More V6 vs. EcoBoost Banter, Please

[TheZman]

You do realize that peak power/peak torque has very, very little to do with how the vehicle drives? The total area under the curve and the shape of the curve is MUCH more important to vehicle performance.

Is there something i wrote in this thread that states i dont realize that? My first comment was the Ecoboost with a just Tune has the Performance advantage and my second was that there where NO performance changes to the 2015 v6 engine over the 2014... so ?????

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[BmacIL]

Is there something i wrote in this thread that states i dont realize that? My first comment was the Ecoboost with a just Tune has the Performance advantage and my second was that there where NO performance changes to the 2015 v6 engine over the 2014... so ?????

Your first statement is accurate. The 2nd is not. Peak HP on the V6 has actually decreased from 305 to 300. Low-end torque is substantially higher than the outgoing 3.7L engine. The upper intake manifold is a new design and the controls system is speed density based vs. MAF. Those two changes are what make the difference. The 2015 3.7L makes the same torque at 2500 rpm that the 2014 made at ~4000 rpm. Much flatter curve that peaks at nearly the same level, but starts off much higher.

 

[TheZman]

Didnt see FORD ever saying they made changes.. 14 v6 was 305hp and 280tq the 2015 is 300hp and 280tq.. if the 2015 has a slightly flatter curve in one area doubt its going to make a HUGE difference. Especially when tunes for the 14 can do that..

 

[BmacIL]

Didnt see FORD ever saying they made changes.. 14 v6 was 305hp and 280tq the 2015 is 300hp and 280tq.. if the 2015 has a slightly flatter curve in one area doubt its going to make a HUGE difference. Especially when tunes for the 14 can do that..

Tunes can't really do that for an NA engine. They will end up mostly shifting the curve up, but the shape won't change much. I can show you pictures of the two manifolds if you'd like. Ford quietly made these changes because they want the EB to sell at higher volumes. They would've offered the premium trim and performance packages on this engine if that wasn't true.

Your references are to peak values yet again, not curves. No one is attacking the EB in this discussion. Please stop attacking the V6 and leave if you have nothing productive to add. Most/all of the rest of the people contributing have driven both the V6 and EB and recognize what each is and isn't.

 

[TheZman]

Tunes can't really do that for an NA engine. They will end up mostly shifting the curve up, but the shape won't change much. I can show you pictures of the two manifolds if you'd like. Ford quietly made these changes because they want the EB to sell at higher volumes. They would've offered the premium trim and performance packages on this engine if that wasn't true.

Your references are to peak values yet again, not curves. No one is attacking the EB in this discussion. Please stop attacking the V6 and leave if you have nothing productive to add. Most/all of the rest of the people contributing have driven both the V6 and EB and recognize what each is and isn't.

I am in NO way attacking the v6's in this forum. The OP wanted opinions.. i even stated the v6 mustang was a good engine.. but seriously why would FORD bother making secret squirrel changes to the v6 and not say anything so the ecoboost could shine.. makes no sense.. they dont even offer Performance packs for it so why tweek the engine now? If that was they case and they we're worried about the 6 out shinning the Ecoboost and they kept something like that hush hush then they would have just dropped the 6 from the line up.. or gave the Ecoboost a better Tune from the factory cause its extremely down tuned from the factory..

 

[Jamo]

....Turbo engines turn into beasts with just a tune. An Naturally asperated v6 engine might get anywhere from 10 to 30ft lbs of torque from a tune depending on the Tuner.. a Turbo i4 will get 100 ft lbs of torque from just a tune on top of the torque advantage it already has. .....

The difference between 300 hp and 305 hp isn't significant, if it's anything at all, IMO.

As to the "tune" that turns the eBoost into the eBeast, what tune are you playing? How much does it cost and where do you get it? Are you referring to down pipes and cat backs and CAIs? What do you have to do?

I know some of you guys know these things. I just don't.

 

[jackrook]

The difference between 300 hp and 305 hp isn't significant, if it's anything at all, IMO. As to the "tune" that turns the eBoost into the eBeast, what tune are you playing? How much does it cost and where do you get it? Are you referring to down pipes and cat backs and CAIs? What do you have to do? I know some of you guys know these things. I just don't.

All jokes aside Id like to turn mine into an ecobeast too!!

slowest member of WCPR

 

[BmacIL]

The difference between 300 hp and 305 hp isn't significant, if it's anything at all, IMO.

As to the "tune" that turns the eBoost into the eBeast, what tune are you playing? How much does it cost and where do you get it? Are you referring to down pipes and cat backs and CAIs? What do you have to do?

I know some of you guys know these things. I just don't.

Several tuners have very good tunes available for $350-500, on average.

