GT350 Engine Refresh Time!

[nastang87xx]

Thanks for the info. Should we all be using Amsoil 15w50?

Stay 5w50.

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[honeybadger]

Thanks for the info. Should we all be using Amsoil 15w50?

I'd stick with a 5W-50 oil for street. 15w is pretty heavy when cold - bit too much for street use.

I'm not really the one to ask, but I think he chose that for his specific build and purpose (dedicated track car). I would assume for a street car you'd want to continue to run 5W-50

Correct. Dominator is higher in Zinc and much better at not shearing than a traditional street oil.

Stay 5w50.

Agreed

 

[honeybadger]

Here's a preliminary list to get you started. There's so many little bits and bobs that I didn't include (such using ARP bolts -- I think I invested $800 in bolts alone). I can build out a bigger spreadsheet at some point if ya'll are interested in that level of depth.

Option 1 – OEM rotating assembly refresh

· Bearings – $160 ($15-20 per cylinder)

· Pistons – $1,200 ($110-200 per piston)

· Piston Rings – $280 ($35 per cylinder)

· Piston pin - $80

· Chain guides + tensioner arms - $70

· Secondary timing chain tensioner - $60 ($30 each)

· Timing chains - $110

Parts from Autonation

Total: $2,000



Option 2 – Reliability upgrades for valve train

· MMR billet chain guides kit - $399

· MMR billet chain tensioners - $229

· Ford Performance upgrade secondary tensioners - $99

· Ford Performance FP350S Valve Train upgrade kit - $1,699 (includes solid steel valves, stiffer PAC racing springs, bronze guides, and Ti retainers)

· Boundary OPG/Crank Sprocket - $300

Total: $2,726

First of note - it was recommend to me by 2 builders NOT to hone this block because of the plasma arc coating. If it's in good shape and your rings/pistons aren't screwed, just replace bearings, screws, opg, etc. and go. If the cylinder walls are toast, get a new block or sleeve your current one.

You'll also note that I didn't include aftermarket pistons or rods. I am running Carillo billet rods and custom Diamond pistons, but I wouldn't go this far without doing major block work purely because the OEM stuff is already forged and I didn't think the gains were worth it unless going full out.

Finally, in regards to the valve train stuff:
I'm WELL aware of MMR's rep and peoples' opinion about them. However, these *particular* parts seem very well made and I'm very impressed with them. They're in my motor and I am very happy with them.

Second, if your engine is going to see track abuse and you've already voided your warranty - MAKE THESE UPGRADES. The most common issues I've seen at the track are oil and valve train related. The OEM valve springs are adequate, but they're not "I'll-bet-my-20k-motor-on-them-good. Same goes with timing components. If any of this fails at high rpm, it will grenade the entire engine. Not worth the risk IMHO.

 

[AdamIsAdam]

Here's a preliminary list to get you started. There's so many little bits and bobs that I didn't include (such using ARP bolts -- I think I invested $800 in bolts alone). I can build out a bigger spreadsheet at some point if ya'll are interested in that level of depth.

Option 1 – OEM rotating assembly refresh

· Bearings – $160 ($15-20 per cylinder)

· Pistons – $1,200 ($110-200 per piston)

· Piston Rings – $280 ($35 per cylinder)

· Piston pin - $80

· Chain guides + tensioner arms - $70

· Secondary timing chain tensioner - $60 ($30 each)

· Timing chains - $110

Parts from Autonation

Total: $2,000



Option 2 – Reliability upgrades for valve train

· MMR billet chain guides kit - $399

· MMR billet chain tensioners - $229

· Ford Performance upgrade secondary tensioners - $99

· Ford Performance FP350S Valve Train upgrade kit - $1,699 (includes solid steel valves, stiffer PAC racing springs, bronze guides, and Ti retainers)

· Boundary OPG/Crank Sprocket - $300

Total: $2,726

First of note - it was recommend to me by 2 builders NOT to hone this block because of the plasma arc coating. If it's in good shape and your rings/pistons aren't screwed, just replace bearings, screws, opg, etc. and go. If the cylinder walls are toast, get a new block or sleeve your current one.

You'll also note that I didn't include aftermarket pistons or rods. I am running Carillo billet rods and custom Diamond pistons, but I wouldn't go this far without doing major block work purely because the OEM stuff is already forged and I didn't think the gains were worth it unless going full out.

Finally, in regards to the valve train stuff:
I'm WELL aware of MMR's rep and peoples' opinion about them. However, these *particular* parts seem very well made and I'm very impressed with them. They're in my motor and I am very happy with them.

Second, if your engine is going to see track abuse and you've already voided your warranty - MAKE THESE UPGRADES. The most common issues I've seen at the track are oil and valve train related. The OEM valve springs are adequate, but they're not "I'll-bet-my-20k-motor-on-them-good. Same goes with timing components. If any of this fails at high rpm, it will grenade the entire engine. Not worth the risk IMHO.

Nice list, thanks for sharing. How much power are you making? Got a dyno sheet? (If that's too personal because you are racing, I understand.)

 

[TDC]

Billet aluminum rods?

