What’s better Boss 302 or a GT350?

[svttim]

Not trying to attack anybody myself either. I don’t expect them to say anything different because that’s their personal experience. The point I was trying to make, is while let’s say one of them had that “higher” mileage experience, there’s let’s say ten cars that had an engine replacement. So while yes they had that experience, many others do not. Which generally, the people who have those “higher” mileage experiences, along with sharing their experiences, say the problem it self is fake or overblown by others.

That’s where I begin to feel the truth gets stretched a bit for no real reason, because I don’t think people are lying about it having issues being rather common. I mean, there’s a reason Ford wanted them off the books so bad for ESP’s and why you cannot even get a “used car” ESP on them anymore with inspection. I feel like everyday somewhere I see a thread or post about it happening, which is why I feel this way. Obviously the issues are more with the early cars, but they weren’t fully solved even in the 19/20’s. Again, I think the 350 is an awesome car, and agree with you fully on that, it’s absolutely bespoke. I’m also glad to hear it has treated you well, that is awesome.

If the ESP’s were readily available the 350 would have certainly been on my radar more, but I couldn’t do it given the concerns about it. Tracking adds a whole other layer, and when I speak of reliability of any of these cars, I really am speaking of stock vehicles that are driven in an enthusiast fashion, not necessarily tracked. Again, I love hearing when guys have gotten lots of miles out of them, I think it’s great. I just feel it’s unfair to the majority of others who haven’t had great luck, to act like they’re overblowing it, that’s the only point I was trying to make.

Damn statistics. Lets assume that there are ten engine replacements for every high mileage cars. There is a small percentage of GT350s that have been driven with high milage. I was told by someone within Ford, the failure rates for the 15-18 where twice what a Coyote was, Four to two. The 19/20 cars were the same as the coyote. This does not take into account the issues that were caused by the supplier in the 19 run. And I cannot reveal the source, They want to be employed.


I also remember Boss motors going kaboom early in the run.

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[dpAtlanta]

Acting baffled about reliability issues like it isn’t pretty damn common is sort of misleading.

Well dammit.... I guess the Ice Age is actually coming back after all.

 

[Pudmullet]

Not trying to attack anybody myself either. I don’t expect them to say anything different because that’s their personal experience. The point I was trying to make, is while let’s say one of them had that “higher” mileage experience, there’s let’s say ten cars that had an engine replacement. So while yes they had that experience, many others do not. Which generally, the people who have those “higher” mileage experiences, along with sharing their experiences, say the problem it self is fake or overblown by others.

That’s where I begin to feel the truth gets stretched a bit for no real reason, because I don’t think people are lying about it having issues being rather common. I mean, there’s a reason Ford wanted them off the books so bad for ESP’s and why you cannot even get a “used car” ESP on them anymore with inspection. I feel like everyday somewhere I see a thread or post about it happening, which is why I feel this way. Obviously the issues are more with the early cars, but they weren’t fully solved even in the 19/20’s. Again, I think the 350 is an awesome car, and agree with you fully on that, it’s absolutely bespoke. I’m also glad to hear it has treated you well, that is awesome.

If the ESP’s were readily available the 350 would have certainly been on my radar more, but I couldn’t do it given the concerns about it. Tracking adds a whole other layer, and when I speak of reliability of any of these cars, I really am speaking of stock vehicles that are driven in an enthusiast fashion, not necessarily tracked. Again, I love hearing when guys have gotten lots of miles out of them, I think it’s great. I just feel it’s unfair to the majority of others who haven’t had great luck, to act like they’re overblowing it, that’s the only point I was trying to make.

I bought my 18 R almost two weeks ago which included a seven year, 84k mile extended service plan. That insures I'll never have an issue. If I didn't get it, it would have blown up backing it off the delivery truck.

 

[Mach 307]

Damn I hit a nerve, lol! Yeah the “10 to 1” thing was just exaggeration on my part. My point isn’t that the majority fail, I’m just saying the Voodoo clearly has a higher failure rate and reputation than other Mustang engines, especially early cars and depending on use, and a solid amount of guys have had that experience. Plenty of them go high mileage, or don’t blow when they hardly get used, I’m not denying that. I just don’t think the reputation came from nowhere. You guys really are reading between the lines. I’ve praised the car in every post, and I think even in another thread, said the 350 gets my vote over the Boss by a LANDSLIDE.

