 Tune

LOL WUT · Mar 27, 2016

JM10 said:
So what's the point of Lunds asking which fuel you are going to use?
I currently have a 91 tune but would like to have the option to run E85 (if I travel to another city)

16 GT Auto 3.15s JLT/Lund 91 Tune

I am not certain but if I were to take a guess it would be to establish a floor for the tune. Essentially writing the tune to operate within specific parameters such as 91-E85 or 93-E85. However to the best of my knowledge when the flex fuel tune is provided it is set up for 91 octane to be the lowest used in order to give the tune a wide margin to work within.

Again I could be way off base here :cheers:.

Sick03L · Mar 27, 2016

DarkestHour said:
Has Lund found MBT to be before full E85? If so, why not just mix 50/50 and reap the benefits of the power and still retain some gas mileage.

I See MBT on a 50/50 blend. I've logged it all. Seems E40 TO E50 gets you there. Just my observations.

Plimmer · Mar 27, 2016

Pretty sure this is documented elsewhere, but the Mustang seems to use the same flex fuel strategy as the F150. So the logic in the ECM is as follows:
1. Check if fuel tank has been refilled, usually 10% or more. If Yes go to step 2. else use old parameters set.
2. Measure AFR for a set period of time (10sec) and for a set airflow through the MAF (between 2 and 8 lbs)
3. Infer an ethanol percentage based on the AFR calculated. This is set until the next tank refill.
4. Use the inferred ethanol % to extrapolate the timing and lambda needed. There are tables for 100% ethanol, so the ECM will use the inferred % to extrapolate between 0% and 100% for the inferred ethanol %.

So basically, every time you refill the ECM will resample the ethanol % and reset the inferred % for all timing and fueling calculations.

dubster99 · Mar 27, 2016

GotStanged said:
The 15-16 5.0 mustang has 47lb injector already in them.

Not even remotely correct.

If you want power, run full E85. If you want mileage, run pump gas. Although you really shouldn't be complaining about mileage if you're modifying this car for power.

BluByeU · Mar 27, 2016

Random observation, I have noticed my alcohol content % go as high as 78 when the tank is straight E85 and naturally less when 91 and E85 are mixed. What's the highest percentage you have personally seen?

Plimmer said:
Pretty sure this is documented elsewhere, but the Mustang seems to use the same flex fuel strategy as the F150. So the logic in the ECM is as follows:
1. Check if fuel tank has been refilled, usually 10% or more. If Yes go to step 2. else use old parameters set.
2. Measure AFR for a set period of time (10sec) and for a set airflow through the MAF (between 2 and 8 lbs)
3. Infer an ethanol percentage based on the AFR calculated. This is set until the next tank refill.
4. Use the inferred ethanol % to extrapolate the timing and lambda needed. There are tables for 100% ethanol, so the ECM will use the inferred % to extrapolate between 0% and 100% for the inferred ethanol %.

So basically, every time you refill the ECM will resample the ethanol % and reset the inferred % for all timing and fueling calculations.

bravohankins · Mar 29, 2016

The 15-16 5.0 mustang has 47lb injector already in them.

The OEM injector is the BR3Z9F593A and it is a 36#/hr injector. 378cc/min

This injector is also known as the:
Motorcraft: CM5187
Bosch: 62408
Wells: M1433

bravohankins · Mar 29, 2016

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkestHour
Has Lund found MBT to be before full E85? If so, why not just mix 50/50 and reap the benefits of the power and still retain some gas mileage.

I See MBT on a 50/50 blend. I've logged it all. Seems E40 TO E50 gets you there. Just my observations.

I have been messing around with different blends of E85 here in PHX. Mainly for two reasons:
1) I didn't like the long starter cranking cold starts of straight E85 in the cold mornings( 30-40 degrees)
2) Didn't like the 5-6 mpg loss of straight E85

I have found through trial and error that my setup runs really well on around E25. If I keep the alcohol % between 23% and 28% I get a nice HP increase over our 91 California Craptane we get in AZ, but still get good mpg with no or only about a 1mpg loss. E25 is about 95 octane.

If I was racing or dyno day I would load up full E85 for the max HP gain, but daily driving I really like the E25 mix.

As summer starts to get really hot here in PHX I might go back to fulll E85 as cold starts won't be an issue when the low temp is 90 at night.

You guys that have access to 93 octane this might not be a real use to you as you have better gas available than we do here in PHX.

CoyoteFiveO · Apr 5, 2016

I do remember seeing somewhere that you do need the 47lb injectors if your running and aftermarket intake manifold with the flex fuel tune. Correct?

GSLSE20B · Apr 5, 2016

CoyoteFiveO said:
I do remember seeing somewhere that you do need the 47lb injectors if your running and aftermarket intake manifold with the flex fuel tune. Correct?

Cobrajet may like them .

CoyoteFiveO · Apr 5, 2016

Found it. John Lund actually sent this to me in the support part of his site.

"On 2015-2016 Coyotes stock injectors will be sufficient on stock intake manifold setups. CJ, Boss, GT350, or any others increasing HP in higher rpm will need at least 47lb injectors to meet fueling needs with more airflow at the high rpm."

E85 Mixing or Straight?

Schu

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DarkestHour

Hi

MyFirst5.0

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LOL WUT

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JM10

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LOL WUT

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Sick03L

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Plimmer

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BluByeU

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