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Jmeo

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Is there something that I can attempt to explain better?

If you look at the Reische T stat it works in the exact way the OEM one does. If you look at the Even Flow T Stat it works differently because it has holes drilled in the diaphragm allowing water to sneak by at all times. Can you explain why yours does this and what would be the benefit of this?

Thank you for stepping in to answer our questions.

Jaime
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evo8904

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You are looking at cars of varied mod levels in different areas of the country. It is scientifically impossible. Here is a simple test, take both tstats and drop them in a pot of water and heat up the water. The 160° will open earlier than the 170°, 178° and 205°. Opening earlier indicates that the engine will cool faster.
Per my previous post. I have a 170 degree thermostat and my temps are around 185 degree. I have a Whipple SC and catless Kooks headers. That is even after doing multiple 3rd and 4th gear pulls and line locks.

The 160 degree thermostat should work better but I haven't seen anyone post any results showing that it does.
 

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Is there a specific question here outside of proposed conspiracy theory?
Yeah. Why sell us hotsided thermostats for a cold sided system? What is their reasoning for thinking it would work better? Personally i just used to run Reische for all my mod motors. I didnt used to see threads like this its gotten my interest. Im not being told why their design is better. The pot test doesnt show enough for me.
 

Livernois Motorsports

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Hey Jaime, I am a little confused by your statement.

Here is a pic of the 170° unit:


Are you referring to these?


If these are the passages that you are there referring to they are not allowing anything to "pass thru". They allow the tstat to open more quickly.
 

Higgs Boson

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Yeah. Why sell us hotsided thermostats for a cold sided system? What is their reasoning for thinking it would work better? Personally i just used to run Reische for all my mod motors. I didnt used to see threads like this its gotten my interest. Im not being told why their design is better. The pot test doesnt show enough for me.
Ok, first can you point out to me where you are getting a "hot side" vs "cold side" terminology or debate?

The answer to that question could change my perspective on this topic so with that......

A thermostat works the same in all engines. The pot test simply shows when the thermostat opens so that is really all that is needed to compare opening temps.

It seems like there is some confusion as to what hot side vs cold side means....most vehicles do not display Cylinder Head Temps, many do not even measure them. The typical reading is Engine Coolant Temp, which is not measured in the head, but in a cooler area, sometimes the radiator or near the thermostat. This does not change the system from cold side to hot side, that doesn't even make sense, there is no such thing.

Naturally the CHT will read higher than ECT since that is where combustion is taking place and would be the hottest point of the engine, and also subject to more temperature variation due to changes in AF ratios, spark timing, power levels, etc etc.

All a thermostat does is determine the temperature FLOOR of the engine. The rated temp is when the thermostat BEGINS to open, they do not snap open and closed at the rated temp. They are designed to remain closed to block coolant flow until the temp is reached and then open over a period of 15 degrees or so until fully open. Where the temperature sensor is located/measured does not have anything to do with the thermostat. At all.

On my car, which is an Auto without Performance Package, CHT stock was 210-220 and with the 160 are 200-215. The auto trans fluid and the smaller radiator most likely limit the avg cooling ability of the system/radiator vs a PP manual setup. My ECTs logged with HPT are 10-15 degrees colder than my CHT, which is what I would expect with a 160 thermostat in my area (altitude, humidity, temps). ECTs are in the 190s, which is a bit warmer than my C7 with a 160 stat, but it is a manual with a better radiator than the Mustang.

There are a lot of variables in play when it comes to a cooling system's efficiency. Obviously ambient temperature and power levels but also humidity and altitude. Air density and moisture content will alter the ability of the radiator to perform so comparing mine to yours, Florida to Texas, humid sea level vs less humid 1500 ft up.....your radiator is probably doing a much better job than mine. I have seen guys in the Carolinas as well reporting much cooler ECTs on their stock Corvettes vs mine when it was stock. Very much like comparing dyno numbers, pretty pointless.

