Ford Inspector for Warranty Repair-Update:Warranty Denied Claim Due to Off Road Racing

[BlackandBlue]

Being an ESP gives them the right to do pretty much whatever they want. There is also probably a binding arbitration clause in the contract.

Most even have the option to refund the service plan amount back to you if the repair amount is over the cost of the plan. It is bad business and since Ford is selling a product it doesn’t happen much.

My personal route would be to see if Ford will give you anything. Free parts or cover some cost somewhere. Anything is better than nothing.

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[mikedahammer]

I do find this fascinating in a sense. The way I always viewed the ESP is that it is an extension of the Ford Warranty. Whatever Ford would cover this would cover. It is branded with Ford's logo and basically everything I see online from Flood Ford, Zeigler, etc says ESP warranty and even the contract from them says warranty start date.

 

[MikeR397]

I had a 40 minute conversation with the lead inspector at Ford Lincoln ESP. He said that I do not have a warranty. I have an extended service contract. That a warranty may cover track use but the extended service contract does not. He informed me that clause 7d states that they can deny a claim for neglect and abuse.

He further lamented that if your car visits a track you will automatically be denied any and all claims due to abuse and neglect. This is regardless of what happened at the track and how the car was used. That basically if the car is put into that environment you have zero rights as to future claims. He also stated that any cosmetic items that shows the car may have been used in that environment you will be denied.

I also learned that supercar 3r's under this ESP are racing slicks. I also learned that a race seat constitutes you having a racecar, a rollbar also constitutes a racecar, a sticker or marking on a window means you were racing and have a racecar. I further learned that they do not need any proof that it was used beyond its specifications and they will deny all claims under neglect or abuse if you drive it out of the city limits. If you read all of that then you should also know that racecar spelled backwards is racecar.

Time to lawyer up. A track designed car is not abused by taking it to a DE event any more than having a 8250 redline and using it on the road is. You didn’t go off roading in a field. Why did ford put brake ducting and 6 piston brakes and a big wing for aero on this car?

find a good lawyer willing to blow this up big and make his fee contingent.

 

[ZXMustang]

Chevy stands behind the 1LE cars if they fail in factory form on a track. Pity Ford wont do the same.

 

[MikeR397]

I had a 40 minute conversation with the lead inspector at Ford Lincoln ESP. He said that I do not have a warranty. I have an extended service contract. That a warranty may cover track use but the extended service contract does not. He informed me that clause 7d states that they can deny a claim for neglect and abuse.

He's playing you for a fool. Look at the top right page 1 of your ESP, it literally says "Warranty Start Date" on it. A warranty is generally included in the purchase price, with a service contract is extra. In reality the language is intermingled. Regardless, your service contract covers the transmission so the terminology is irrelevant. I agree a service contract may not cover track use while a warranty may or may not, but if all he can point to is vague language of "neglect and abuse" than that is boilerplate language that does not apply to the instance of tracking a car designed and marketed to go on track. THEY knew this when they wanted to offer the warranty for this type of vehicle (if they don't want to cover track cars then they don't have to offer coverage, same with carbon fiber wheels, but if they offer coverage and you provide consideration for it, then it's binding and they can't say you can't use your vehicle as it was designed for use). One step further, just b/c a contact has a boilerplate out for them doesn't mean it's valid. Case in point is my tire claim I mentioned above, but what if a contract said "if you reach speeds of 71mph then that is illegal, breaking the law, and abuse and all coverage will be voided." There is ZERO chance that will hold up in arbitration or court.

Do you have Premium Care ESP? If you do, it's an "exclusionary contact" in that if something isn't specified as excluded, then it is automatically included in coverage. See my attachments how my Flood Ford warranty describes my Premium Care coverage and what are the only excluded items:

Have you even verified where in your contract it says "abuse" and does it define it? Read my attachment 7 e) ..."unreasonable use or continued use with obvious failure (driving over curbs, overloading, using vehicle as a stationary power source"....losses due to negligence, racing or Failures caused by alterations or modifications to the vehicle" All of this is very reasonable, and gives examples of "unreasonable use" as driving over curbs. Taking a Shelby track car to a track is not "unreasonable use."

I do not see the term "abuse" in my contract, nor do I see anywhere that mentions tracking a track car at a Driver Education (DE) event would void coverage. My contract lists "racing." A DE is NOT racing, it's specifically not timed and all driver meetings I've been to have reminded everyone it's not racing but education.

Can you post a copy of your warranty with the terms they are saying you violated? Note that my Exclusions section 7D does not mention anything about neglect or abuse. Where are they getting that from?

 

[passwords]

Time to lawyer up. A track designed car is not abused by taking it to a DE event any more than having a 8250 redline and using it on the road is. You didn’t go off roading in a field. Why did ford put brake ducting and 6 piston brakes and a big wing for aero on this car?

find a good lawyer willing to blow this up big and make his fee contingent.

THIS, 100%.

The company has issued a contract, it needs to stand by the contract terms. Both parties assumed risk in the bilateral agreement. Ford Lincoln ESP cannot subsequently alter the terms of the agreement based on an outcome it doesn’t like. The lead inspector is just making shit up as he goes along, trying to prevent you from exercising your contractual rights (fraud?). Engage an attorney, one eager to make this a MUCH larger issue beyond your immediate claim.

