What's In DFB's Cabinet?

[DFB5.0]

Thanks @DFB5.0, my aural needs have been met for tonight at least.

It was a conscious decision to buy a 'facelift' W204 because while it was more refined than the 'pre facelift' cars it was still the first generation and they didn't hold back. I usually buy cars for what they represent and what they remind me of, and in this case the design brief was very rude for ze Germans i.e. take the smallest feasible and appropriate chassis and stuff the biggest engine into it that you can fit even if you need to design it from scratch.

Back at you with the exhaust noise, not sure if you saw this when it was released but it's classic TG:

That was one of their best episodes!

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[lo-fi]

Sold my very low mileage w204 C63 AMG just a few months ago. Great engine, great exhaust, pretty good chassis, suspension was fairly sorted straight from the factory but my god did that transmission absolutely suck when compared to BMW's DCT from that era.

 

[GT 550]

Sold my very low mileage w204 C63 AMG just a few months ago. Great engine, great exhaust, pretty good chassis, suspension was fairly sorted straight from the factory but my god did that transmission absolutely suck when compared to BMW's DCT from that era.

I know where you're coming from, who doesn't like a good DCT? One of the criticisms - if one could call it that - I have of the W204 is that the trans isn't as refined as I'd probably like it to be. Regarding the DCT vs MCT I think 400 vs 650nm has a bit to do with why the Benz box is like it is. Interestingly it appears BMW has gone away from DCT boxes.

 

[DFB5.0]

I know where you're coming from, who doesn't like a good DCT? One of the criticisms - if one could call it that - I have of the W204 is that the trans isn't as refined as I'd probably like it to be. Regarding the DCT vs MCT I think 400 vs 650nm has a bit to do with why the Benz box is like it is. Interestingly it appears BMW has gone away from DCT boxes.

See, I would rather a well sorted traditional torque converter automatic over a DCT. In fact, a both BMW and Audi performance cars have moved away from DCT's and gone back to torque converters (M3, M5, M8 / RS4, RS6, RS7 ect).

If the vehicle was a dedicated sports car like Porche Cayman, then that would be a step backwards. But in most cases, the high-performance BMW's and Audi's are based on more humble origins and generally used as daily drivers. In such case, the driver only occasionally sees the benefit of the DCT, but then lives with the compromise the rest of the time.

The ZF 8-speed that a number of companies use, including BMW and Audi, is nearly the perfect combination of drivability, smoothness and shift speed. With how they are tuned now, I doubt most would miss the added shift speed a DCT would offer.

What I hate about DCT's is the lack of natural "creep" when releasing the brake pedal. They need to be throttled to move away, which can then make for jerky low speed characteristics. Naturally, some are better at this than others.

 

[skinnyb]

See, I would rather a well sorted traditional torque converter automatic over a DCT. In fact, a both BMW and Audi performance cars have moved away from DCT's and gone back to torque converters (M3, M5, M8 / RS4, RS6, RS7 ect).

If the vehicle was a dedicated sports car like Porche Cayman, then that would be a step backwards. But in most cases, the high-performance BMW's and Audi's are based on more humble origins and generally used as daily drivers. In such case, the driver only occasionally sees the benefit of the DCT, but then lives with the compromise the rest of the time.

The ZF 8-speed that a number of companies use, including BMW and Audi, is nearly the perfect combination of drivability, smoothness and shift speed. With how they are tuned now, I doubt most would miss the added shift speed a DCT would offer.

What I hate about DCT's is the lack of natural "creep" when releasing the brake pedal. They need to be throttled to move away, which can then make for jerky low speed characteristics. Naturally, some are better at this than others.

I have to agree, I have owned several VW's with their first attempt at a dual clutch (DSG) and the ones I owned were the earlier wet clutch versions so they were pretty refined but definitely had their quirks especially my 08 R32. My 10 speed in my Mustang is really fast and impressive to me in shift quality.. It has its quirks too, but overall I love it. I drove mine HARD for 4 days last week and it never gave me any trouble and was a blast to drive in manual mode in the twisties..

