S650 vs Camaro SS 1LE

[1SLwLS1]

The sad part was.. none of them really pulled away from a F-150 with some dude chewing on grass & wearing a cowboy hat, and the 'superior' Mustang barely pulled on a 455 horse Camaro.
Just. My. Opinion.

Really a disappointing advert for the FP700, especially the roll race

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[Hack]

I saw that this video was in my feed on YouTube, but I didn't watch it. Immediately when I saw the title I could tell the story they were setting up.

We all know the PP1 GT is an extremely soft cruiser model. It is not set up for handling and it never has been since 2015. The tires are not for handling, the springs and shocks, sways, etc. It's not set up for handling. You can spend some money and swap out those parts. It's essentially the same chassis as the GT350 and it doesn't cost that much to change those parts. Above and beyond that, the Camaro had a performance alignment but the Ford did not.

So, why compare it to the Camaro 1LE unless that is the story you want to tell? Plenty of people never go to the track. Which one is more comfortable? They said the Mustang is comfortable, but they didn't say anything negative about the 1LE ride. They harped so much on track handling in a vehicle that wasn't set up for the track, but they skipped over a lot of details on the Camaro and on road driving.

The whole thing where they look at a 20 inch square section of the Mustang and say it looks the same as the Camaro is also a jerk thing to do. Yes if you look at a small enough area they look the same. But it's a dumb comparison. You never see just a tiny little area of a car. It just comes across as another insult - and one that is undeserved in my opinion.

The pickup thing and including it in that way was definitely another shot at Ford. Yes a big, heavy vehicle will be slow - even with 700 HP. Everyone knows that. Compare it to a Chevy pickup with a similar sized engine (5.3) rather than pony cars.

It's kind of like Ford didn't give them something that they wanted and now they are trying to punish Ford. It didn't seem like good automotive journalism to me.

Even the drag race thing is a little annoying to me. The Camaro and Mustang were essentially the same as far as the experience the driver will feel. A couple car lengths difference just isn't much.

Bottom line for me is the Camaro isn't an option because it has cylinder deactivation and direct injection only. So I don't trust the engine to be reliable for any length of time.

Other than that, I think the two cars are similar. You just would want to set them up for what you want to do. Unless your goal is more to bad mouth one of them - then you should set it up for one thing and review it based on something completely different.

 

[Kachøw]

Camaro is the better track car and the Mustang wins in pretty much every other metric – pretty much the same story as it has been for years. More news at 11.

Also I enjoy watching TH but I feel like they have the same problem that C&D does (albeit to a lesser extent) where they are pretty out of touch with what the average joe looks for and will want because they spend a lot of time either on the track or in exotics/luxury cars. For that reason, I tend to trust Savagegeese's reviews a lot more since they take street driving more into account when reviewing cars.

 

[MidwayJ]

Since the Camaro was a 1LE they should have at least tested a GT equipped with magneride.

 

[MAGS1]

I saw that this video was in my feed on YouTube, but I didn't watch it. Immediately when I saw the title I could tell the story they were setting up.

We all know the PP1 GT is an extremely soft cruiser model. It is not set up for handling and it never has been since 2015. The tires are not for handling, the springs and shocks, sways, etc. It's not set up for handling. You can spend some money and swap out those parts. It's essentially the same chassis as the GT350 and it doesn't cost that much to change those parts. Above and beyond that, the Camaro had a performance alignment but the Ford did not.

So, why compare it to the Camaro 1LE unless that is the story you want to tell? Plenty of people never go to the track. Which one is more comfortable? They said the Mustang is comfortable, but they didn't say anything negative about the 1LE ride. They harped so much on track handling in a vehicle that wasn't set up for the track, but they skipped over a lot of details on the Camaro and on road driving.

The whole thing where they look at a 20 inch square section of the Mustang and say it looks the same as the Camaro is also a jerk thing to do. Yes if you look at a small enough area they look the same. But it's a dumb comparison. You never see just a tiny little area of a car. It just comes across as another insult - and one that is undeserved in my opinion.

The pickup thing and including it in that way was definitely another shot at Ford. Yes a big, heavy vehicle will be slow - even with 700 HP. Everyone knows that. Compare it to a Chevy pickup with a similar sized engine (5.3) rather than pony cars.

It's kind of like Ford didn't give them something that they wanted and now they are trying to punish Ford. It didn't seem like good automotive journalism to me.

Even the drag race thing is a little annoying to me. The Camaro and Mustang were essentially the same as far as the experience the driver will feel. A couple car lengths difference just isn't much.

Bottom line for me is the Camaro isn't an option because it has cylinder deactivation and direct injection only. So I don't trust the engine to be reliable for any length of time.

