Cross-shopping the S550 GT with a BMW M235i

Todd15Fastback · Oct 16, 2014

Boss Man said:
Cross shopping the 235 and 5.0 brings more than just who is fastest around the track into the equation. A fun lighter better DD that gets you damn near 25 combined MPG's that is a blast to drive on the track, better interior and exterior styling, more sophisticated, better built, more exclusive, will have better resale and wont be a dime a dozen in a few years.

:lol::lol::doh::headbonk::headbonk:

OppoLock · Oct 17, 2014

wjones14 said:
You nailed it on the head here Boss Man. Totally agree. I don't think the M235i is ugly at all - quite the opposite in fact - I think it's pretty classy if a bit understated. And the interior and steering wheel are killer. I have an appointment to test drive an M235i this Saturday, and am really looking forward to it.

I definitely will drive an S550 as well before making any decision. And I'd like to wait at least until the 2016 Camaro is revealed. Exciting times for sure, and my opinion is that I really cannot go wrong with any of these 3.

Your upcoming test drive is well timed, because I'd like to see what your opinion is like. I just test drove a MkVII GTI and M235i at my local BMW/VW/Porsche dealer while it was in for service. The guys let me have at it despite me being upfront with them about the S550 being on my top spot (we were all equally candid with each other and big car guys. They said it was a slow morning... and a slow month).

The M235i I drove was in Estoril Blue - pure beauty of a color and something I'd pick no questions asked if Ford offered it on the Mustang. The car had an 8-speed auto... WOW is all I have to say. I've driven other cars equipped with ZF's 8-speed like a loaner F30 328i, but the specific tuning for its application in this car, combined with that sweet, sweet I6 was just a dream pairing. I cannot overstate how impressive the transmission was in terms of response and shift speed. It made my jaw drop and the salesman laugh. It also made my ZF 6 feel absolutely antiquated, and I'd go so far as to say that it matched the GTI's DSG point for point and then some.

In regards to the engine, torque delivery felt far different compared to my car's despite the on-paper similarities (N55 twin-scroll single turbo I6 versus my N54 twin-turbo I6); I'm used to my 335i's low and immediate ramp up to boost threshold. If I'm in gear at WOT, I'll get a 1-2 second steep ramp-up with a big push in the back. But then my car plateaus and ultimately peters off well before redline. The M235i's torque delivery is much more linear with a better top end. It feels less like turbocharged car than mine. But don't get me wrong, you can definitely hear the turbos with the windows down. And keep them down, because when the transmission rips off either an up or downshift, you're greeted to a nice pop and burble.

I wasn't crazy about the height of my seat. I do wish it could've gone a bit lower. I LOVED the driving position aside from that though. The steering wheel is literal perfection; fantastically smooth leather, great 9 and 3 placements, and a thick rim (almost too thick), with a nice feeling set of paddles. My favorite part about it is how absurdly huge the telescoping range is. If you like to drive with the wheel close to your chest without having your feet cramped into the footwell, you will find your perfect driving position in a cinch.

As far as street impressions were concerned, we only bothered with two modes: sport+ and fully disabled traction control. Only two real highlights I had. In sport+, the transmission does a great job of working on its own, and the traction intervention threshold is surprisingly lax with a very mild presence after it finally kicks in.

With everything disabled, I had the opportunity to see how the back end would handle a heavy foot in low speed situations (with nobody nearby for safety concerns, of course). I was surprised by how smooth the overall transition into and out of oversteer was. It's all very natural, and I even had one of those golden moments where the chassis just mildly oversteers without really exceeding the limits, like the tail followed the nose perfectly while pivoting around a central Z-axis. Did I notice the lack of an LSD? Honestly, yes. When you're powering out of those corners, it still gets a bit scrappy and the tail still does a bit of wagging. Was it anywhere near as pronounced as the behavior in my 335i? Not even close.

