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robvas

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I'm guessing there's no room to put turbos on the Coyote in the current engine bay?
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Unas2k5

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Can you tell him to relay to marketing that people REALLY hate the names they are putting out?

They have been nothing but screwups since they tried to name the Mach-E the Mach1.

I told him yesterday that there are so many iconic nameplates that could have been pulled from. I guess they didn’t want to continue to pay Shelby for just the name which is stupid in my opinion.
I was looking for him earlier today to tell him that nobody likes this name!
 

Joe Gonsalves

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The fact the Mach-e was outselling the current coupe for a bit, and that Dark Horses are already discounted by thousands and sitting on lots tells me that EV's are not the problem here. The S650 is the money sink right now. There is 0 American sports car competition other than the Vette and its sales are still at historic lows.
The Mach E has been out for 10 years now. It had time to build a following. The F150 lightning didn't sell well at all. Ford spend Billions on a dedicated assembly plant for that truck and also battery plant. That's the money they lost. The S650 doesn't sell because it's over priced and has polarizing styling. Ford targeted the wrong buyer with that car. The Gen Z crowd that don't have the same desire for a sports car as present Mustang owners do. Didn't help that they walked away from their halo cars Mach 1, GT350, GT500, and fed us the DH. Yes Ford missed a golden opportunity, with essential no domestic competition, had they targeted the right buyer.
 

Mach 307

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Yea whatever dude. The name Dark Horse is just extremely edgy, I can’t find it cool, sorry. Looks like we really are done with the GT350, GT500, Mach 1, Boss 302 nameplates. The car it self is cool tho.
 

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9secondko

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No its not, it's the whole GT500 drivetrain, and as there has been no previous DHSC so technically there is nothing to improve over in Ford eyes, just the bar to not be worse than the last GT500.

Which makes it more odd to me they still don't want to produce a car faster than the GT350 that's not supercharged. Why be oddly protective of the GT350 but not the GT500.
lol. No. Even with a DCT. It’s basically a supercharged dark horse. It might be comparable to the OLD GR500. But it’s nowhere near ehst a NEW GT500 would be.

and your last statrment actually mske
A my point. Since the resurrection of the gt500, each generation has made generational leaps in performance. Especially the 2020 model. This will be basically a warmed over version of that.
so not worse, likely better, but not an incredible leap like the GT500/Cobra would be.

and Thsys for the best they went with the DHSC name, bevause people might accept a decent factory supercharged dark horse but if the called it Cobra or gr500, people would be upset thst they didn’t do enough and rightly so.

I’ve mentioned msny times before thst the s650 generation is Fords “buying time” generation to navigate the EV madness thst had dodge tripping over itself. It’sFord not investing but pretending they are. And do be it. It helps the mustang stay somewhat relevant.

My hope is now that we have logic, freedom, and cooler heads prevailing, that Ford is developing a truly new mustang platform that will not just compete with, but whoop on what the competition has and will bring.

but this… honestly the Shelby and rtr models are looking better every day. If it were a true gt500 successor, no one would even consider those in comparison.
 

9secondko

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The Mach E has been out for 10 years now. It had time to build a following. The F150 lightning didn't sell well at all. Ford spend Billions on a dedicated assembly plant for that truck and also battery plant. That's the money they lost. The S650 doesn't sell because it's over priced and has polarizing styling. Ford targeted the wrong buyer with that car. The Gen Z crowd that don't have the same desire for a sports car as present Mustang owners do. Didn't help that they walked away from their halo cars Mach 1, GT350, GT500, and fed us the DH. Yes Ford missed a golden opportunity, with essential no domestic competition, had they targeted the right buyer.
the Mach e has only been available for a little over 6 years. That’s also enough time to build s following. Unfortunately it’s just another ev suv. And it’s competitive. It’s nice. But it’s not a mustang s as nd ford likely hurt its market cachet by calling it that.
 

