2015 EB 6mt vs Golf GTI

[Glenn G]

Was pulling out on the Autobahn with my buddy in the car. I got in the left lane behind another car and was waiting for him to complete his pass and move over. As he moved out of the way I saw a Golf GTI coming up behind me at a High rate of speed so I down shifted to 3rd and stomped on it. He got within about 2 car lengths (so within my Draft) before I got into 5th and simply annihilated him. He pulled out of the fast lane and let off when I was probably 10 car lengths ahead of him and increasing the gap fast, Well over 200 kph at this time.

Me Base non-pp Eco with MAP CAI and Cobb Access Port Stage 1 93 OTS tune,
No way to know what his mods were though he did hang with me until about 180 kph or so, So definitely not stock, I've driven Stock GTI's and they do not have that sort of acceleration on a roll.

too bad he never got in front of me or I'd have some Dash cam footage to share.

Can't wait for the rest of my MAP 1.5 kit to arrive and get an Adam tune!

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[Rogues Gambit]

Bitchin' man!

Idky anyone who doesn't have a small family would consider anything but a Mustang at this point, not many cars offer what they do for the $$$

 

[Nazgul]

If he was tuned he would have likely stayed with or pull you. There are stage 2 (intake, downpipe, tune) gtis that will walk a GT. The current mk7 weighs just about 3k lbs and at stage 2 tuning is seeing at least 310whp. I understand you're not stock, but stock for stock they are very close (talking a tenth or two) and if the car is dsg it will make up for any power differences with incredibly fast shifting.


I have a friend with a simple tune and he was really not that far off my gt when I was stock.

 

[Waylap1]

You do have to consider some things that we assume though when encounters like this happen. (Please don't think I'm saying you didn't totally dust him)
The other driver may not have been going all out. He was definetly moving right along and came up on you hard but then you also floor it and go full race mode putting some distance between you. He may not have got the memo that $hit just got real and he just entered the deciding duel between Mustang/GTI and that he had better go all out or forever bear the responsibility of GTI will not hang with EB Pony.
I've had many other cars do a similar dance with me on the interstate and they probably had a real hoot on their Civic, Hyundai, etc forums telling the story about how a 14 GT Mustang couldn't hang with their stock Sonata.
Well that's because I really wasn't in the mood at that moment to risk full blown race mode 150 MPH, tickets, go to jail, or crash to prove my car was faster to someone I don't even know. I will never see them again in my life. I will not feel butt hurt knowing the guy is probably thinking my car is slow and has no nutz.
He may have reached 180kph and decided he didn't want to risk mom taking away his GTI if he got in trouble.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

You do have to consider some things that we assume though when encounters like this happen. (Please don't think I'm saying you didn't totally dust him)
The other driver may not have been going all out. He was definetly moving right along and came up on you hard but then you also floor it and go full race mode putting some distance between you. He may not have got the memo that $hit just got real and he just entered the deciding duel between Mustang/GTI and that he had better go all out or forever bear the responsibility of GTI will not hang with EB Pony.
I've had many other cars do a similar dance with me on the interstate and they probably had a real hoot on their Civic, Hyundai, etc forums telling the story about how a 14 GT Mustang couldn't hang with their stock Sonata.
Well that's because I really wasn't in the mood at that moment to risk full blown race mode 150 MPH, tickets, go to jail, or crash to prove my car was faster to someone I don't even know. I will never see them again in my life. I will not feel butt hurt knowing the guy is probably thinking my car is slow and has no nutz.
He may have reached 180kph and decided he didn't want to risk mom taking away his GTI if he got in trouble.

Glenn's from Germany, they have the Autobahn there, so could be didn't wanna crash or just lost

 

[Glenn G]

If he was tuned he would have likely stayed with or pull you. There are stage 2 (intake, downpipe, tune) gtis that will walk a GT. The current mk7 weighs just about 3k lbs and at stage 2 tuning is seeing at least 310whp. I understand you're not stock, but stock for stock they are very close (talking a tenth or two) and if the car is dsg it will make up for any power differences with incredibly fast shifting.