By the way, the stock thermostat is a 180.....moving to a 170 is not going to do much, moving to a 160 is also not going to be night and day. My stock C7 thermostat was a 194 so moving to a 160 made a pretty big difference.
 

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I found some good info here.
http://www.f150ecoboost.net/forum/36-eco-power-parts/3729-thermostats-your-f150.html

the differences between "hot-side" vs "cold-side" application.



So in the hot-side system the thermostat is placed pre-radiator: coolant flows in from the side (GREEN/RED) and, depending on it's temp, coolant is directed either up to the radiator to be chilled or if the coolant is not hot enough, the thermostat stays closed and the coolant is directed down through the bypass to recirculate. Of course the thermostat will often run partially open, directing a little coolant to both paths.



In the cold-side system coolant flows the opposite direction and the thermostat is post-radiator: Unlike a hot-side thermostat, the bypass control (brass bottom) is not attached to the upper assembly/diaphragm and does not move when the thermostat opens. It maintains contact so the bypass coolant can only flow up through the inside of the pipe, keeping the heat motor in direct contact with the bypass coolant temperature so the thermostat can function properly at all times. When the bypass coolant is hot enough the thermostat opens (bringing in chilled coolant from the radiator - BLUE); this also pushes the heat motor further down into the pipe which closes off the holes in the pipe for the bypass (RED) and shields it from the chilled coolant. However a small amount of bypass coolant is allowed to flow across the heat motor at all times so it can still monitor and respond to changes in the coolant temp.

A hot-side thermostat can function in a cold-side setup to a large degree but there are some drawbacks: When the thermostat opens some of the chilled coolant will mix in and expose the heat motor to cooler temps then it should be seeing to operate properly. Cooler temps then force the thermostat to start closing prematurely and once this happens, the hot bypass coolant will then start to make it open back up... and the cycle repeats. Another issue is the thermostat will always struggle to stay fully open because as soon as the bypass is completely shut off, the heat motor will no longer be exposed to hot coolant, forcing it to close again. The LMS/Even Flo thermostat attempts to address this by placing 4 holes in the bypass valve but then you always have a good amount of coolant recirculating through the bypass instead of being directed through the radiator as it should be.

In my own real world testing with a hot-side thermostat in a cold-side application I found the primary drawback was the way it handled changing conditions. You could see a nice stable temp cruising down the freeway but as soon as you exited and started slowing down to a stop the temp would immediately spike up and it took a little time for it to re-stabilize and cool back down.
Ok, first can you point out to me where you are getting a "hot side" vs "cold side" terminology or debate?

The answer to that question could change my perspective on this topic so with that......

A thermostat works the same in all engines. The pot test simply shows when the thermostat opens so that is really all that is needed to compare opening temps.

It seems like there is some confusion as to what hot side vs cold side means....most vehicles do not display Cylinder Head Temps, many do not even measure them. The typical reading is Engine Coolant Temp, which is not measured in the head, but in a cooler area, sometimes the radiator or near the thermostat. This does not change the system from cold side to hot side, that doesn't even make sense, there is no such thing.

Naturally the CHT will read higher than ECT since that is where combustion is taking place and would be the hottest point of the engine, and also subject to more temperature variation due to changes in AF ratios, spark timing, power levels, etc etc.

All a thermostat does is determine the temperature FLOOR of the engine. The rated temp is when the thermostat BEGINS to open, they do not snap open and closed at the rated temp. They are designed to remain closed to block coolant flow until the temp is reached and then open over a period of 15 degrees or so until fully open. Where the temperature sensor is located/measured does not have anything to do with the thermostat. At all.

On my car, which is an Auto without Performance Package, CHT stock was 210-220 and with the 160 are 200-215. The auto trans fluid and the smaller radiator most likely limit the avg cooling ability of the system/radiator vs a PP manual setup. My ECTs logged with HPT are 10-15 degrees colder than my CHT, which is what I would expect with a 160 thermostat in my area (altitude, humidity, temps). ECTs are in the 190s, which is a bit warmer than my C7 with a 160 stat, but it is a manual with a better radiator than the Mustang.

