Second HPDE In July - Brake Question for Mach 1

[Roady68]

Quick question. I did HPDE at Watkins Glen last year with my 2023 Mach 1 (non HP) and the car was bone stock. Looking at doing another in July and considering maybe upgrading brakes. I was looking at the two piece rotor set (front and rear) and G-LOC R8 compound pads. Are changes to the rear necessary or should I just focus on the front. Do I need the rotors? Can I just swap pads? If I use stock rotors in rear with two piece front, I assume I should use same compound in pads front and rear. The first event I did I used the stock brakes and I was hard on them at first and they did give off some brake smell, especially the first couple of sessions. I am also doing some wrenching this weekend to swap the brake fluid with the Motul. I will be driving to the track and the R8 compound seemed to be the best for that. I am open to other thoughts. I can swap brakes at the track but not sure how long it will take me. Maybe I will do a couple practice pit brake changes. Any other suggestions for small parts I may need? I am adding the retaining hardware to my cart.

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[VictorH]

Couple of questions first
1) What is your track experience level?
2) What tires are you running on the track?

If number 1 is advanced beginner and number 2 is street tires, then I would suggest staying with the stock set up. Your car has the good Brembo 6 piston calipers up front right? The stock pads are really pretty good, particularly if you are running high-performance street tires. Switching brake fluid as you are doing is a good idea and Motul is good fluid.

Once you get more advanced (maybe you are already) and you start running sticky DOT track tires, then it's worth considering a brake upgrade. Step one would be track pads, both front and rear. Tons of options out there for just about any budget. Next step beyond that would be two piece rotors front and back. I'd suggest to just go top tier and get a set of Girodisc front and rear, but at that point your probably going to commit to running more than a couple of track days.

 

[SBR70.3]

Ya, this 100% depends on how hard you push/brake the car. Personally, I do not think the R8 is enough for this 3800lb pig. If you do want to use the R8, you are more than fine driving to the track with them. I would bring your stock pads and a caliper compressor just in case you burn through them and need to drive home. I used R12 front and R10 rear last season and moved to R16/R10 this year. Two track days on it and love it. Brake cooling is super important, otherwise you will burn through the pads quickly. I use Vorschlag brake deflectors and titanium brake shims. Those, combined with the Steeda 2 piece rotors keep my brakes happy.

What tires are you using? Tires should match the brakes.

 

[KilgoreLSU]

Repeating a lot of above post..

I was at Road Atlanta last weekend and it was pushing high 80's.. so it was hot... I am in HPDE3.. I'm pretty fast or at least getting faster each run and braking harder, etc..

My brakes ended up overheating the fluid.. Motul 600.. First time that has happened to me. Pretty much lost my brakes, but I came off as I felt them getting really soft. We had to hook up to a computer and purge my ABS before I had brakes again. The bubbles we think went in there.

I went and talked to a guy that does Time Trials with his wife with a pair of GT350's.. He runs fast and hard.. Wins his group often...

His advice after looking at my brakes...

Bigger deflector... Bigger than Vorshlag. They are not hard to bend and shape in aluminum....
2 piece Rotors.. he recommended Girodisc.. read up on them.. a lot of people use them
Brake pads I already do Hawk DTC 60 in fronts and DTC 30 in back.. he said to go with DTC 60 for both.. 2 piece rotors last longer, so some of the cost will be offset by this.

He told me that he has had no problems with this setup for years and his customers do the same thing.

Good luck and I'm so glad I came in as soon as they felt soft.

 

[GTP]

I ran OEM pads on Performance Package brakes, and now with GT350 brakes. Other pads bite harder and could stop shorter, but I like the modulation feel with these. I buy take-off pads, too. A GT350 instructor fully agreed with this approach, especially for the feel on the pedal. Besides IMO it really comes down to threshold braking, then trail braking, and I find myself getting very close to the car ahead at times.

I run Bamberg air deflectors which are larger than Vorshlag. Rotor temp typically is 400F max.

2 piece rotors .. it's your money but you will replace them as often as you monitor the cracks pattern. Yes I understand the difference in heat transfer.

I ran OEM fluid for a couple seasons no problem and now I run ATE200 also with no issues.

I'd say I'm middle trending to upper intermediate driver.

 

[DRAGOON]

Like all above, what tires are you using on the track ? I run 200 TW with stock discs, pads and the Ford Dot 4 LV High performance Brake fluid. The front pad must be the MR3Z-2001-C pad ( which is the OG pad that came on my HP ) not the stock stock pad. I run Philip’s (GTP) air deflectors. I have 29 track days on OG rotors with no noticeable wear, on my 3rd set of front pads and 2nd set of rears. I’m posting because I use all Ford brake components and are happy with them. If, and that’s a big if, I go to takeoff slicks, the above 2 piece rotors and some carbotech R16/12 pads with my stock calipers, seperated brake/ clutch reservoirs since I have the 3 pedal car.

 

[Roady68]

Thanks for all the comments. Car is perfectly stock, has about 6000 miles on the tires. Its a NON HP 2023 Mach 1. So has the Brembo brakes. This will be the second time tracking at Watkins Glen. Only third time I have tracked a Mustang. Looks like maybe just swapping the brake fluid.

 

[GTP]

TBH at this point I would make sure I had camber plates and a good alignment ready for the track. I made several posts on the subject. Tire management is a big deal.

 

[LFSoccer2k6]

I have 12k in mine and have done 6 track days. I’m using OEM rotors and pads and they still have plenty left in them. I’ve only made sure to use a tire (Cup 2) so far. Switching to a Potenza RE-71RS for my next one in October.

 

[luc]

As many have said, it all depends on on how fast you are but here are a few brake “rules”
Do not use the same compound front and rear . Front need to be more aggressive
There is a difference between brake fade and overheating the brake fluid
Pads are rated by their optimal temperature range
If you use pads that have a lower temperature range that what they are experiencing, you get brake fade, normal brake pedal feel but decreasing braking force
Fluid overheating :
The pads material is a great heat insulator, the less pad thickness you have, the more heat you are transferring to the backing plate, the pistons and then the fluid
Pedal get softer and softer and can go all the way to the floor
Reason for it is that the moisture in the fluid turn from a liquid to a gas and obviously a gas is compressible
I never use track pads past 50% wear

 

[NightmareMoon]

If you had brake fade and a soft pedal with Motul, I’d just ask when the Motul was changed last. You sometimes need to bleed or even flush brake fluid between run days or even sessions.

I’ve boiled motul fluid before but I was being extremly agressive trying to chase down a GT3 and the fluid was not as fresh as it should have been. My fault for showing up underprepared.

GLOC R12/R10 here. I also wouldnt do R8.

Had good luck with Steeda slotted 2 piece rotors. Last set lasted a long while and I actually tossed them for minimum thickness with no cracking at all. Vorshlag deflectors and oversized splitter ducting to feed them. I try not to abuse the brakes too badly on track. I brake very hard but a little mechanical empathy and backing off 5% in the braking zones does a world of good for your brake fluid and pads.

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