Would I still want an LSD if I bought one? If you're thinking of tracking it, probably. But it hardly felt necessary for street use based on my limited experience. But man, if there's one thing that surprised me, it was that auto. I would get that car with an auto instead of manual. They pair too well to pass up.

OppoLock · Oct 17, 2014

Boss Man said:
Cross shopping the 235 and 5.0 brings more than just who is fastest around the track into the equation. A fun lighter better DD that gets you damn near 25 combined MPG's that is a blast to drive on the track, better interior and exterior styling, more sophisticated, better built, more exclusive, will have better resale and wont be a dime a dozen in a few years.

Those are all really valid points, and I just came away from a test drive not that long ago with a really positive outlook on the 235i. However, for as great as the car was, it's still missing two integral things: a big-lunged, naturally aspirated V8, and a real locking diff. The 235i can make all kinds of power with a tune and downpipes (just like the 335i crowd), but the noise will never be there.

I also still prefer the Mustang's styling by a mile. And with regards to rarity, or lack thereof, Mustangs might be common, but so are the 2er and 3ers when you view them as whole classes. An "M235i" won't look any different to the common eye from your garden variety 228i, and even a seasoned eye will have to strain in order to tell the difference if it's a 228i with an M-Sport package. They'll be everywhere. It's BMW's new cash crop lineup.

JoeDogInKC · Oct 17, 2014

OppoLock said:
Those are all really valid points, and I just came away from a test drive not that long ago with a really positive outlook on the 235i. However, for as great as the car was, it's still missing two integral things: a big-lunged, naturally aspirated V8, and a real locking diff. The 235i can make all kinds of power with a tune and downpipes (just like the 335i crowd), but the noise will never be there.

I also still prefer the Mustang's styling by a mile. And with regards to rarity, or lack thereof, Mustangs might be common, but so are the 2er and 3ers when you view them as whole classes. An "M235i" won't look any different to the common eye from your garden variety 228i, and even a seasoned eye will have to strain in order to tell the difference if it's a 228i with an M-Sport package. They'll be everywhere. It's BMW's new cash crop lineup.

Have you been able to drive an S550 yet? I'm curious your thoughts between the M235i and S550 if you have.

Swoope · Oct 17, 2014

OppoLock said:
Your upcoming test drive is well timed, because I'd like to see what your opinion is like. I just test drove a MkVII GTI and M235i at my local BMW/VW/Porsche dealer while it was in for service. The guys let me have at it despite me being upfront with them about the S550 being on my top spot (we were all equally candid with each other and big car guys. They said it was a slow morning... and a slow month).

The M235i I drove was in Estoril Blue - pure beauty of a color and something I'd pick no questions asked if Ford offered it on the Mustang. The car had an 8-speed auto... WOW is all I have to say. I've driven other cars equipped with ZF's 8-speed like a loaner F30 328i, but the specific tuning for its application in this car, combined with that sweet, sweet I6 was just a dream pairing. I cannot overstate how impressive the transmission was in terms of response and shift speed. It made my jaw drop and the salesman laugh. It also made my ZF 6 feel absolutely antiquated, and I'd go so far as to say that it matched the GTI's DSG point for point and then some.

In regards to the engine, torque delivery felt far different compared to my car's despite the on-paper similarities (N55 twin-scroll single turbo I6 versus my N54 twin-turbo I6); I'm used to my 335i's low and immediate ramp up to boost threshold. If I'm in gear at WOT, I'll get a 1-2 second steep ramp-up with a big push in the back. But then my car plateaus and ultimately peters off well before redline. The M235i's torque delivery is much more linear with a better top end. It feels less like turbocharged car than mine. But don't get me wrong, you can definitely hear the turbos with the windows down. And keep them down, because when the transmission rips off either an up or downshift, you're greeted to a nice pop and burble.

I wasn't crazy about the height of my seat. I do wish it could've gone a bit lower. I LOVED the driving position aside from that though. The steering wheel is literal perfection; fantastically smooth leather, great 9 and 3 placements, and a thick rim (almost too thick), with a nice feeling set of paddles. My favorite part about it is how absurdly huge the telescoping range is. If you like to drive with the wheel close to your chest without having your feet cramped into the footwell, you will find your perfect driving position in a cinch.