Definitely not a Mk 7, I am not to keen on Golfs but it was older, like a 4 or 5, and they are definitely not so quick stock, My girlfriends Stock NA supra walks those.
Just because it was modded doesn't mean it was a full blown Stage 2 or 3 but that guy earned my respect for making an older Golf pull like that/


I have a friend with a simple tune and he was really not that far off my gt when I was stock.

You do have to consider some things that we assume though when encounters like this happen. (Please don't think I'm saying you didn't totally dust him)
The other driver may not have been going all out. He was definetly moving right along and came up on you hard but then you also floor it and go full race mode putting some distance between you. He may not have got the memo that $hit just got real and he just entered the deciding duel between Mustang/GTI and that he had better go all out or forever bear the responsibility of GTI will not hang with EB Pony.
I've had many other cars do a similar dance with me on the interstate and they probably had a real hoot on their Civic, Hyundai, etc forums telling the story about how a 14 GT Mustang couldn't hang with their stock Sonata.
Well that's because I really wasn't in the mood at that moment to risk full blown race mode 150 MPH, tickets, go to jail, or crash to prove my car was faster to someone I don't even know. I will never see them again in my life. I will not feel butt hurt knowing the guy is probably thinking my car is slow and has no nutz.
He may have reached 180kph and decided he didn't want to risk mom taking away his GTI if he got in trouble.

Nope Unlimited Part of the A66 between Wiesbaden and Frankfurt so no ticket danger. He absolutely was going after me, I saw the acceleration squat in his headlights as he downshifted and gunned it when he saw me. He stayed on it and like I said managed to close to about 1.5 car lengths while I was accelerating, he didn't let off until he got smoked.

Glenn's from Germany, they have the Autobahn there, so could be didn't wanna crash or just lost

Nah he lost:cheers: All kinds of cars screw with me When I drive my 155hp Lexus IS200. Get right on my ass while I'm doing 180 kph with blinkers on Cut me off, etc.
On my drive to work I noticed BMWs keeping respectful distances behind me Even while i was puttering along at 140 with Cruise control on.

 

[Nazgul]

Not saying you didn't beat him. Not saying your car isn't faster. I'm saying he likely wasn't tuned as a tuned mk7 gti has no problems running down cars that make more power than yours. APR tuned gtis are currently running low to mid 12s and are trapping as high as 113/4 mph. Simple physics puts power to weight in his corner.

If it was a mk5/6 I would agree. My thought immediately went to the newest gti as that is the best competition. If it was a 5/6 you should have no issues beating it until it's turbo swapped.

Either way good run.

 

[stang77]

My guess is that the GTI was not tuned.

 

[mustang_guy]

Not saying you didn't beat him. Not saying your car isn't faster. I'm saying he likely wasn't tuned as a tuned mk7 gti has no problems running down cars that make more power than yours. APR tuned gtis are currently running low to mid 12s and are trapping as high as 113/4 mph. Simple physics puts power to weight in his corner.

If it was a mk5/6 I would agree. My thought immediately went to the newest gti as that is the best competition. If it was a 5/6 you should have no issues beating it until it's turbo swapped.

Either way good run.

net torque means a lot more then power to weight. Incase, anyone doesn't know what It is. From an earlier post of mine.

I like how everyone has ignored the most obvious answer. Net torque. The peak numbers mean nothing, i see some people hung up on in this thread. . Ill give an example that i gave before on a couple other forums.

Car A has 300 WTQ, revs to only 5K, has a 3.55 final gear and a 1.28 3rd gear
Car B has 150 WTQ, revs to 10K, has a 4.88 final gear and a 1.86 3rd gear

With the gearing, both cars shift into 4th at the same mph and Car B has double the torque multiplication... they'll pull even all the way through that gear.

Another example

Car A

160 ft-lbs of torque from 2K to 8K (it just makes it simple that way

Car B

215 ft-lbs of torque from 2K to 6K (again, keeping it simple)

Car A's first gear ratio: 3.7
Car A's final drive ratio: 4.1
Car B's first gear ratio: 3.3
Car B's final drive ratio: 3.4

They both redline first gear at the same speed (Car A being at 8K, Car B being at 6K)

But due to the gear ratio's...
160 * 3.7 * 4.1 = 2427 net torque
215 * 3.3 * 3.4 = 2412 net torque

All the way through first gear, car A pulled harder than car B despite having less torque.