 

[skinnyb]

So I found a bottle of the Meguiars Hyper dressing at my local auto parts store today (Oreillys) and it was $25 for a 32 oz bottle. Looks just like the bottle pictured above. It says ready to use, but how far does it need to be diluted for trim duty? 1:1, 2:1? I still have a boat load of Perl so I will use that up first, but good to know its readily available locally...

 

[DFB5.0]

I have to agree, I have owned several VW's with their first attempt at a dual clutch (DSG) and the ones I owned were the earlier wet clutch versions so they were pretty refined but definitely had their quirks especially my 08 R32. My 10 speed in my Mustang is really fast and impressive to me in shift quality.. It has its quirks too, but overall I love it. I drove mine HARD for 4 days last week and it never gave me any trouble and was a blast to drive in manual mode in the twisties..

I have a 10-speed S650 on order, which I'm hoping was the right choice. I've driven a lot of 10-speed diesel Ranger's, which I find pretty slow with manual inputs, both up and down. But I have only driven one Mustang GT with it, which was mostly "enthusiastic" driving and not in more sedate throttle inputs, so I'm keen to see how it performs over a wide range of conditions.

But most of all, I'm wondering how this Ford 10-speed will compare to the three ZF gearboxes I already have in the fleet, 6-speed Falcon's and a 8-speed Jaguar.

The ZF 6-speed was basically THE automatic in its day. Shift speed, shift logic, smoothness and NVH all hallmarks. It absolutely transformed the Falcon's it was used in................to the point where I'm surprised Ford went for this gearbox considering it was made in Germany and generally a premium priced component. The later 8-speed only lifted the bar.

 

[DFB5.0]

So I found a bottle of the Meguiars Hyper dressing at my local auto parts store today (Oreillys) and it was $25 for a 32 oz bottle. Looks just like the bottle pictured above. It says ready to use, but how far does it need to be diluted for trim duty? 1:1, 2:1? I still have a boat load of Perl so I will use that up first, but good to know its readily available locally...

In my case, I dilute the concentrate out to 4:1 for a "natural finish". Forgive me, I'm not brilliant with numbers, but in theory you would dilute that 1:1 RTU 50/50 with demineralized water to arrive at 4:1?

For reference, this is non-diluted and diluted Hyper Dressing on tires........................................

Before -

Non-diluted (In this form, it will actually sling) -

Diluted 4:1 -

 

[WD Pro]

I have just (literally, 5 mins ago - I’ve just nipped in for the loo) dusted some plastic outdoor garden stuff in hyper dressing (7:1)

WD

 

[WD Pro]

Wash (left wet), spray (left wet), 2.5 hours later :

Same process works really well on under arch plastics

I have a couple of pre mix bottles :

WD

 

[skinnyb]

I have a 10-speed S650 on order, which I'm hoping was the right choice. I've driven a lot of 10-speed diesel Ranger's, which I find pretty slow with manual inputs, both up and down. But I have only driven one Mustang GT with it, which was mostly "enthusiastic" driving and not in more sedate throttle inputs, so I'm keen to see how it performs over a wide range of conditions.

But most of all, I'm wondering how this Ford 10-speed will compare to the three ZF gearboxes I already have in the fleet, 6-speed Falcon's and a 8-speed Jaguar.

The ZF 6-speed was basically THE automatic in its day. Shift speed, shift logic, smoothness and NVH all hallmarks. It absolutely transformed the Falcon's it was used in................to the point where I'm surprised Ford went for this gearbox considering it was made in Germany and generally a premium priced component. The later 8-speed only lifted the bar.