As far as street impressions were concerned, we only bothered with two modes: sport+ and fully disabled traction control. Only two real highlights I had. In sport+, the transmission does a great job of working on its own, and the traction intervention threshold is surprisingly lax with a very mild presence after it finally kicks in.

With everything disabled, I had the opportunity to see how the back end would handle a heavy foot in low speed situations (with nobody nearby for safety concerns, of course). I was surprised by how smooth the overall transition into and out of oversteer was. It's all very natural, and I even had one of those golden moments where the chassis just mildly oversteers without really exceeding the limits, like the tail followed the nose perfectly while pivoting around a central Z-axis. Did I notice the lack of an LSD? Honestly, yes. When you're powering out of those corners, it still gets a bit scrappy and the tail still does a bit of wagging. Was it anywhere near as pronounced as the behavior in my 335i? Not even close.

Would I still want an LSD if I bought one? If you're thinking of tracking it, probably. But it hardly felt necessary for street use based on my limited experience. But man, if there's one thing that surprised me, it was that auto. I would get that car with an auto instead of manual. They pair too well to pass up.

nice write up. and the tranny nicer that the vw dsg, that is saying something!

beers

OppoLock · Oct 17, 2014

JoeDogInKC said:
Have you been able to drive an S550 yet? I'm curious your thoughts between the M235i and S550 if you have.

I haven't, but I definitely want to do a detailed write up and cover all of the points that have been important to the forum. It looks like other owners have done a great job of covering everything already. I'd really like to focus on the driving behavior if I get the chance.

Swoope said:
nice write up. and the tranny nicer that the vw dsg, that is saying something!

beers

Thanks! And for as much hyperbole as I threw in there, I'm really not exaggerating when it came to that comparison. It almost made me reconsider my choice of vehicles.

But I'm tired of BMW for the time being. I've got plenty of time down the road to get a car that's all staid and conservative.

hangover · Oct 19, 2014

Hmmm

wjones14 · Oct 23, 2014

OppoLock said:
Your upcoming test drive is well timed, because I'd like to see what your opinion is like.

OppoLock, I did drive an hour this past weekend to test drive a new M235i 6-speed manual. But before I went I learned that the car was actually owned by the salesman! He just bought it the previous week and it had 600 miles on it. On the phone he said that he would give me a ride. When I got there, he said he was in a good mood, and was willing to let me drive it. But, I didn't feel right doing that. He was a really nice guy for one thing, a massive car enthusiast like me, and I could tell he was pretty OCD about his car too, so I was fine to just ride shotgun.

His car was pretty much loaded. He even added several M accessories, including the LSD, performance exhaust, rear diffuser, front splitter, carbon fiber mirror caps and interior trim, and blacked out front grills. It was the Alpine White with black leather, and really nice.

My first impression was that the exhaust sounded amazing, particularly when he lifted off the throttle. It was burbling and popping like an IndyCar. I was not expecting the exhaust note to sound as sporty and raw as that. Some of it was the $1100 M performance exhaust for sure, but he claimed the stock exhaust had the same burbling sound, just not quite the same tone and a little quieter. It sounds like it means business.

As it passenger, it just seemed like everything was effortless. No body roll at all, but the ride was not stiff either. The acceleration is strong and linear, and I couldn't detect any turbo lag. It felt quicker than my '05 GT without a doubt.

The interior is luxury car quality. Soft where it should be, and high quality everywhere. The seats are terrific. Held me right in place while he was cornering hard. It's a pleasure to ride in the car.

When we got back, I spec'd a car with the Technology Package (includes Nav), red leather interior, and rear camera. With White paint the MSRP was $48,600. He discounted it by about $1500, and after taxes and all was said and done, the deal would be my car plus $40,000 to get the M235i.