Also, HP wise, both cars are almost exactly the same. The car with less TQ kept up throughout the entire power band though due to gearing.

Don't get caught up in ENGINE torque so much as you do net torque due to gearing. If you don't make a lot of torque, but you maintain that torque to a high rpm and make a comparable amount of HP to another car and have aggressive gears, you shouldn't have to worry about engine torque.

If you want to determine how relevant torque is or area under the curve, first consider the redline as a car with a higher redline can use a more aggressive gear to switch into the next gear at the same mph as another car thus getting more torque multiplication

Also average acceleration doesn't make a difference.. in straight line racing the only thing that matters is DISTANCE TRAVELED. Two cars can have the same average acceleration for X seconds and one car be 15 car lengths ahead. Two cars having the same average acceleration means they're only going the same MPH after a certain amount of time, but that doesn't mean one car isn't WAY ahead of the other. Acceleration is the derivative of velocity and velocity is the derivative of distance. Average acceleration gives you the final distance, but you need the whole velocity curve mapped over time and not just what the velocity is at the end of the graph.

If you want to know how hard a car is pulling @ N MPH...

Take Torque @ current RPM.... we'll call that T
Current Gear ratio: G
Final Gear Ratio: F
Tire diameter in inches: D
Weight: W

((T x G x F) / D) / W

Take that and subtract the power required to overcome the wind resistance at the MPH which is...

If you want to know what all those symbols mean
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_(physics)

Now if you want a general rule for low speeds.. ignore the wind resistance as it doesn't matter much below 80 MPH

Now compare the number you get for both cars and you'll see which one is pulling faster at that speed.

Im a drag racing nut. I hail from yellowbullet forums. Dont mind me.

 

[Tkulhanc134]

I believe the GTI was just an APR stage 1 tuned, cause at 5k RPM, the torque falls right on it's face, no strong redline, I believe that's what happened when the GTI reached 180 kph (112 mph). APR tune is basically surges hard in midrange and calms down near redline. I had a previous gen GTI with APR stage 1.

 

[mustang_guy]

No real top end is pretty standard on stock turbo vw's. It always drops like a rock. Last time I checked out a vw's net torque. mkiv gti, it had pathetic net torque. Havent checked any since. No need, they are never a threat.

 

[Rogues Gambit]

Argh, APR xD

They're good if no one else has a tune out, otherwise there are way better out thrre

 

[Glenn G]

I believe the GTI was just an APR stage 1 tuned, cause at 5k RPM, the torque falls right on it's face, no strong redline, I believe that's what happened when the GTI reached 180 kph (112 mph). APR tune is basically surges hard in midrange and calms down near redline. I had a previous gen GTI with APR stage 1.

That is what happened, at 180kph his acceleration was just done and he was in my draft.

Had a play with that abomination that is the BMW X6, wasn't really a contest :first: I have dash cam Video but we were not on an un-limited Autobahn and we passed a speed limit sign "slightly" above the limit. I'll put up some stills though

 

[Nazgul]

No real top end is pretty standard on stock turbo vw's. It always drops like a rock. Last time I checked out a vw's net torque. mkiv gti, it had pathetic net torque. Havent checked any since. No need, they are never a threat.

Depends on the generation. Mk5/6 sure. The new ones are for sure.

YouTube mk7 gti vs 2015 mustang gt. There are multiple videos of them pulling the mustang. Net torque numbers are great and do speak a lot about a motors ability but being 600-800 lbs light is huge.

 

[mustang_guy]

Depends on the generation. Mk5/6 sure. The new ones are for sure.

YouTube mk7 gti vs 2015 mustang gt. There are multiple videos of them pulling the mustang. Net torque numbers are great and do speak a lot about a motors ability but being 600-800 lbs light is huge.

Im aware of what they are doing. I just haven't bothered to see what the net torque is. In my opinion they arent a threat. They are not fast stock, they are not fast modded. A stock gt is not fast either. No where close. A lot faster then a stock gti and golf r but thats it. Im not impressed with it nor the golf r. I like the r a lot more then the gti. Fwd racing is silly

Also youtube videos tell me nothing. I care about trap speed comparison and net torque. That tells me everything i need to know usually. youtube shows the difference in driver more then anything else, which isnt the indicator of what car is faster.

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