I will admit, the 10 speed programming from the factory (here in the US at least) leaves a bit to be desired. It will try to go to 10th gear ASAP, like at 30 MPH for me, which is ridiculous and doesn't like to downshift unless you absolutely hammer the throttle. That is the EPA Fuel Economy programming for ya. Sport mode was the only mode I could tolerate in stock form. It is good, but at times a little cranky, especially when cold. But warmed up it performs really well, especially the 3-4-5-6 shifts in manual mode when driving in spirited manner. I drove mine several days last week and shifted manually up and down A LOT and it did flawless. BUT, once I got an aftermarket tune, it made mine even better, I can drive in D and it shifts much better..

 

[skinnyb]

In my case, I dilute the concentrate out to 4:1 for a "natural finish". Forgive me, I'm not brilliant with numbers, but in theory you would dilute that 1:1 RTU 50/50 with demineralized water to arrive at 4:1?

For reference, this is non-diluted and diluted Hyper Dressing on tires........................................

Before -

Non-diluted (In this form, it will actually sling) -

Diluted 4:1 -

I will give it a go once I run out of Perl. I already got waay too many products at the moment. LOL.. I use Perl 1:1 on tires, and 4:1 on everything else. I just like the idea of being able to get locally.

 

[kilobravo]

I have just (literally, 5 mins ago - I’ve just nipped in for the loo) dusted some plastic outdoor garden stuff in hyper dressing (7:1)

<laughing> I do the same thing all the time, WD! MOF, I just used VRP on the mat under the dog's water bowl, a dish drainer catch pan, and..

Wash (left wet), spray (left wet), 2.5 hours later :

I have a Rubbermaid case nearly identical to the one you posted and I did that a couple days before. <grin> Mine's for pool chemicals and I park the pool robot on top and cover it with a piece of synthetic rubber canvas. It is SO dusty here that surfaces will be covered in it in just a single twenty-four hour period. Makes me crazy. <smile>

 

[lo-fi]

See, I would rather a well sorted traditional torque converter automatic over a DCT. In fact, a both BMW and Audi performance cars have moved away from DCT's and gone back to torque converters (M3, M5, M8 / RS4, RS6, RS7 ect).

If the vehicle was a dedicated sports car like Porche Cayman, then that would be a step backwards. But in most cases, the high-performance BMW's and Audi's are based on more humble origins and generally used as daily drivers. In such case, the driver only occasionally sees the benefit of the DCT, but then lives with the compromise the rest of the time.

The ZF 8-speed that a number of companies use, including BMW and Audi, is nearly the perfect combination of drivability, smoothness and shift speed. With how they are tuned now, I doubt most would miss the added shift speed a DCT would offer.

What I hate about DCT's is the lack of natural "creep" when releasing the brake pedal. They need to be throttled to move away, which can then make for jerky low speed characteristics. Naturally, some are better at this than others.

Trust me when I say that if you drove the w204 C63 AMG and a BMW DCT from that era (one after the other) there is a clear, a super clear, winner. Its a shame to, because the w204 C63 AMG is one of the greatest NA V8 sports sedans ever minus that one huge flaw. I loved that car but the transmission is what led me to sell. It was not what that car deserved.

 

[GT 550]

See, I would rather a well sorted traditional torque converter automatic over a DCT. In fact, a both BMW and Audi performance cars have moved away from DCT's and gone back to torque converters (M3, M5, M8 / RS4, RS6, RS7 ect).

If the vehicle was a dedicated sports car like Porche Cayman, then that would be a step backwards. But in most cases, the high-performance BMW's and Audi's are based on more humble origins and generally used as daily drivers. In such case, the driver only occasionally sees the benefit of the DCT, but then lives with the compromise the rest of the time.

I should clarify that my experience with DCT is limited to fast road cars on a racetrack, and shifting at full noise or under braking was a rare pleasure. But for a DD I really doubt it'd be enjoyable. IIRC the 8 speed BMW box is being embraced for trans swaps which says a lot. I haven't had the pleasure of driving a 10 speed Mustang but I've driven the 10 Speed Ranger and the flexibility that trans provides is impressive.

@kilobravo would really like to know your thoughts on Sarah's DCT.

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