Can't believe Ford cheaped out on this

[MACHtobers Very Own]

Even though there is considerable penny pinching across multiple areas at end of the day you have to sell cars with profit margins that make sense for the many many arms of the company. These are BILLION dollar companies with thousands of employees. Not millions not thousands but BILLIONS. So as much as I don't like it sometimes cast wheels probably helps somebody keep a job, a fun car stay around, events happen and a semi reliable car you can take nationwide to get serviced. I try to look at the glass half full sometimes.

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[Vlad Soare]

So as much as I don't like it sometimes cast wheels probably helps somebody keep a job, a fun car stay around, events happen and a semi reliable car you can take nationwide to get serviced. I try to look at the glass half full sometimes.

Except penny pinching is not meant to help somebody keep a job, or to get the car serviced nationwide, but rather to help the higher management get bigger bonuses. And perhaps to recoup part of what they lose on electric vehicles and other commercial flops from their lineup. So no, there's nothing honorable in it.

 

[MAGS1]

Except penny pinching is not meant to help somebody keep a job, or to get the car serviced nationwide, but rather to help the higher management get bigger bonuses. And perhaps to recoup part of what they lose on electric vehicles and other commercial flops from their lineup. So no, there's nothing honorable in it.

What you say is true, however, if a product is not making a profit, people also lose their jobs. So, as long as Mustang remains profitable, those that work on Mustang have jobs. Where are the first cuts when a product starts losing money? The workers, not the high level execs. So, profits do indeed help keep people employed (and give the execs big bonuses and potentially help offset losses elsewhere).

 

[Gen 6 Mach1]

To help keep jobs , or more for the corporate Board of Directors, it keeps the wheel rolling even tho it maybe heavy and that's what it's all about , so we don't go back to riding horses . Just a little fun , but true .

 

[MACHtobers Very Own]

What you say is true, however, if a product is not making a profit, people also lose their jobs. So, as long as Mustang remains profitable, those that work on Mustang have jobs. Where are the first cuts when a product starts losing money? The workers, not the high level execs. So, profits do indeed help keep people employed (and give the execs big bonuses and potentially help offset losses elsewhere).

Thats what I am also trying to say. Its a shell game of moving money/profit/losses etc from place to place to off set wins/losses in various parts of the company. I get it, it looks weird to see penny pinching but also bonuses going out but it's all a game of math to keep the ship moving. Don't always agree with it but when it comes to companies of that size its literally somebody's job x30 to figure out how to make it all work and it is MUCH MUCH Larger/complicated then you think.

 

[MAGS1]

Cast wheels are heavy but they are inexpensive (at least relative to forged aluminum, carbon fiber, etc). 95% of the people that buy these cars don’t care anyway.

I do think the more track focused trims should come with lighter wheels (or least have an option for it). Can be flow formed or forged, I think the take rate would be fairly high among the enthusiast crowd (and probably higher than CF wheel take rates given aluminum wheels are less expensive to produce).

 

[MAGS1]

Thats what I am also trying to say. Its a shell game of moving money/profit/losses etc from place to place to off set wins/losses in various parts of the company. I get it, it looks weird to see penny pinching but also bonuses going out but it's all a game of math to keep the ship moving. Don't always agree with it but when it comes to companies of that size its literally somebody's job x30 to figure out how to make it all work and it is MUCH MUCH Larger/complicated then you think.

100%. Most car programs are given a budget for the entire program run. I remember from the Faster Horse documentary, they talked about a car program costing $1 billion (the documentary was around S550 & the 50th anniversary, so we’re talking well over 10 years ago). That’s what is allocated for design, research, development, getting suppliers up and running, getting the plant switched over, payroll, etc. When you start introducing changes, increasing costs of parts, more expensive features, etc. they have to look at it in totality. One example used in the documentary was a $1 increase for one small part. Multiply that by the 500,000 cars they estimate building over the span of the program (or at least the amount of cars they’re amortizing their costs over) and you’re at $500k just for one small part. Then start thinking about the thousands of parts it takes to build a car. It can snowball really fast. That’s why they have an army of accountants, someone has to step in and say no, the math no longer works.

It still blows my mind how GM was able to shift the C8 to a completely new platform from the prior generations and sell their base model for as low as $60K when it first released (I think the 1LT trim is now $70K which still is not bad at all). I’d like to see their math on that car program and how they make a decent profit.