Hope to drive one myself maybe this weekend. A dealer closer to me has an xDrive automatic on the lot. I'll see if I can test drive it, even though I have no intention of getting xDrive (AWD) or automatic. I will report back when I drive it.

wjones14 · Oct 26, 2014

I test drove a 2015 Mustang GT Premium and a BMW M235i yesterday back-to-back. The Mustang was a 6-speed without Performance Pack - the only options were the 20" wheels and security system. It had 120 miles on it. The M235i was an xDrive with the automatic. It had 4 miles on it.

I drove each car about 10 miles.

Mustang:

It's still sexy. The pictures on the Internet may look Fusion-ish, but in person there's no mistaking it for anything but a Mustang. It's really a lot LESS different from '14 than I thought it would be. The 20" 265/35 tires are huge - it's a nice option if you don't get the PP.
it's a super-refined version of what I have. Outward visibility is similar, though the rear quarter bulges out a lot more in the outside mirror. The interior is much higher quality than mine. The seats were really comfortable and held me in nicely.
Putting the pedal to floor does not seem as dramatic as my '05 - the front end on mine lifts up and the engine snorts loudly. The 2015 pulls harder and more instantly, but there's little drama to it, and not a lot of noise. It's more smooth and effortless.
The technology is insane. We couldn't figure out how to turn the heater on/off. ;) Getting to know the buttons and switches will be a big learning curve.
The controls are much lower effort than mine - the clutch, shifter, and brake all require less effort.
The car is bigger than ever. I took it on one average size back road, and felt like it was taking up the whole lane.
There was really no opportunity to throw it around corners, but if I were to get one, I would definitely get the PP so there wasn't much point in finding the cornering limit during this test drive. The new suspension soaked up bumps impressively. It was a quite comfortable ride.
High points - acceleration, refinement, technology

BMW M235i:

It's conservative looking compared to the Mustang. The average person is not going to see much difference between this and a normal 3-series coupe. Its looks belie the performance - in other words, it's a sleeper.
I thought I would miss the V8 power, but honestly, this car is faster than mine without a doubt. Acceleration is instant, even from low rpm. The exhaust note even sounds great, especially when you lift and it burbles and pops.
The steering wheel is absolutely perfect. I've never felt one so thick. It's a small diameter and only 2.2 turns lock-to-lock, so it really turns quick, almost darty.
The salesman took me on a windy, bumpy back road - sort of a torture test, and encouraged me to go full out. I couldn't find the limit. It just stuck on every corner and the bumps did not upset it at all.
It didn't seem as daunting, tech-wise, as the Mustang. There are a lot fewer switches. That said, the iDrive controls are not intuitive, so there's a big learning curve there. Switching modes between eco, normal, sport, and sport+ was super simple, with a rocker switch next to the shifter.
This car is luxurious inside. The quality of the seats and all other materials is what you would expect from a car in this price range. There's an attention to detail that's quite evident. Everything from the sound of the door shutting to the key chimes sounds expensive.
It's nimble. Yes, it's close to 3500 pounds, but it is a foot shorter and 6" narrower than the Mustang, and feels more tossable. That weight is about the same as my '05, but this car just feels a lot smaller and lighter.

Pricing:

I was able to get a $1500 discount if I ordered an M235i, without really negotiating. MSRP for leather interior, navigation, and rear camera was $48,600, and the offered price was $47,100.
The Ford dealer offered a $1100 discount if I ordered a Mustang GT Premium with PP, Premier Trim, and Navigation. MSRP was $40610, and the offered price was $39,500.

Bottom line:

If money was no object, I'd take the M235i. It's moving a up a level in terms of quality and engineering. You'll impress the corporate types when you give them a ride in this car. OTOH, the Mustang is sexier and is going to attract more attention from the general public. It's more in-your-face. It's also by far a better value, with the rear camera and many other features being standard.

If you want to stand out in the crowd (at least for now while it's new), and have a car that's more powerful than 99% of the cars on the road, the Mustang is your choice. If you want something that's more elite, but conservative, with impeccable manners, the BMW is your choice. Be prepared to spend about $8K more on the BMW, depending how you option it.