 

[sumfoo1]

Mine started ticking at 68k miles and had noticeable power loss by 78k miles and is getting a new heart now at 80k. No oil consumption ever. Oil Changes at half the recomended interval with ford oil.

Talk to anyone who actually builds engines for the track and you'll hear one simple statement. The secondary balance issues, which is also why there is tuned ballast on the k member will eventually shake the bottom end apart.

Yall never wondered why the race car never had a flat crank?

 

[PP0001]

Damn statistics. Lets assume that there are ten engine replacements for every high mileage cars. There is a small percentage of GT350s that have been driven with high milage. I was told by someone within Ford, the failure rates for the 15-18 where twice what a Coyote was, Four to two. The 19/20 cars were the same as the coyote. This does not take into account the issues that were caused by the supplier in the 19 run. And I cannot reveal the source, They want to be employed.


I also remember Boss motors going kaboom early in the run.

Regarding early built Boss 302 engine failures, are you referring to the 1st Gen or 2nd Gen Boss 302 engines?

 

[Gilberjj]

After selling my e92 m3, I went on a wide search for a new sports car. After all my research, the Boss 302 was at the top of my list. The gt350 was there as well, but the price difference seemed like a lot to justify.
I went and test drive a stock, low mileage Boss 302 that was in very good condition. I liked lots about the car, but left generally underwhelmed. The biggest let down was the transmission. It had lockout at redline. What a strange flaw for a car aimed at track driving… that essentially knocked it out for me.
Then I went and test drove a gt350 and it was immediately over. I ended up with a gt350r base, which you could equate to a Boss 302 Laguna Seca.
The 350 (and especially the 350r) are far more modern than the Boss 302. The driving dynamics, engagement, powertrain, looks… etc. it’s all a significant improvement over the Boss 302.
The Boss 302 felt like a solid Mustang. The gt350r feels like an all-time great sports car from any manufacturer.
The gt350r is peak Mustang. I wouldn’t trade my car for a Dark Horse or Mach 1 or gt500… etc.
I’m praying my devotion is rewarded with voodoo reliability. However, I feel that the reliability concerns are overblown. Don’t use it as a daily, monitor the oil and let it warm up before driving it seriously.

 

[Rev Happy]

After selling my e92 m3, I went on a wide search for a new sports car. After all my research, the Boss 302 was at the top of my list. The gt350 was there as well, but the price difference seemed like a lot to justify.
I went and test drive a stock, low mileage Boss 302 that was in very good condition. I liked lots about the car, but left generally underwhelmed. The biggest let down was the transmission. It had lockout at redline. What a strange flaw for a car aimed at track driving… that essentially knocked it out for me.
Then I went and test drove a gt350 and it was immediately over. I ended up with a gt350r base, which you could equate to a Boss 302 Laguna Seca.
The 350 (and especially the 350r) are far more modern than the Boss 302. The driving dynamics, engagement, powertrain, looks… etc. it’s all a significant improvement over the Boss 302.
The Boss 302 felt like a solid Mustang. The gt350r feels like an all-time great sports car from any manufacturer.
The gt350r is peak Mustang. I wouldn’t trade my car for a Dark Horse or Mach 1 or gt500… etc.
I’m praying my devotion is rewarded with voodoo reliability. However, I feel that the reliability concerns are overblown. Don’t use it as a daily, monitor the oil and let it warm up before driving it seriously.

In the BMW world, does the E92 M3 have a peanut gallery as well regarding durability? I've always liked those M3s.

 

[svttim]

Regarding early built Boss 302 engine failures, are you referring to the 1st Gen or 2nd Gen Boss 302 engines?

2012 as I remember
1969 was a bigger issue

 

[PP0001]

2012 as I remember
1969 was a bigger issue

Back in the day the 1969 and 1970 Boss 302 engines suffered from a severe lack of low-end torque and even more so than the 1967-1970 Camaro Z28 therefore that is saying something.

If some of you think that the 5.2L FPC engine lacks some low-end torque you would be shocked as to how bad the 1969/1970 Boss 302 cars were out of the hole (0-60 in ~6.8 seconds) unless some of us went all out and ordered a Detroit Locker differential that only came with 4.30 gears.

Having said that the 1970 Boss 302 engine did develop a little more low-end torque compared to the 1969 Boss 302 engine as it had smaller intake values and a better Holley carb and of course the shaker hood scoop was optional for the final model year.

