GT350 vs. Z/28

[traxiii]

I wonder what Chevy will say about the Aluminum Body PU they are working on for 17-18 when it debuts. Our Aluminum is more Aluminum than Ford's?

You mean after all the Howie Long commercials about how steel in pickups is great and aluminum sucks!

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[Yoda ROUSH]

The one with the bear kills me LOL

 

[Nasty99z28]

Other thing I do not understand is why GM is insisting on using a 23 year old technology OHV engine, insted of moving on to a newer DOHC platform. The earlier they do it, the better for them, because if they are just going to keep on modernising the OHV, they're going to reach a point where it will not be modernisible enough to stay on par with competition

Nothing about a DOHC setup is "new" so that angle is dead. Yes DOHC has its advantages but so does the ohv. Regardless of which brand you like you can't deny what GM has done with such a "archaic" design. As has Ford with the coyote/fpc. Both of those engines showed the general public/gearhead that DOHC can make power without boost since that was the going punchline against the 4.6 for many years. Although is was for the most part true. But even so the idea of small cubes and high revs is nothing new either. Even Ford guys laughed at import owners when they used that formula (ricer math) for years until they were forced to adopt it when Ford killed the 5.0 in the 90's.

Thr issue is OHV motors are "cheaper", typically more compact and are sometimes lighter.

Sometimes.

A big issue is they've gone to DI with no apparent solution to valve coking

The only true way to avoid that is both port and direct injection.

Never mine the fact that the ls7 is 1.8 liters larger in displacement.............428 cubes verses 315?..........:ford:

You seem like a pretty smart fella which is why Im surprised you always bring that up. It's almost like you think that the coyote/fpc engines are at some huge disadvantage.

I imagine the RWHP limit is exceeded, it's more than likely 20hp stronger than the LS7 and has a 4000RPM power band.

Even with a superior powerband and more power some still want to cry about cubes.(erik427) Since the ls7 is gone for good and Chevy only has a 6.2 it'll make some happy but I'm sure some will still complain without thinking twice about the " fpc" design.

 

[thePill]

Well, displacement does have an advantage. The first advantage being a larger displacement engine is more resistant to inlet restrictions. Forced Induction as well... A 7 liter engine with a 60mm restrictor on a 90mm TB loses less power than a 5 liter with a 60mm on a 90mm TB.

The reason displacement is chosen over efficiency is because it's cheaper to build and repair. It has become the lazy way to make power.

Another issue is the torque advantage. This is a pure advantage displacement brings to the table. Restricted or not, a larger displacement engine is making torque.

 

[Erik427]

Nothing about a DOHC setup is "new" so that angle is dead. Yes DOHC has its advantages but so does the ohv. Regardless of which brand you like you can't deny what GM has done with such a "archaic" design. As has Ford with the coyote/fpc. Both of those engines showed the general public/gearhead that DOHC can make power without boost since that was the going punchline against the 4.6 for many years. Although is was for the most part true. But even so the idea of small cubes and high revs is nothing new either. Even Ford guys laughed at import owners when they used that formula (ricer math) for years until they were forced to adopt it when Ford killed the 5.0 in the 90's.

The only true way to avoid that is both port and direct injection.

You seem like a pretty smart fella which is why Im surprised you always bring that up. It's almost like you think that the coyote/fpc engines are at some huge disadvantage.


Even with a superior powerband and more power some still want to cry about cubes.(erik427) Since the ls7 is gone for good and Chevy only has a 6.2 it'll make some happy but I'm sure some will still complain without thinking twice about the " fpc" design.

As for the ls7 being older? The one that is used in competition uses non production heads and is built from the ground up by the race teams that use it. Just the block and maybe the rods are carried over. Maybe the intake.......

 

[Nasty99z28]

Well, displacement does have an advantage. The first advantage being a larger displacement engine is more resistant to inlet restrictions. Forced Induction as well... A 7 liter engine with a 60mm restrictor on a 90mm TB loses less power than a 5 liter with a 60mm on a 90mm TB.

The reason displacement is chosen over efficiency is because it's cheaper to build and repair. It has become the lazy way to make power.

Another issue is the torque advantage. This is a pure advantage displacement brings to the table. Restricted or not, a larger displacement engine is making torque.

Torque it the biggest factor with the cubes but DOHC isn't naturally that type of engine. But it also allows for much high revs for a much longer time and the torque is some what offset by over gearing.