Barrel · Oct 27, 2014

The Ford dealer offered a $1100 discount if I ordered a Mustang GT Premium with PP, Premier Trim, and Navigation. MSRP was $40610, and the offered price was $39,500.

X-Plan brings the price even lower for the Ford.

MadMoose · Oct 28, 2014

Barrel said:
X-Plan brings the price even lower for the Ford.

you can also get another 2-3k off the BMW via USAA or negotiating plus rebates

Dave2013M3 · Oct 28, 2014

wjones14 said:
I test drove a 2015 Mustang GT Premium and a BMW M235i yesterday back-to-back. The Mustang was a 6-speed without Performance Pack - the only options were the 20" wheels and security system. It had 120 miles on it. The M235i was an xDrive with the automatic. It had 4 miles on it.

I drove each car about 10 miles.

Mustang:

It's still sexy. The pictures on the Internet may look Fusion-ish, but in person there's no mistaking it for anything but a Mustang. It's really a lot LESS different from '14 than I thought it would be. The 20" 265/35 tires are huge - it's a nice option if you don't get the PP.

it's a super-refined version of what I have. Outward visibility is similar, though the rear quarter bulges out a lot more in the outside mirror. The interior is much higher quality than mine. The seats were really comfortable and held me in nicely.

Putting the pedal to floor does not seem as dramatic as my '05 - the front end on mine lifts up and the engine snorts loudly. The 2015 pulls harder and more instantly, but there's little drama to it, and not a lot of noise. It's more smooth and effortless.

The technology is insane. We couldn't figure out how to turn the heater on/off. ;) Getting to know the buttons and switches will be a big learning curve.

The controls are much lower effort than mine - the clutch, shifter, and brake all require less effort.

The car is bigger than ever. I took it on one average size back road, and felt like it was taking up the whole lane.

There was really no opportunity to throw it around corners, but if I were to get one, I would definitely get the PP so there wasn't much point in finding the cornering limit during this test drive. The new suspension soaked up bumps impressively. It was a quite comfortable ride.

High points - acceleration, refinement, technology

BMW M235i:

It's conservative looking compared to the Mustang. The average person is not going to see much difference between this and a normal 3-series coupe. Its looks belie the performance - in other words, it's a sleeper.

I thought I would miss the V8 power, but honestly, this car is faster than mine without a doubt. Acceleration is instant, even from low rpm. The exhaust note even sounds great, especially when you lift and it burbles and pops.

The steering wheel is absolutely perfect. I've never felt one so thick. It's a small diameter and only 2.2 turns lock-to-lock, so it really turns quick, almost darty.

The salesman took me on a windy, bumpy back road - sort of a torture test, and encouraged me to go full out. I couldn't find the limit. It just stuck on every corner and the bumps did not upset it at all.

It didn't seem as daunting, tech-wise, as the Mustang. There are a lot fewer switches. That said, the iDrive controls are not intuitive, so there's a big learning curve there. Switching modes between eco, normal, sport, and sport+ was super simple, with a rocker switch next to the shifter.

This car is luxurious inside. The quality of the seats and all other materials is what you would expect from a car in this price range. There's an attention to detail that's quite evident. Everything from the sound of the door shutting to the key chimes sounds expensive.

It's nimble. Yes, it's close to 3500 pounds, but it is a foot shorter and 6" narrower than the Mustang, and feels more tossable. That weight is about the same as my '05, but this car just feels a lot smaller and lighter.

Pricing:

I was able to get a $1500 discount if I ordered an M235i, without really negotiating. MSRP for leather interior, navigation, and rear camera was $48,600, and the offered price was $47,100.

The Ford dealer offered a $1100 discount if I ordered a Mustang GT Premium with PP, Premier Trim, and Navigation. MSRP was $40610, and the offered price was $39,500.