 

[MACHtobers Very Own]

100%. Most car programs are given a budget for the entire program run. I remember from the Faster Horse documentary, they talked about a car program costing $1 billion (the documentary was around S550 & the 50th anniversary, so we’re talking well over 10 years ago). That’s what is allocated for design, research, development, getting suppliers up and running, getting the plant switched over, payroll, etc. When you start introducing changes, increasing costs of parts, more expensive features, etc. they have to look at it in totality. One example used in the documentary was a $1 increase for one small part. Multiply that by the 500,000 cars they estimate building over the span of the program (or at least the amount of cars they’re amortizing their costs over) and you’re at $500k just for one small part. Then start thinking about the thousands of parts it takes to build a car. It can snowball really fast. That’s why they have an army of accountants, someone has to step in and say no, the math no longer works.

It still blows my mind how GM was able to shift the C8 to a completely new platform from the prior generations and sell their base model for as low as $60K when it first released (I think the 1LT trim is now $70K which still is not bad at all). I’d like to see their math on that car program and how they make a decent profit.

I have read in other sectors/business that sometimes you gamble/start with a lower entry point/lower profit to get the product moving/build hype then reallocate that small profit to other places in prep for the price increase that will come eventually anyways and not even including that penny pinching on the chevy trax may be helping with keeping the corvette affordable/alive as well. Big business is FASCINATING and wild when you do the deep dive down the rabbit hole of what info is partially available.

 

[John S]

Do your homework and know what you're buying if you're an enthusiast/customer that cares about the specifics of your vehicle. Ford is in business to make profits on whatever widgets they sell and, as an example, they were profiting $25K on each F250 Super Duty truck sold to their customer, the Dealership, in 2020. The new 10R140 10-speed "super duty" automatic transmission was a big part of their marketing campaign but a few years later, what Ford didn't advertise was if you ordered a base model F250, a 10R80 transmission, re-validated (no significant changes) and renamed 10R100, was "good enough" and substituted for the real super duty 10R140. The cost savings to Ford was huge and most end users buying their base model/base engine F250s from the dealerships wouldn't know the difference (or care?)

 

[Vlad Soare]

One example used in the documentary was a $1 increase for one small part. Multiply that by the 500,000 cars they estimate building over the span of the program (or at least the amount of cars they’re amortizing their costs over) and you’re at $500k just for one small part.

If the car of my dreams costs $30,000 and I can afford that, then I'll surely be willing to pay $30,001 if that's what it takes to have a light bulb in the glovebox. Just don't insult me by removing it covertly, hoping I'm too stupid to notice.

 

[Strokerswild]

If the car of my dreams costs $30,000 and I can afford that, then I'll surely be willing to pay $30,001 if that's what it takes to have a light bulb in the glovebox. Just don't insult me by removing it covertly.

Much like transmission dipsticks. I'd pay $200 for one as an option.....

 

[MAGS1]

If the car of my dreams costs $30,000 and I can afford that, then I'll surely be willing to pay $30,001 if that's what it takes to have a light bulb in the glovebox. Just don't insult me by removing it covertly, hoping I'm too stupid to notice.

You can say that about just about any part of the car. There has to be a cutoff, otherwise your costs and price of the car balloons to the point it makes no sense.

 

[luc]

Cast wheels are heavy but they are inexpensive (at least relative to forged aluminum, carbon fiber, etc). 95% of the people that buy these cars don’t care anyway.

I do think the more track focused trims should come with lighter wheels (or least have an option for it). Can be flow formed or forged, I think the take rate would be fairly high among the enthusiast crowd (and probably higher than CF wheel take rates given aluminum wheels are less expensive to produce).

Most, if not all, factory wheels promote understeering and that is the last thing you want on a performance car, especially if you track it
So even if they had forged wheels on performance models, we will still have to get aftermarket wheels to have the correct balance and handling if we push the car hard

 

[Vlad Soare]

You can say that about just about any part of the car. There has to be a cutoff, otherwise your costs and price of the car balloons to the point it makes no sense.

Sure. But there's a fine line between reasonable cutoff and shameless penny pinching.
I'm not talking about DH wheels in particular, which I agree might fall in the reasonable cutoff category. I mean in general. It's disgusting when a basic feature, which even the lousiest Korean econobox has, is removed from a $40K+ car just to pinch fifty cents. Add those fifty cents to the price of the car and call it a day. Make the cutoff where the customer doesn't see it or feel it.

 

[HKusp]

I hate that we are calling $40k an econobox. I remember when a new Corvette on the showroom floor was $10k out the door. I'm old....

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