10R80 Owners - ULTIMATE M6G 10R80 Facts + Resolutions to harsh or no shift conditions

[Jstang23]

Couple of days ago something very strange happened to me.
Car (engine and transmission) fully in temperature, I put the transmission in Sport Mode and pull the downshift paddle to have her in the lowest gear possible.
She goes into first, the problem is won't get out until i reduce the engine speed, then she goes into second with a big jerk.
Kept her in manual for a few shifts and all of them are extremely rough.

All gear changes both up and down were extremely rough in Sport Mode using the paddles. All of that I tried with very low throttle at intermediate engine speed.

Put the car back in D and everything was fine again.
Engine and transmission strategy are the latest available from Ford.

The transmission always had clear, crisp shifts in Sport Mode and even using the paddles at moderate to full throttle.
What's your experience? Is it normal to shift like you've been rear ended at moderate engine speed, low gears and low load?

During low speeds to medium speeds, when the transmission is cold I have experienced rough shifts from time to time. Especially in those lower gears. But since yours was warm, I'm not sure. Although out of first gear if you don't reach 3-4k rpms the shift will be super slow, but not rough. In addition, you should be applying a "constant" throttle input to receive the smoothest fastest shifts. If you're regulating throttle the transmission will try to "predict" your throttle input with low success.

Edit: This is all assuming you are manually shifting the transmission. If any of this is happening while its controlling itself take it in for inspection immediately!

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[SergioDiego]

My smooth downshifts are starting to feel unsmooth and jerky again :(

3-4-5 ? if yes google CDF Drum .

 

[luca1290]

Although out of first gear if you don't reach 3-4k rpms the shift will be super slow, but not rough. In addition, you should be applying a "constant" throttle input to receive the smoothest fastest shifts. If you're regulating throttle the transmission will try to "predict" your throttle input with low success.

I made a test run and I can confirm what you said.
At higher speeds and loads shifts are faster and more predictable. Probably the hydraulic pump works better at higher RPMs.
In addition to that, I can say that at lower loads are not that bad but just "out of context" when you compare what happens when you are going faster. Just you don't notice it that much because of the driving dynamic.

Edit: This is all assuming you are manually shifting the transmission. If any of this is happening while its controlling itself take it in for inspection immediately!

In Normal, Sport and Sport+ the feeling is egregious.

Guess it was just me.
Thank yo for taking time to reply, still learning the car and this took me a little by surprise.

 

[Cobra Jet]

3-4-5 ? if yes google CDF Drum .

@SergioDiego
Is the above pulled from a service manual or 10R80 shop manual or some other Tech Bulletin? First I'm seeing those images.

What is the cause for that hardware to move out of place?

 

[SergioDiego]

@SergioDiego
Is the above pulled from a service manual or 10R80 shop manual or some other Tech Bulletin? First I'm seeing those images.

What is the cause for that hardware to move out of place?

Hi. it's a very common issue. the CDF drum is responsible for 3-4-5 gears. All the problems that many of us have with hard shifting for 3-4-5 or slipping gears is because Ford manufactured a bad part. This is why there is a rev. B for this part.






Ford; Part Number: JL3Z-7H351-B; Replaces: HL3Z*7H351*A, JL3Z-7H351-A
You also need to replace Ford JL3Z-7B067-B or the bushings for this part


This is how can you test the CDF holding pressure.

 

[Flyhalf]

AMBIENT 96f.

Max trans temp.after 1hr of slow traffic 140f!
THE BYPASS I INVENTED definitely works!

I have a 650 setrab as cooler.
Fyi
Engine oil temp max 200f
CHT max 196

https://instagram.com/stories/itali...ource=ig_story_item_share&igshid=MDJmNzVkMjY=

 

[chalexander]