Other than that, I think the two cars are similar. You just would want to set them up for what you want to do. Unless your goal is more to bad mouth one of them - then you should set it up for one thing and review it based on something completely different.

I thought the truck thing was pretty funny and felt it was more a pitch for Weathertech, which sponsored the video. Did they have to race it? No, they didn’t but it was fun.

I do think they took a few cheap shots at Ford, especially the whole “pickup to Porsche“ line. I think they’re a bit salty for not being able to take the Mach 1 out on the track when they had one. Also felt like a pitch to GM to not kill the Camaro, but that’s set in stone already.

They do throw some bouquets to the PP2 and the Extra Throttle House channel they drive a 350R and have nothing but praise for it (as they have also had for the base 350 and the GT500 and the Ford GT), so I don’t think they’re Ford haters per se. Just came across poorly in this video

 

[Hack]

Since the Camaro was a 1LE they should have at least tested a GT equipped with magneride.

Or if you're going to test a regular Mustang GT, just test a regular Camaro against it.

 

[JetGray_Mach1]

I saw that this video was in my feed on YouTube, but I didn't watch it. Immediately when I saw the title I could tell the story they were setting up.

We all know the PP1 GT is an extremely soft cruiser model. It is not set up for handling and it never has been since 2015. The tires are not for handling, the springs and shocks, sways, etc. It's not set up for handling. You can spend some money and swap out those parts. It's essentially the same chassis as the GT350 and it doesn't cost that much to change those parts. Above and beyond that, the Camaro had a performance alignment but the Ford did not.

So, why compare it to the Camaro 1LE unless that is the story you want to tell? Plenty of people never go to the track. Which one is more comfortable? They said the Mustang is comfortable, but they didn't say anything negative about the 1LE ride. They harped so much on track handling in a vehicle that wasn't set up for the track, but they skipped over a lot of details on the Camaro and on road driving.

The whole thing where they look at a 20 inch square section of the Mustang and say it looks the same as the Camaro is also a jerk thing to do. Yes if you look at a small enough area they look the same. But it's a dumb comparison. You never see just a tiny little area of a car. It just comes across as another insult - and one that is undeserved in my opinion.

The pickup thing and including it in that way was definitely another shot at Ford. Yes a big, heavy vehicle will be slow - even with 700 HP. Everyone knows that. Compare it to a Chevy pickup with a similar sized engine (5.3) rather than pony cars.

It's kind of like Ford didn't give them something that they wanted and now they are trying to punish Ford. It didn't seem like good automotive journalism to me.

Even the drag race thing is a little annoying to me. The Camaro and Mustang were essentially the same as far as the experience the driver will feel. A couple car lengths difference just isn't much.

Bottom line for me is the Camaro isn't an option because it has cylinder deactivation and direct injection only. So I don't trust the engine to be reliable for any length of time.

Other than that, I think the two cars are similar. You just would want to set them up for what you want to do. Unless your goal is more to bad mouth one of them - then you should set it up for one thing and review it based on something completely different.

Yep I agree pretty nice review BUT they should have compared it to the Dark Horse or GT with magnaride at least. And I still do not believe they look alike at all. Either way I am glad the Camaro was pounded in a straight line. LS < Coyote

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I thought the truck thing was pretty funny and felt it was more a pitch for Weathertech, which sponsored the video. Did they have to race it? No, they didn’t but it was fun.

I do think they took a few cheap shots at Ford, especially the whole “pickup to Porsche“ line. I think they’re a bit salty for not being able to take the Mach 1 out on the track when they had one. Also felt like a pitch to GM to not kill the Camaro, but that’s set in stone already.

They do throw some bouquets to the PP2 and the Extra Throttle House channel they drive a 350R and have nothing but praise for it (as they have also had for the base 350 and the GT500 and the Ford GT), so I don’t think they’re Ford haters per se. Just came across poorly in this video

The Mustang sucked on the track compared to the 1LE. It was slower than a hellcat! I think it was the Mustang that came across poorly, not throttle house.

Yep I agree pretty nice review BUT they should have compared it to the Dark Horse or GT with magnaride at least. And I still do not believe they look alike at all. Either way I am glad the Camaro was pounded in a straight line. LS < Coyote

It’s been LT since 2016 btw. Totally new generation of engine. MagneRide would have helped a bit, but not enough to close the gap substantially. They already ran a 1LE vs PP2 on the same tire same day and the 1LE was 1.2 sec faster. Different league. That Camaro also beat the PP2 in the drag, so the 486 hp and A10 combo definitely helped. The A10 helps the Mustang much more than it helps the Camaro due to the torque difference and power delivery between the two engines.

