Car is down - No fuel pressure.

[KKell83]

Hi all,

So today out of the blue my car lost pedal and stalled... zero fuel pressure.

I have a Fore Innovations L2 dual pump system - 470 and 430lph on all the time running E85. I do not run a hobbs switch since I've heard too many horror stories. Anywho, the system has been flawless since October of last year. Shoot, I even took the car on a 1400 mile out of state trip two month ago and just shy of 250 miles a few days ago. Then just an two hours ago my CC was set at 60 listening to music and here we are...

While on the side of the rode I was able to look at my install, but let's face it it's much... I have a main power wire feeding into the FC3 unit, a good ground which hasn't moved, and the only 7.5V (or below) from the main harness soldered - although I didn't undo my electrical tape and heatsrink to check.

Anywho, I can lay my hand on the fuel controller and with the help from my mother she clicked the button on and I feel and hear 'a click.' So in my mind its turning on, aka getting power. With the car still in this mode, I go to the fuel hat and no sound (obviously), so I take a handle of a screwdriver and hit it and hear an odd noise.... wasn't your typical pump whine noise but almost like a grinding sound, but during this time I get curious and look at my PFR and it's around 15psi. Turn off the car, turn it back on and nada...

I just got the car back home roughly an hour ago so I haven't used a multimeter to make sure all's good.

Has anyone ran into this? I want to say its electrical since I cannot believe both pumps would fail at the same time. I always monitor my WOT pulls and it looks as they always have. Only variable is I did get E85 couple hours earlier in the morning but what does a clogged fuel filter act like?

Any ideas of suggestions would help.

Thanks,
Kenneth K

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[NGOT8R]

I’m guessing it’s going to be bad pumps from excessive heat with both running full speed all the time . Did you drive with low fuel level (below 1/2) on your long trips?

They go bad without warning too. I lost a factory pump with no warning 15 minutes after filling up on E85 at just 7K miles on the odometer.

 

[Frank's 2018]

I had the same thing happen to me. The excess heat from the pumps running fuel speed burns up the brushes in the pumps. I had a set fail fairly quick on me. The set I'm on now are almost two years old and I'm going to replace them. I run the TI 285 pumps.

 

[RCstang]

Just a few ideas:

1:Clogged Fuel Filter: E85 can pick up gunk from tanks or old lines, especially after a fresh fill. A clogged filter restricts flow, causing low/no pressure and stalling. Check/replace your 88mm or 128mm microglass/stainless filter (Fore’s E85 spec).


2: Electrical Issue: You’re getting 7.5V or less at the main harness and hear a click from the FC3, so it’s powered, but no pump whine is bad news. Low voltage could starve the pumps (470/430 lph need solid power). Use a multimeter to check voltage at the pump leads (should be ~12-14V). Inspect solder joints and the Delphi connector for corrosion or loose connections. 12v system?


3: Pump Failure: Grinding noise suggests one or both pumps may be failing (unlikely both at once, though). E85 is tough on pumps, and debris from the recent fill could’ve damaged them. Tapping briefly got 15 psi, so one pump might be struggling. Test each pump individually by bypassing the FC3.


4: Fuel Contamination: Bad E85 from your recent fill could’ve introduced water or debris, clogging the filter or damaging pumps. Drain the tank and inspect the fuel for clarity.

 

[KKell83]

I’m guessing it’s going to be bad pumps from excessive heat with both running full speed all the time . Did you drive with low fuel level (below 1/2) on your long trips?

They go bad without warning too. I lost a factory pump with no warning 15 minutes after filling up on E85 at just 7K miles on the odometer.

Maybe once or twice it did go below 1/2 tank but nothing really too far underneath that unless I was purposely switching fuels

 

[KKell83]

I had the same thing happen to me. The excess heat from the pumps running fuel speed burns up the brushes in the pumps. I had a set fail fairly quick on me. The set I'm on now are almost two years old and I'm going to replace them. I run the TI 285 pumps.

Wow, no kidding... I guess it's just how it goes.