 

[nastang87xx]

Billet aluminum rods?

Billet? No no no, our factory rods are legit smash forged in an actual forged press with spit ends.

EDIT, nevermind, now I know what you mean.

 

[honeybadger]

Nice list, thanks for sharing. How much power are you making? Got a dyno sheet? (If that's too personal because you are racing, I understand.)

The engine makes ~540whp on e85 on a conservative tune (it never goes above 28* of timing). We have tunes for E85, 100 octane, and 93. Run E85% over 90% of the time since it's cheap and burns so clean. Really just put 100 in when I want to "clear it" of moisture.

Here's a couple dyno graphs from break-in day.

Billet aluminum rods?

Arghh, I never get it right the first time. They're Callie billet rods (steel). View attachment 401323

 

[nastang87xx]

What I find amazing is how you were able to get that awful torque dip in the 3000RPM range out of the torque curve and it's so smooth.

 

[Demonic]

How often do you expect to have to change out the Ti valve retainers?

 

[honeybadger]

What I find amazing is how you were able to get that awful torque dip in the 3000RPM range out of the torque curve and it's so smooth.

You definitely feel it. Worth it for sure. Motor is buttery smooth and ultra responsive. Perfect for track use.

How often do you expect to have to change out the Ti valve retainers?

They recommend once a season.

 

[Demonic]

They recommend once a season.

Yeah that's why I was wondering whether you were going to go through the pain of swapping retainers every season haha.

 

[nastang87xx]

Did you phasers need replacing too?

 

[honeybadger]

Did you phasers need replacing too?

They didn't need it, but I did it. I replaced them with the versions that are on the R.

 

[olaosunt]

Here's a preliminary list to get you started. There's so many little bits and bobs that I didn't include (such using ARP bolts -- I think I invested $800 in bolts alone). I can build out a bigger spreadsheet at some point if ya'll are interested in that level of depth.

Option 1 – OEM rotating assembly refresh

· Bearings – $160 ($15-20 per cylinder)

· Pistons – $1,200 ($110-200 per piston)

· Piston Rings – $280 ($35 per cylinder)

· Piston pin - $80

· Chain guides + tensioner arms - $70

· Secondary timing chain tensioner - $60 ($30 each)

· Timing chains - $110

Parts from Autonation

Total: $2,000



Option 2 – Reliability upgrades for valve train

· MMR billet chain guides kit - $399

· MMR billet chain tensioners - $229

· Ford Performance upgrade secondary tensioners - $99

· Ford Performance FP350S Valve Train upgrade kit - $1,699 (includes solid steel valves, stiffer PAC racing springs, bronze guides, and Ti retainers)

· Boundary OPG/Crank Sprocket - $300

Total: $2,726

First of note - it was recommend to me by 2 builders NOT to hone this block because of the plasma arc coating. If it's in good shape and your rings/pistons aren't screwed, just replace bearings, screws, opg, etc. and go. If the cylinder walls are toast, get a new block or sleeve your current one.

You'll also note that I didn't include aftermarket pistons or rods. I am running Carillo billet rods and custom Diamond pistons, but I wouldn't go this far without doing major block work purely because the OEM stuff is already forged and I didn't think the gains were worth it unless going full out.

Finally, in regards to the valve train stuff:
I'm WELL aware of MMR's rep and peoples' opinion about them. However, these *particular* parts seem very well made and I'm very impressed with them. They're in my motor and I am very happy with them.

Second, if your engine is going to see track abuse and you've already voided your warranty - MAKE THESE UPGRADES. The most common issues I've seen at the track are oil and valve train related. The OEM valve springs are adequate, but they're not "I'll-bet-my-20k-motor-on-them-good. Same goes with timing components. If any of this fails at high rpm, it will grenade the entire engine. Not worth the risk IMHO.

@honeybadger . Thanks again for being such a pioneer . I have screen shot for future reference .

If you are planning to go FI I would suggest at least upgrading the rods .Even though are a “forged” I did bend a couple running a Gen 5 whipple and 3.5 pulley . I know others have not had issues at higher boost levels but might as well since no additional labor and the Voodoo specific Manley rods (rated at >750 hp with 2000 bolts ) are cheap .
Also note Ford changed the design of the pistons for 2019 and the stock pistons now cost a lot more .....so much you might as well upgrade .
Rings are also no longer available for the older version pistons .

I sent Will @ RPG Tunning my long block and its going back into the car as we speak with upgraded clutch .
Block had to be sleeved and was rebuild with diamond pistons and Manley rods.
Heads have New valves , upgraded PAC springs and ARP head studs
Engine already had upgraded OPG/CS .
Total cost a lot less than you would think .

 

[olaosunt]

I am also in the process of planning a “spare” build .
I got a quote for $3K sending a “spare “ complete engine I have for a rod upgrade but I would also at least upgrade the springs

I also have a rotating assembly ./crank/heads/cams I may send to assemble into a long block (with upgraded rods -( may be I will do the ultralight rods in that one )
I want to use new predator block as starting platform since it has all the upgrades for the GT500/Boost .
I would have liked to also use the Gen 2 heads but have to draw the line somewhere . Lol

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