As for the ls7 being older? The one that is used in competition uses non production heads and is built from the ground up by the race teams that use it. Just the block and maybe the rods are carried over. Maybe the intake.......

Well that's yet another rule thats bullshit. We all know the stock stuff can make great power and once you upgrade the weak valve train in the ls7 it should be fine. Should be stock block/heads/intake but allow any mods to those as long as they start out as a production part. But that just my opinion.

 

[JohnZiraldo]

...
I imagine the RWHP limit is exceeded, it's more than likely 20hp stronger than the LS7 and has a 4000RPM power band.
...

I would guess that the 4000RPM power band will be a plus for the Mustangs over the Z28s at Road America's 14 corners.

 

[Strokerswild]

GM's engineering remains a world leader.

Funniest thing I've read this month. :lol:

 

[Simon]

You mean after all the Howie Long commercials about how steel in pickups is great and aluminum sucks!

[ame]

I wonder what are they going to say in the commercials when they will actually start using aluminum. It's just going to be so funny seeing them basically back out of the idea of the steel frame trucks and admit that steel isn't the greatest thing anymore. With those commercials they set themselves up for failure, they were backed into a corner by themselves. As much as I like Chevy trucks, I mean they're very nice looking and not bad mechanically, but you've just made a commercial not to buy your next product, not the smartest idea. I see already those people that when Chevy is going to advertise their new aluminum frame truck that are just gonna be like " But 3 years ago, didn't you guys say it was much more expensive to fix them?".

 

[Taneras]

I wonder what are they going to say in the commercials when they will actually start using aluminum. It's just going to be so funny seeing them basically back out of the idea of the steel frame trucks and admit that steel isn't the greatest thing anymore. With those commercials they set themselves up for failure, they were backed into a corner by themselves. As much as I like Chevy trucks, I mean they're very nice looking and not bad mechanically, but you've just made a commercial not to buy your next product, not the smartest idea. I see already those people that when Chevy is going to advertise their new aluminum frame truck that are just gonna be like " But 3 years ago, didn't you guys say it was much more expensive to fix them?".

I just.... What? That commercial was so forced and scripted.

Do adults actually buy into this thought hand holding style of selling you products? This reminds me of those 2 AM infomertials trying to sell you worthless trinkets.

 

[EXP Jawa]

Funniest thing I've read this month. :lol:

To be fair - in my experience - GM's engineering team is very capable. They also have one of the better internal design review processes that I've come across within the automakers that I've worked with. If there's one issue that I'd fault them is that they shuffle the deck too often - the last program that I worked on had three different design release engineers over the course of a couple years, so some consistency was lost between the start and end of a product's development. But the people themselves are very good at what they do. The disconnect really is between engineering and product management, from what I see.

 

[traxiii]

To be fair - in my experience - GM's engineering team is very capable. They also have one of the better internal design review processes that I've come across within the automakers that I've worked with. If there's one issue that I'd fault them is that they shuffle the deck too often - the last program that I worked on had three different design release engineers over the course of a couple years, so some consistency was lost between the start and end of a product's development. But the people themselves are very good at what they do. The disconnect really is between engineering and product management, from what I see.

Yeah, like the design review on those faulty ignition switches. :headbonk:

 

[EXP Jawa]

Say what you, but I can tell you their process is more thorough than most, and I've worked with a number of different automotive customers. To an extent, bear in mind, that these processes are the result of working through past failures. And failures have happened to everybody sooner or later - that's just statistics - so you can't hold that sort of thing against the engineering group (or their modern processes) as a whole any more than you could against any other manufacturer. Not seeing that is likely the result a narrow fanboy view. Tire pressure ratings on Firestone tires comes to mind here...

 

[Nasty99z28]

I would guess that the 4000RPM power band will be a plus for the Mustangs over the Z28s at Road America's 14 corners.

Hell a powerband that broad is awesome on any track. No need for all the downshifting/upshifting. I really though a fpc engine would be a peaky engine. Boy was I wrong!!!

 

[Erik427]

Torque it the biggest factor with the cubes but DOHC isn't naturally that type of engine. But it also allows for much high revs for a much longer time and the torque is some what offset by over gearing.


Well that's yet another rule thats bullshit. We all know the stock stuff can make great power and once you upgrade the weak valve train in the ls7 it should be fine. Should be stock block/heads/intake but allow any mods to those as long as they start out as a production part. But that just my opinion.

Agreed

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