 

[MikeR397]

Being an ESP gives them the right to do pretty much whatever they want. There is also probably a binding arbitration clause in the contract.

Most even have the option to refund the service plan amount back to you if the repair amount is over the cost of the plan. It is bad business and since Ford is selling a product it doesn’t happen much.

My personal route would be to see if Ford will give you anything. Free parts or cover some cost somewhere. Anything is better than nothing.

That's not true. They cannot just do what they want, they are bound by the contract just as much as you are. They wrote the contract, and you agreed to it as written, but it's still a contract that must be followed unless disputed in court (for all sorts of various reasons, contracts of adhesion, boilerplate, falsity and misleading language, fraud, ect), but once again don't expect to win on those grounds arguing with a service rep.

They (The ESP) cannot refund the service plan amount back to you and cancel it if you don't agree to it, regardless of how much they paid out. If Ford puts 10 faulty engines in under coverage, they still can't cancel it unless you agree to it. I literally had this issue pop up with my carbon fiber wheel claim. After I sued them and they paid out at settlement, they said "as a courtesy we want to refund 100% of your purchase price of the warranty; I would have kept the payout and got a full refund, but no future coverage. It was my call at that point, they can't unilaterally void the contract, and I declined it and had full coverage for my full 5 year term under the contact (which did cover a couple tire issues, but fortunately no other wheel issues occurred).

Sadly, this contract isn't between you and Ford. That said, a good lawyer will make a show of Ford's logo's and endorsements and sales of this contract at the time of your purchase of the car and say ford is jointly liable. That's a long process and not the best route here unless you want to try to reform this whole process of selling ESP.

 

[matthewr87]

Check out the services offered by the Virginia attorney general's office

 

[RPDBlueMoon]

It's funny how a manufacturer makes a muscle sports car but the moment you use it for what it's designed for, warranty denied. They can't stand behind their work but advertise heavy about performance.

Get a lawyer or read up and learn how to file the lawsuit yourself but you need to sue

Sadly its common for Ford and other OEMs. Its really dumb. The only manufacturers that dont play BS games like that is Mazda (the Miata) and GM (Chevy) from what Ive seen and heard. I know Toyota is getting put on blast for the warranty denails from engine failures from oil starvation with the GR86.

I don't agree with the comments saying that even the car was used for racing whether it was HPDE or time trials that its an easy denial. If the car is being marketed as a track car it should be warrantied like one. Other OEMs do it, Mazda encourages it lol. Its deceptive and just bad business.

Getting a lawyer sucks because you have to pour more money to resolve what should have been a non-issue

 

[RagmopInKona]

Seems many are new to this racing thing, even parts made for only racing the warranty on them end once used on a track other than manufacting defects.
Ford would have had to prove the problem/issue was caused by hard track use . The o/p handed them that proof on a silver platter . Track decal, balona skin bald tires, a roll cage/bar and a race seat and any other items he left out and a complaint that normally would only be found on a track. A WOT run in 5th gear well past 6000 rpm.
The warranty inspector was , thank you very much as he took hold of that silver platter.

 

[Tomster]

Seems many are new to this racing thing, even parts made for only racing the warranty on them end once used on a track other than manufacting defects.
Ford would have had to prove the problem/issue was caused by hard track use . The o/p handed them that proof on a silver platter . Track decal, balona skin bald tires, a roll cage/bar and a race seat and any other items he left out and a complaint that normally would only be found on a track. A WOT run in 5th gear well past 6000 rpm.
The warranty inspector was , thank you very much as he took hold of that silver platter.

Again, another misinformed post by you. I have had personal conversations with one of the guys who had part in writing the warranty for Ford. As long as the car is used as intended (which is on a track under non racing or non timed events) it is covered under the Ford warranty. Ie) an HPDE event.

There was a thread I posted a long time ago when this was a concern. I was assured by Jim Owens that as long as the car was not abused, it was not modified, and used as intended, then Ford would cover the warranty.

The real question is if the ESP is a continuation of the warranty intended for the vehicle. Since it is a track vehicle, I think it should be.

Applying some common sense, you would think that if they sold you an extended warranty for a track car that was intended for just that, the warranty should cover the same intent and use as if it was under the factory warranty.

I know we have some warranty experts here on the forum AND YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THEM.

I guess you have some issue with reading and comprehension......

Yes, and no. I liked reading and learning, but didn't like having to look like a freak doing it.
I could read normal speed only if I turn a book upside down and by looking at it through a mirror. If I read a book normally, It is a slow go and I lose my place I'm reading very easily.
Doctors when in my 50's told me it is a form of dyslexia.
Still love reading, I do wish computers could show text in the way discribed above .