With respect to some of the early 2012 Boss 302 engines blowing up, based on my experience/ownership of numerous 2012 Boss 302/LS cars which included some of the earliest Pilot Production and regular production engines, never had or heard of that issue being prevalent after ownership, discussions with the FRAP talks with some of the Project 747 process team or any fellow 2012 Boss 302 owners/enthusiasts.

Regularly shifted all of my very early Pilot Production 2012 Boss cars at the 7,500 RPM redline and in 3rd gear would reach ~95 MPH with 4th gear I would reach ~125 MPH.

When redlining some GT350/R examples at the 8,250 RPM those speeds increased up to ~107 MPH in 3rd gear and ~140 MPH in 4th gear and was attained at Sebring in October 2015 while in some MP and PP cars.

 

[FitmentIndustries]

I’m contemplating selling my 2012 Boss 302 that I’ve owned since new. I’d like to replace that with a GT 350. I’ve read many different takes but I’m torn if it’s worth the money? Power? Seems like the Boss is better on street. I’m old, more of a car show type than a track guy. I like spirited driving but don’t need to be in competition at 71. Any owners here that have had both cars?

From what we've seen and all, If you roll with the Shelby GT350, it's a better performing ride. However, we've seen others shifting towards the Boss 302 for it's low-end torque, and raw power.

We'd select the Boss 302 for it's value and street friendly torque.

 

[svttim]

Back in the day the 1969 and 1970 Boss 302 engines suffered from a severe lack of low-end torque and even more so than the 1967-1970 Camaro Z28 therefore that is saying something.

If some of you think that the 5.2L FPC engine lacks some low-end torque you would be shocked as to how bad the 1969/1970 Boss 302 cars were out of the hole (0-60 in ~6.8 seconds) unless some of us went all out and ordered a Detroit Locker differential that only came with 4.30 gears.

Having said that the 1970 Boss 302 engine did develop a little more low-end torque compared to the 1969 Boss 302 engine as it had smaller intake values and a better Holley carb and of course the shaker hood scoop was optional for the final model year.

With respect to some of the early 2012 Boss 302 engines blowing up, based on my experience/ownership of numerous 2012 Boss 302/LS cars which included some of the earliest Pilot Production and regular production engines, never had or heard of that issue being prevalent after ownership, discussions with the FRAP talks with some of the Project 747 process team or any fellow 2012 Boss 302 owners/enthusiasts.

Regularly shifted all of my very early Pilot Production 2012 Boss cars at the 7,500 RPM redline and in 3rd gear would reach ~95 MPH with 4th gear I would reach ~125 MPH.

When redlining some GT350/R examples at the 8,250 RPM those speeds increased up to ~107 MPH in 3rd gear and ~140 MPH in 4th gear and was attained at Sebring in October 2015 while in some MP and PP cars.

The 69 Boss 302 had pistons that would break in the bore. The piston skirts were too short. I remember the 2011 Boss race car very distinctly. Of course, I know the owner very well and the driver who passed away

 

[Gilberjj]

In the BMW world, does the E92 M3 have a peanut gallery as well regarding durability? I've always liked those M3s.

The e90 and e92 m3 are great. The reliability issues are even more overblown than the voodoo.
The rod bearings are a maintenance item. The stock ones should be swapped out after 60-80k miles. It’s a $2-3k bill. If you can get your head around that, the rest of the car is generally very reliable. The throttle position sensors have also been known to go out, but that’s relatively easy to replace and doesn’t cause anything catastrophic if they fail.
The e9x loves boost. I had a supercharged one and it seemed like a well balanced car. However, my perfect e9x would have recaro seats, brembo brakes and upgraded wheels and suspension… the gt350r packages that all in a newer and better car for less money.

 

[Rated R]

The 69 Boss 302 had pistons that would break in the bore.

Which is why it's fairly rare to find a numbers matching 69-70. Instead of rebuilding, Ford just replaced the engines with the D1ZE service block. Not unlike what they do/did w/ the voodoo engine.

 

[fpa1974]

In the BMW world, does the E92 M3 have a peanut gallery as well regarding durability? I've always liked those M3s.

I am sporting an S54 in one of my cars and Vodoo in the 350. I guess I love 'unreliable' engines (the S54 powered car is 24 years old is still on the original motor and bearings , I am pretty sure the Voodoo will do the same).

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