New TSB 23-2123 - April 13, 2023

​
TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 10R80 - Harsh/Delayed Engagement And/Or Harsh/Delayed Shift	23-2123 13 April 2023​
This bulletin supersedes 22-2139. Model: Ford 2018-2021 Expedition 2017-2020 F-150 2018-2021 Mustang 2019-2023 Ranger Lincoln 2018-2021 Navigator Summary This article supersedes TSB 22-2139 to update vehicle model years affected. Issue: Some 2017-2020 F-150, 2018-2021 Expedition/Navigator/Mustang and 2019-2023 Ranger vehicles equipped with a 10R80 automatic transmission may exhibit a harsh engagement/harsh shift/delayed shift. It is possible the vehicle may also have an illuminated malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) or diagnostic trouble codes (DTC) P0751, P0752, P0756, P0757, P0761, P0762, P0766, P0767, P0771, P0772, P2700, P2701, P2702, P2703, P2704, P2705, P2707, P2708, P0729, P0731, P0732, P0733, P0734, P0735, P0736, P076F, P07D9, P07F6 and/or P07F7 stored in the powertrain control module (PCM) or transmission control module (TCM). This may be due to incompatibility of the adaptive calibration to adapt to hardware break-in over time. To correct the condition, follow the Service Procedure steps to overhaul the main control valve body and/or perform an adaptive learning drive cycle. Action: Follow the Service Procedure to correct the condition on vehicles that meet all of the following criteria: • One of the following vehicles: - 2017-2020 F-150 - 2018-2021 Expedition/Navigator/Mustang - 2019-2023 Ranger • 10R80 automatic transmission • At least one of the following symptoms: - Harsh engagement - Harsh shift - Delayed shift Parts Service Part Number Quantity Description Unit of Issue Piece Quantity W712658-S439​ 1​ Solenoid Retaining Plate Bolt 4​ 2​ HL3Z-7G007-A​ 6​ Solenoid Retaining Clips 1​ 6​ W520113-S440​ 1​ Stabilizer Bar Bracket Nuts 4​ 4​ W715131-S442​ 1​ Transmission Fluid Cooler Tube Bolt 4​ 1​ JL1Z-7N134-A​ 1​ Park Override Bolt (Rotary Gear Shift) 1​ 1​ W718353-S900​ 1​ Transmission Mount Bolt (4WD) F-150 4​ 4​ W711140-S901​ 1​ Transmission Mount Bolt (RWD) F-150 4​ 3​ XT-12-QULV​ As Needed​ Motorcraft® MERCON® ULV Automatic Transmission Fluid ​ ​ Quantity refers to the amount of the service part number required to repair the vehicle. Unit of Issue refers to the number of individual pieces included in a service part number package. Piece Quantity refers to the total number of individual pieces required to repair the vehicle. As Needed indicates the amount of the part may vary and/or is not a whole number. Parts can be billed out as non-whole numbers, including less than 1. Parts Parts To Inspect And Replace Only If Necessary Service Part Number Quantity Description Unit of Issue Piece Quantity HL3Z-7A191-B​ If Needed​ Fluid Pan Gasket 1​ 1​ HL3Z-7A098-A​ If Needed​ Fluid Filter 1​ 1​ HL3Z-7J227-A​ If Needed​ Auxiliary Pump Tube O-ring (Auto-Stop-Start) 1​ 1​ HL3Z-7G199-A​ If Needed​ Auxiliary Pump Tube Seal (Auto-Stop-Start) 1​ 1​ HL3Z-7A248-D​ If Needed​ Transmission Fluid Pump Seal 1​ 1​ 7T4Z-7Z302-A​ If Needed​ Transmission Fluid Filter Seal 1​ 1​ 5L7Z-7J324-A​ If Needed​ Transmission Fluid Cooler Tube Backing Ring 2​ 2​ 5L7Z-7D285-A​ If Needed​ Transmission Fluid Cooler Tube Seal 2​ 2​ HL3Z-7Z490-E​ If Needed​ Chanel Plate 1​ 1​ JL3Z-7Z490-D​ If Needed​ Separator Plate (Mustang, Built On Or Before 13-Jan-2021) 1​ 1​ JL1Z-7Z490-C​ If Needed​ Separator Plate (Expedition With Rotary Gear Shift Knob, Navigator) 1​ 1​ JL3Z-7Z490-E​ If Needed​ Separator Plate (Expedition With Column Shift, Ranger, 2018-2020 F-150) 1​ 1​ HL3Z-7Z490-D​ If Needed​ Separator Plate (2017 F-150) 1​ 1​ L1MZ-7Z490-J​ If Needed​ Separator Plate (2021 Mustang, Built On Or After 14-Jan-2021) 1​ 1​ If Needed indicates the part is not mandatory. Warranty Status: Eligible under provisions of New Vehicle Limited Warranty (NVLW)/Emissions Warranty/Service Part Warranty (SPW)/Special Service Part (SSP)/Extended Service Plan (ESP) coverage. Limits/policies/prior approvals are not altered by a TSB. NVLW/Emissions Warranty/SPW/SSP/ESP coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part and verified using the OASIS part coverage tool. Labor Times Description Operation No. Time All vehicles: Retrieve DTCs, (No) Reprogram The Transmission Strategy Download Into The PCM/TCM And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (No) Repair Complete (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123A​ 0.8 Hrs.