Unleashed
Cobb
MAP (soon)
WMS
Livernois
Bama Performance (American Muscle)
Ford Racing (later this year apparently)

They'll net you huge low to mid-range torque gains (+70 to +100 lb-ft) and some HP up top as well. Very good value. With the exception of the FR tune, all will open you up to voided warranty IF it can be proven that the tune caused an issue. That said, many have used tunes from the above companies on other platforms very reliably.

Believe me, those numbers and the exploding aftermarket for the EB made it VERY hard for me to decide what to get. At the end of the day, I was very happy with the performance of the manual trans V6's I drove, liked the noise a heck of a lot more and knew the majority of the aftermarket I cared about (suspension, brakes, chassis stuff) would support the V6 anyway. Plus the real world FE would be pretty similar.

I stand by this: drive both and make the call yourself.

 

[TheZman]

The difference between 300 hp and 305 hp isn't significant, if it's anything at all, IMO.

As to the "tune" that turns the eBoost into the eBeast, what tune are you playing? How much does it cost and where do you get it? Are you referring to down pipes and cat backs and CAIs? What do you have to do?

I know some of you guys know these things. I just don't.

Well in my opinion any car thats around $30k that you can get well into the 12's with either in stock form or with just a tune is pretty impressive.. Pretty sure more then 1 Tunning company already did that.. of course full bolt ons will help even more! Keep in mind this is the early stages of these tunning companies cracking this engine.. give it 5 years. Theres going to be some pretty impressive i4 Turbo Mustangs out there buy then..

 

[Apwrx]

the tuner can be had from cobb,livernois,unleashed plus many more.. Just a tune is all you need no intake or exhaust just a tune will gain nearly 100ft lbs of torque.4-550 price range.

Edit: bmac beat me to it. I'll just echo

 

[jackrook]

I stand by this: drive both and make the call yourself.

That's what I did with the 5.0 and EB. Ultimately, for ME, the price difference wasn't worth it and the potential for 32 mpg highway was attractive because I drive from Palm Springs to LA weekly

slowest member of WCPR

 

[Jamo]

I sure like that V6. But I guess it's all in the turbo.

I suppose I should just go with a WRX instead.

(Just kidding.)

 

[04SloSnake]

I would think hard about what you want out of the car and what your expectations are. I will break down MY thought process for whatever that's worth. Other people will not think like I do.

1. Leaving the car stock. If you are looking for a Mustang you can just get in every day and enjoy it in stock form, both the EB and V6 are viable options. I would pick the EB for 3 reasons: 1. I like boost (nuff said), 2. premium option (cooled seats are amazing), 3. Performance Pack.

2. Lightly modding. Ecoboost. Bolt ons and a tune = 12's.

If you are not looking for the premium option and will be leaving the car stock, I would go V6 just based on the lower price, although I "think" the 051A package puts it pretty close to base EB price (I may be wrong). Both cars are going to return impressive gas mileage and can be run on 87 octane. Don't get sidetracked by all the guys saying otherwise and complaining of EB power loss. In stock, non-premium, non-PP form, there really isn't much of a difference. Personally I ordered the turbo premium w/ PP. Seriously Ford, I know it is called a base model, but why would satellite radio not be available?

 

[TheZman]

I would think hard about what you want out of the car and what your expectations are. I will break down MY thought process for whatever that's worth. Other people will not think like I do.

1. Leaving the car stock. If you are looking for a Mustang you can just get in every day and enjoy it in stock form, both the EB and V6 are viable options. I would pick the EB for 3 reasons: 1. I like boost (nuff said), 2. premium option (cooled seats are amazing), 3. Performance Pack.

2. Lightly modding. Ecoboost. Bolt ons and a tune = 12's.

If you are not looking for the premium option and will be leaving the car stock, I would go V6 just based on the lower price, although I "think" the 051A package puts it pretty close to base EB price (I may be wrong). Both cars are going to return impressive gas mileage and can be run on 87 octane. Don't get sidetracked by all the guys saying otherwise and complaining of EB power loss. In stock, non-premium, non-PP form, there really isn't much of a difference. Personally I ordered the turbo premium w/ PP. Seriously Ford, I know it is called a base model, but why would satellite radio not be available?

Pretty much sums it up!

 

[Jamo]

One thing about the eBoost is that you cannot get 3.55 without getting the PP, whereas you can on the V6.

The thing about getting the PP is that you get summer only wheels and tires (although they are great looking wheels). There's a nice all season Wheel option on on the V6. Unfortunately, the wheel option on the V6 includes power seat. Power seat interferes with my amplifier placement under the driver. And I prefer manual seat. I'd prefer manual windows, but that's another story.

I don't need the Premium because leather is not important or even particularly desirable to me. I like cloth. Too, I want a base radio. I can put in my own sound system without having to worry about the Shanker. I do like the mode switches.

Overall, the cost is very similar. Mostly these are minor nits. I'm very excited by the prospect of any of these arrangements. If it ever happens, after I sell my Buell and Bonneville, I'll be very happy. Heck, I might still afford a GT.

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