 

[KKell83]

Just a few ideas:

1:Clogged Fuel Filter: E85 can pick up gunk from tanks or old lines, especially after a fresh fill. A clogged filter restricts flow, causing low/no pressure and stalling. Check/replace your 88mm or 128mm microglass/stainless filter (Fore’s E85 spec).


2: Electrical Issue: You’re getting 7.5V or less at the main harness and hear a click from the FC3, so it’s powered, but no pump whine is bad news. Low voltage could starve the pumps (470/430 lph need solid power). Use a multimeter to check voltage at the pump leads (should be ~12-14V). Inspect solder joints and the Delphi connector for corrosion or loose connections. 12v system?


3: Pump Failure: Grinding noise suggests one or both pumps may be failing (unlikely both at once, though). E85 is tough on pumps, and debris from the recent fill could’ve damaged them. Tapping briefly got 15 psi, so one pump might be struggling. Test each pump individually by bypassing the FC3.


4: Fuel Contamination: Bad E85 from your recent fill could’ve introduced water or debris, clogging the filter or damaging pumps. Drain the tank and inspect the fuel for clarity.

Hey you know my car. Lol, but thanks for the post.

 

[KKell83]

Ok, found the issue. My low wattage power wire (purple/green wire from the FPDM harness) is only reading 0.3xx volts! cleary not enough to even flip on the fuel controller - yet it did at first... I did pull the pumps and tested each one on the bench, since they didn't respond to direct 12v, but with the slightest tap on the housing they spun; maybe had them run for 1 or 2 seconds since they weren't in fuel. Each one works though. Threw the pumps back into the tank and supplied my own power lead to them and each one fired while holding 42-45psi for maybe 30 second until i removed the power.

From there I tested the FC3 and it's working correctly; at least when it has greater than 6.5v it activates. I did this manually and it worked every time, while showcasing the proper voltage of 12v+ to each power line to the pumps. Now to the lack of voltage from that one lead wire... I cannot find a reason yet...

 

[SnowFox]

Nice catch. Like you I first figure electrical based on what you said.

Two failing at the exact same time though possible, doesn't seem "more possible" than an electrical issue.

In my experience a fuel filter clogging shows some subtle issues prior to a total block. Unless they hoovered up a few party balloons.

 

[KKell83]

Ok all. It turned out to be multiple issues. Seems like it popped a fuel pump relay resulting in also weak pumps. Not sure how but it did... oh well.

I currently see 12+ volts from the purple/green wire. And to "double check" I can remove the relay and it goes back to 0.3xx volts as I once noticed at the beginning; furthermore, if I also remove the fuel pump fuse I also see 0.3xx volts.

But with the system back to seeing its proper voltage both pumps struggle to start. In fact, like earlier, they would pulsate die then with a little "tap on the cover" come back to life for a short while. I can see on the PFR that pressure is erratic with the needle bouncing like crazy, and it kept dropping.

So I'll buy new pumps, and filters for the car. Appreciate the help everyone.

 

[J17GT]

Which pumps are you running?

 

[DougS550]

Maybe once or twice it did go below 1/2 tank but nothing really too far underneath that unless I was purposely switching fuels

That sucks. Not good quality R&D as far as I am concerned (IMHO). BUT; Their are quite a few Cheerleaders for them. I went with a system which HAS A Bucket assembly which could run close to empty without having issues (No Matter how many people commenting, they see no issue with a NO Bucket Assembly overheating during low fuel levels like 1/2 tank, I had second thoughts. I am not saying some people don't have issues with them. Good Luck

 

[KKell83]

Which pumps are you running?

I had Walbro's - a 274 and 285; decided on two 274's this time around.

 

[KKell83]

That sucks. Not good quality R&D as far as I am concerned (IMHO). BUT; Their are quite a few Cheerleaders for them. I went with a system which HAS A Bucket assembly which could run close to empty without having issues (No Matter how many people commenting, they see no issue with a NO Bucket Assembly overheating during low fuel levels like 1/2 tank, I had second thoughts. I am not saying some people don't have issues with them. Good Luck

I'll give this system only one other chance.

 

[DougS550]

I'll give this system only one other chance.

I hope you find out what exactly caused your fuel pressure issue. Luckily it's an easy system to troubleshoot. Good luck

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