Schwerin

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The Mach E has been out for 10 years now. It had time to build a following. The F150 lightning didn't sell well at all. Ford spend Billions on a dedicated assembly plant for that truck and also battery plant. That's the money they lost. The S650 doesn't sell because it's over priced and has polarizing styling. Ford targeted the wrong buyer with that car. The Gen Z crowd that don't have the same desire for a sports car as present Mustang owners do. Didn't help that they walked away from their halo cars Mach 1, GT350, GT500, and fed us the DH. Yes Ford missed a golden opportunity, with essential no domestic competition, had they targeted the right buyer.
Ev's outsell Manual like 3 or 4 to one. Guess we should just stop all R&D on manual sand save millions.
 

9secondko

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One more question: why does the front end look like a truck? It’s super blocky like a brick wall in the front. Watching the “designer” give a presentation now, telling everyone “what I did was…” and none of what he says translates into ehst we see in front of us.

can’t believe this was the approved body design. Looks like they swiped the duckbill spoiler from Shelby and put an f350 front end on the car.

The exhaust tips are interesting. But I don’t think they’ll age well.

Been waiting forever for a true gt500 successor. Hopefully they can save this thing with astronomical power numbers.
 

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Thomas

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MSRP....Base ~$85, CFTP, $100. This excludes most "adds" they will inevitably get.

That's in line with the GT500 plus inflation.

Now, any guesses on weight? I'm thinking 4400.
Darkhorse with all options was nearly 95k including CF wheels. I'd agree your base number is probably close, maybe 90k. I think the track pack however, will push it to 120-125k since it includes the wing, CF wheels and CCBs and probably other bits.

I'm curious about the weight as well. I think 4400 without CTFP is pretty darn close.
 

Schwerin

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I WILL say something nice about this car though, I really like the front end more than the normal Dark Horse. I will at least give it that much.
 

Rinzler

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The Mach E has been out for 10 years now. It had time to build a following. The F150 lightning didn't sell well at all. Ford spend Billions on a dedicated assembly plant for that truck and also battery plant. That's the money they lost. The S650 doesn't sell because it's over priced and has polarizing styling. Ford targeted the wrong buyer with that car. The Gen Z crowd that don't have the same desire for a sports car as present Mustang owners do. Didn't help that they walked away from their halo cars Mach 1, GT350, GT500, and fed us the DH. Yes Ford missed a golden opportunity, with essential no domestic competition, had they targeted the right buyer.
Oof. Lots of, dare I say, ignorant and presumptive opinions there?

1. The F150 Lightning DID sell well, but got stale as the EV industry moves faster than the ICE industry. For a company like Ford, where product development takes 4-5 years, the F150 Lightning got stale very quickly as it was passed up by more compelling offers for the same or less money. A 2022 used $50,000 Launch Edition Rivian R1T is more truck than the 2025 F-150 lightning for $60,000+. It's really simple math.

2. Ford in general has got a dealership problem. Ford's dealerships are known for being both sleazy and expensive. Moreover, it was pretty well known that they did not really care to move the Lightnings in favor of models like the Raptors.

3. The Mach-E went on sale in Dec 2020 as a 21 model and began outselling the ICE Mustang in less than 3 years.

4. I will agree that the S650 is too expensive, too heavy, too tech-focused to be the "poor man's" fast car that it used to be. That coupled with the fact that you can get an equally quick EV from Hyundai or a mild M car from BMW for the same money, and you've got a recipe for low sales.

5. The Gen Z crowd loves sports cars, they just can't afford them. The cheapest EcoBoost starts at $32,500 which is around a $560 - $600/m payment with GOOD credit, and no wonder they're not selling. You can tell by the number of older model year ecoboosts you see on the road. There's absolutely a desire for them for less money.

6. I agree that they should've used a halo moniker like Cobra, BOSS, or something of that nature. It would've immediately provided nostalgia for the older buyers who can afford the car.

All in all, I agree that Ford dropped the ball. I just don't think it's for the reasons you think.
 

Strokerswild

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Let's pretend the S550 GT500 never existed. In that respect, the DHSC would be the greatest Mustang ever (except for styling) and the fanfare would be unreal.

Instead, let's just take the S550 GT500, add a few things, make it ugly, and pretend it hasn't been done before. Presto!

Talk about phoning it in.
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