 

[Tomster]

He's playing you for a fool. Look at the top right page 1 of your ESP, it literally says "Warranty Start Date" on it. A warranty is generally included in the purchase price, with a service contract is extra. In reality the language is intermingled. Regardless, your service contract covers the transmission so the terminology is irrelevant. I agree a service contract may not cover track use while a warranty may or may not, but if all he can point to is vague language of "neglect and abuse" than that is boilerplate language that does not apply to the instance of tracking a car designed and marketed to go on track. THEY knew this when they wanted to offer the warranty for this type of vehicle (if they don't want to cover track cars then they don't have to offer coverage, same with carbon fiber wheels, but if they offer coverage and you provide consideration for it, then it's binding and they can't say you can't use your vehicle as it was designed for use). One step further, just b/c a contact has a boilerplate out for them doesn't mean it's valid. Case in point is my tire claim I mentioned above, but what if a contract said "if you reach speeds of 71mph then that is illegal, breaking the law, and abuse and all coverage will be voided." There is ZERO chance that will hold up in arbitration or court.

Do you have Premium Care ESP? If you do, it's an "exclusionary contact" in that if something isn't specified as excluded, then it is automatically included in coverage. See my attachments how my Flood Ford warranty describes my Premium Care coverage and what are the only excluded items:

Have you even verified where in your contract it says "abuse" and does it define it? Read my attachment 7 e) ..."unreasonable use or continued use with obvious failure (driving over curbs, overloading, using vehicle as a stationary power source"....losses due to negligence, racing or Failures caused by alterations or modifications to the vehicle" All of this is very reasonable, and gives examples of "unreasonable use" as driving over curbs. Taking a Shelby track car to a track is not "unreasonable use."

I do not see the term "abuse" in my contract, nor do I see anywhere that mentions tracking a track car at a Driver Education (DE) event would void coverage. My contract lists "racing." A DE is NOT racing, it's specifically not timed and all driver meetings I've been to have reminded everyone it's not racing but education.

Can you post a copy of your warranty with the terms they are saying you violated? Note that my Exclusions section 7D does not mention anything about neglect or abuse. Where are they getting that from?

Now this guy knows what he is talking about.

The only thing I would do is try to settle this myself before having an attorney reach out to Ford. Once that happens, the door slams shut and you will be stuck with the legal process. Lawyers are not cheap. Going to trial is a hell of a lot more than a transmission. Again, once a lawyer engages, they will not work with you and the best you will probably see is a settlement offer that probably ly won't come close to covering your expenses.

 

[MikeR397]

Now this guy knows what he is talking about.

The only thing I would do is try to settle this myself before having an attorney reach out to Ford. Once that happens, the door slams shut and you will be stuck with the legal process. Lawyers are not cheap. Going to trial is a hell of a lot more than a transmission. Again, once a lawyer engages, they will not work with you and the best you will probably see is a settlement offer that probably ly won't come close to covering your expenses.

Entirely true. I would do everything possible to fix the situation prior to hiring an attorney, because after that they will not talk to you directly. Make sure to get everything you can in writing — either directly from them by mail or to your email, or if they refuse, ask your service advisor to print out the internal denial correspondence to them which they will have in their communication system. I had them (esp) dead to rights on my raptor spring failure claim they denied based on this internal correspondence:
“They are stating that the spring is a shock which is not covered under your warranty…as a shock absorber is an excluded wear item”. I had a snapped spring and $1500 of consequential damages, not a worn out shock but that’s how they tried to play it.

My personal prior cases I mentioned are unique in that I had access to a prepaid legal program that represented me free of additional cost to my annual premium, so hourly cost was not a concern. This is beyond the scope of this forum. However, for anyone looking for an attorney, I think it’s vitally important to be able to convey to an attorney the egregious, and class wide nature, of this fraudulent breach of contract behavior so that the attorney can see the merit in representing the case on a contingency basis only (ie no out of pocket risk). A 35% recovery to an attorney upon a win at trial is perfectly fine, particularly if they can recover more than the repair cost itself (which should be the case, else 100% of insurance or warranty claims would be denied in bad faith if the worst case legal outcome was just paying what was owed in the first place). Unless you have $$$ and a desire to rectify a mass spread wrong, agreeing to an hourly rate (unless somehow recoverable in arbitration or court) is going to be a losing financial proposition. I suspect it might be some work for find representation willing to take the case on contingency only, but easier if you present a bulletproof case: (1) here’s my contract that says this (2) they are claiming xxx (3) this is why they are clearly wrong and in bad faith (marking for gt350 as a track car, owners manual making suggestions for such use, esp admitting it might be covered under ford warranty, ect).

The big problem here is we clearly see their business strategy, and they have zero reason to change if it only the 1 in 40 denials they make actually pushes back. They guys that don’t participate on forums or get decent advice or seek legal advice are screwed over so the esp provided has a financial incentive to deny claims even when they know they are wrong because they can get away with it more often than not. What we need is a vigilante who will not settle, go to trial and get a big punitive damage award and all attorney costs covered and send a real message and actually set a precedent for everyone else.

 

[Tomster]

This is the thread I was talking about. There is a similar thread in this section somewhere. I think somewhere around page 14 or 15 I got some information. I never got anything more in writing.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/no-2020-gt500-warranty-for-track-use.150446/

 

[passwords]

Seems many are new to this racing thing

I’m going to bet this will be the funniest thing I read all day. Thank you for giving me something to laugh about.

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