There are a lot of variables in play when it comes to a cooling system's efficiency. Obviously ambient temperature and power levels but also humidity and altitude. Air density and moisture content will alter the ability of the radiator to perform so comparing mine to yours, Florida to Texas, humid sea level vs less humid 1500 ft up.....your radiator is probably doing a much better job than mine. I have seen guys in the Carolinas as well reporting much cooler ECTs on their stock Corvettes vs mine when it was stock. Very much like comparing dyno numbers, pretty pointless.
see above post. Also thats what i had always thought but then i read that post above and it threw me for a loop.
 

gsxr1300

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This was my car a few weeks ago. Driving to work on a 50 degree day after 30 miles of cruise control at 70.


So I figured my tstat was defective or something, so ordered a EvenFlow 160 from Livernois. I pulled my tstat out and the new onelooked exactly like the one I took out. I placed both in a pot on the stove and both started opening at 160. So I put the new one in and now its running at 202 coolant and 212 cylinder head temps. And that is the same as when I have the stock tstat, so wondering why a 160 tstat has my car running at 202/210 in now 30 degree weather is what started me to do research on the different brands.
 

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see above post. Also thats what i had always thought but then i read that post above and it threw me for a loop.
according to other posts in that thread, the rated opening temp doesn't change,

but the coolant flows from the radiator to the thermostat to the block to the radiator

rather than from the block to the thermostat to the radiator to the block like normal

according to that thread this makes the thermostat open about 10 degrees higher than the normal setup (thanks a lot Ford).

it also mentions the CHT sensor reads about 10 degrees higher than ECT, which is what I have found also.

so everything operates about 10 degrees higher than we are used to with traditional thermostat locations vs the thermostat rating. Ok.

However, I guess we will need to defer to Livernois to confirm or deny Reische's claim that the thermostat construction opens/makes a difference when made specifically for this type of config........
 

Jmeo

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Hey Jaime, I am a little confused by your statement.



Here is a pic of the 170° unit:





Are you referring to these?





If these are the passages that you are there referring to they are not allowing anything to "pass thru". They allow the tstat to open more quickly.

Yea they are. Thank you for taking the time to help us understand. Admittedly I am not completely clear with how the system works other than the T stat opening at a certain temp.

The post about the hot vs cold side is what got me confused.
 

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The earlier that the tstat opens the greater the capacity is for cooling. That is the "debate". The other one is a mixture of how the OEM and/or how factory power adder car cooling systems are designed.
 

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The earlier that the tstat opens the greater the capacity is for cooling. That is the "debate". The other one is a mixture of how the OEM and/or how factory power adder car cooling systems are designed.
So the cold side issue is only on the EcoBoost?

or is there any merit to the thermostat build/functionality on the cold side being different than on the hot side?

To me it seems like it would make no difference at all as there is hot and cold coolant on either side of the stat regardless of it's location....
 

Jmeo

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So the cold side issue is only on the EcoBoost?



or is there any merit to the thermostat build/functionality on the cold side being different than on the hot side?



To me it seems like it would make no difference at all as there is hot and cold coolant on either side of the stat regardless of it's location....

I was under the same opinion. People are posting cooler temps with the Reische so I just was wondering how this could be with a T stat that opens 10° hotter, that's all.
 

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I was under the same opinion. People are posting cooler temps with the Reische so I just was wondering how this could be with a T stat that opens 10° hotter, that's all.
have to look at location, radiator, transmission, and mod level at a minimum to compare temps.... very hard to do scientifically.

outside of what people are posting, I would just like to know if the info quoted from the F150 thread is just marketing bs or real deal.....
 

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There is also a bypass part of the tstat that opens and closes on the stock and Reische and not the Evenflo it has the holes in the bottom that are always open..
 

Jmeo

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There is also a bypass part of the tstat that opens and closes on the stock and Reische and not the Evenflo it has the holes in the bottom that are always open..

Livernois pointed out the holes are on a mating service so they don't let fluid through they just help make T stat open sooner.
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