Bottom line:

If money was no object, I'd take the M235i. It's moving a up a level in terms of quality and engineering. You'll impress the corporate types when you give them a ride in this car. OTOH, the Mustang is sexier and is going to attract more attention from the general public. It's more in-your-face. It's also by far a better value, with the rear camera and many other features being standard.

If you want to stand out in the crowd (at least for now while it's new), and have a car that's more powerful than 99% of the cars on the road, the Mustang is your choice. If you want something that's more elite, but conservative, with impeccable manners, the BMW is your choice. Be prepared to spend about $8K more on the BMW, depending how you option it.

You should be able to get a M235i for $500 over invoice without trying to hard. It would be just over $45K.

Dave

w3rkn · Oct 29, 2014

Not sure the collusion, or what exactly is going on...
But, over the last 3 days I have had many intrusion attempts and two successful attempts to get past my firewall... that all originated from Germany.

Then, not only am I BANNED from BimmerPosts (last week), but as of this morning I am unable to view the site as they blocked my IP address. Coincidence?

I mentioned earlier in this thread (which got deleted by admin here) that BimmerPosts own rules were stretched to ban certain enthusiasts, such as myself.

Notably because I mention Mustang, or Corvette while taking an honest stab at BMW. While the same time, notables can start Audi threads & offer the same rebuttals, but that is 100% ok, because comparing BMW to an Audi.. are still 2 German cars. But don't mention an American Mustang, or an American Corvette.. because then Germany looses out. So they protect their own interests.

Lastly, I think the Mustang vs M235i is moot.

The M235i won't even be made next year and the car starts at $44k without a $3k LSD. BMW themselves can't hide this fact, and most Europeans didn't know about the availability of a new Mustang there, & BMW is trying their best, to silence that, & over market itself to the press, for their own pricing gaffs.

Those who got a M235i are the standouts, as their BMW will be as rare as a 135is... a 1 year production run.

OppoLock · Oct 29, 2014

w3rkn said:
Not sure the collusion, or what exactly is going on...
But, over the last 3 days I have had many intrusion attempts and two successful attempts to get past my firewall... that all originated from Germany.

Then, not only am I BANNED from BimmerPosts (last week), but as of this morning I am unable to view the site as they blocked my IP address. Coincidence?

I mentioned earlier in this thread (which got deleted by admin here) that BimmerPosts own rules were stretched to ban certain enthusiasts, such as myself.

Notably because I mention Mustang, or Corvette while taking an honest stab at BMW. While the same time, notables can start Audi threads & offer the same rebuttals, but that is 100% ok, because comparing BMW to an Audi.. are still 2 German cars. But don't mention an American Mustang, or an American Corvette.. because then Germany looses out. So they protect their own interests.

Lastly, I think the Mustang vs M235i is moot.

The M235i won't even be made next year and the car starts at $44k without a $3k LSD. BMW themselves can't hide this fact, and most Europeans didn't know about the availability of a new Mustang there, & BMW is trying their best, to silence that, & over market itself to the press, for their own pricing gaffs.

Those who got a M235i are the standouts, as their BMW will be as rare as a 135is... a 1 year production run.

FYI, I had a short-term ban from Bimmerpost way back in the day. They ban your IP, not just your account.

wjones14 · Oct 30, 2014

w3rkn said:
Lastly, I think the Mustang vs M235i is moot.

The M235i won't even be made next year and the car starts at $44k without a $3k LSD.

Wow, I did not realize this was the last year for the M235i...

Still, I really loved the 235. Maybe it's just because I've had a Mustang GT since 1992, and before that had three Z28s. I'm just thinking about a change. True, the M235i is no bargain, but which BMW is?

Cross-shopping the S550 GT with a BMW M235i

Todd15Fastback

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OppoLock

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OppoLock

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JoeDogInKC

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Swoope

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OppoLock

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hangover

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wjones14

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wjones14

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Barrel

Hoonigan

MadMoose

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Dave2013M3

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w3rkn

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OppoLock

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wjones14

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