 

[Hack]

I've heard that LS is better than LT. Can the Chevy person in this thread discuss their thoughts? Does the LS from those years of Camaro have cylinder deactivation?

 

[MAGS1]

The Mustang sucked on the track compared to the 1LE. It was slower than a hellcat! I think it was the Mustang that came across poorly, not throttle house.



It’s been LT since 2016 btw. Totally new generation of engine. MagneRide would have helped a bit, but not enough to close the gap substantially. They already ran a 1LE vs PP2 on the same tire same day and the 1LE was 1.2 sec faster. Different league. That Camaro also beat the PP2 in the drag, so the 486 hp and A10 combo definitely helped. The A10 helps the Mustang much more than it helps the Camaro due to the torque difference and power delivery between the two engines.

I think TH deserves some criticism here. Comparing a non-track version of the Mustang to the track ready version of the Camaro isn’t fair for comparing track times. PP1 vs 1/2SS Camaro would’ve been a better comparison for this video. I would not expect a PP1 (S550 or S650) to do a better lap time (or even be close) than a 1LE. The Dark Horse vs 1LE would be interesting and a better comp but I’m guessing it will be a while before they can get their hands on a DH.

And, I really enjoy the TH videos. I think overall they do a really good job of pointing out the strong points and weak points of the cars they drive. They have their favorites for sure but I think they are pretty fair with 95% of their comments.

 

[shogun32]

Bottom line for me is the Camaro isn't an option because it has cylinder deactivation and direct injection only.

No deactivation on 1le. GM isn't that stupid. The di only is unfortunate as it prevents e85...

The only mustang in the peer group of an ss/1le is the mach1 and 2018+ gt350 and now the DH. The PP2 is a half step behind. It's dampers aren't up to scratch, ignoring the whole coolers and trans ratios.

 

[Hack]

No deactivation on 1le. GM isn't that stupid. The di only is unfortunate as it prevents e85...

The only mustang in the peer group of an ss/1le is the mach1 and 2018+ gt350 and now the DH.

Any Mustang with comparably sticky tires and relatively stiff suspension, in other words.

I would say they are in the same peer group. TH's tiny track does help the lighter car with stickier tires. Most comparisons the GT350 was faster than the M2, but on TH's track the M2 was quicker.

 

[Joshinator99]

I've heard that LS is better than LT. Can the Chevy person in this thread discuss their thoughts? Does the LS from those years of Camaro have cylinder deactivation?

LT is direct injection and LS is port injected, that’s the main difference. Direct injection makes more power than port does, but there are limits to how much fuel those components will flow. I have some of the biggest DI fueling available for LT engines and I’m tapped out at 1059 WHP, and those components were expensive (nearly $7K for high pressure fuel pump and injectors).

No deactivation on 1le. GM isn't that stupid. The di only is unfortunate as it prevents e85...

The only mustang in the peer group of an ss/1le is the mach1 and 2018+ gt350 and now the DH. The PP2 is a half step behind. It's dampers aren't up to scratch, ignoring the whole coolers and trans ratios.

Not true unfortunately. All versions of the LT1 (1LE or not) have the AFM system hardware. The manual transmission cars do not have the software enabled, but the exact same crappy AFM lifters are still installed. Also the 1LE is available with the A10 since 2019 and that 1LE version will have AFM system fully active as well.

Also incorrect on the E85 point. Both LT1 and LT4 have flex fueling available through the ECM with the simple addition of a GM ethanol sensor plus enabling in the tune. You can absolutely run E85 with DI and most of the big power LT powered Camaros are running it (myself included).

Hope this clears up some confusion.

 

[13GetThere]

No deactivation on 1le. GM isn't that stupid. The di only is unfortunate as it prevents e85...

The only mustang in the peer group of an ss/1le is the mach1 and 2018+ gt350 and now the DH. The PP2 is a half step behind. It's dampers aren't up to scratch, ignoring the whole coolers and trans ratios.

I think if you really check, you'll find that the dampers, springs, and sways are the same in the Mach 1 as the PP2

 

[shogun32]

Also the 1LE is available with the A10 since 2019 and that 1LE version will have AFM system fully active as well.

I think you meant 2021 when gm sullied the 1le trim by allowing auto trans. In 19 manual was the only option.

To run e85 you need aftermarket injectors with more flow. That's what I meant by not being able to run e. I had an e40 tune on the maro because that's all that could be pushed. Mustang 18+ can run e85, stock.

I didn't know the deactivation lifters were still installed. I'm pretty sure I've read differently, but will defer to your deeper knowledge.

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