​ 2018-2020 F-150 4X4 5.0L: Retrieve DTCs, (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123B​ 4.9 Hrs.​ 2018-2020 F-150 4X4 5.0L: Retrieve DTCs, (No) Reprogram The Transmission Strategy Download Into The PCM/TCM And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123C​ 5.5 Hrs.​ 2018-2020 F-150 4X2 5.0L: Retrieve DTCs, (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123D​ 4.7 Hrs.​ 2018-2020 F-150 4X2 5.0L: Retrieve DTCs, (No) Reprogram The Transmission Strategy Download Into The PCM/TCM And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123E​ 5.3 Hrs.​ 2018-2020 F-150 4X2/4X4 3.0L: Retrieve DTCs, (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123F​ 4.0 Hrs.​ 2018-2020 F-150 4X2/4X4 3.0L: Retrieve DTCs, (No) Reprogram The Transmission Strategy Download Into The PCM/TCM And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123G​ 4.6 Hrs.​ 2017-2020 F-150 4X4 Raptor 3.5L EcoBoost: Retrieve DTCs, (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123H​ 4.1 Hrs.​ 2017-2020 F-150 4X4 Raptor 3.5L EcoBoost: Retrieve DTCs, (No) Reprogram The Transmission Strategy Download Into The PCM/TCM And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123J​ 4.7 Hrs.​ 2017-2020 F-150 4X2/4X4 3.5L EcoBoost: Retrieve DTCs, (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123K​ 4.5 Hrs.​ 2017-2020 F-150 4X2/4X4 3.5L EcoBoost: Retrieve DTCs, (No) Reprogram The Transmission Strategy Download Into The PCM/TCM And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123L​ 5.2 Hrs.​ 2017-2020 F-150 4X2/4X4 2.7L EcoBoost: Retrieve DTCs, (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123M​ 4.5 Hrs.​ 2017-2020 F-150 4X2/4X4 2.7L EcoBoost: Retrieve DTCs, (No) Reprogram The Transmission Strategy Download Into The PCM/TCM And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123N​ 5.1 Hrs.​ 2019-2023 Ranger 4X2/4X4: Retrieve DTCs, (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123P​ 4.0 Hrs.​ 2019-2023 Ranger 4X2/4X4: Retrieve DTCs, (No) Reprogram The Transmission Strategy Download Into The PCM/TCM And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123Q​ 4.6 Hrs.​ 2018-2021 Expedition/Navigator 4X2/4X4: Retrieve DTCs, (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123R​ 4.6 Hrs.​ 2018-2021 Expedition/Navigator 4X2/4X4: Retrieve DTCs, (No) Reprogram The Transmission Strategy Download Into The PCM/TCM And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123S​ 5.3 Hrs.​ 2018-2021 Mustang: Retrieve DTCs, (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123T​ 3.9 Hrs.​ 2018-2021 Mustang: Retrieve DTCs, (No) Reprogram The Transmission Strategy Download Into The PCM/TCM And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 232123U​ 4.5 Hrs.​ Repair/Claim Coding Causal Part: 7A100 Condition Code: 49 Service Procedure 1. Are any of the following DTCs present: P0751, P0752, P0756, P0757, P0761, P0762, P0766, P0767, P0771, P0772, P2700, P2701, P2702, P2703, P2704, P2705, P2707, P2708, P0729, P0731, P0732, P0733, P0734, P0735, P0736, P076F, P07D9, P07F6 and/or P07F7? (1). Yes - proceed to Step 4. (2). No - proceed to Step 2. 2. Reprogram the transmission strategy download into the PCM/TCM. Perform the adaptive learning drive cycle. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 307-01. 3. Does the vehicle still exhibit the condition after performing the transmission strategy download and adaptive learning drive cycle? (1). Yes - proceed to Step 4. (2). No - repair is complete. 4. Overhaul the main control valve body and road test vehicle following the adaptive learning drive cycle. Refer to WSM, Section 307-01. (1). Upon removal of the transmission fluid pan, metal flakes may be present on the magnet. This is a normal condition. (Figure 1) Figure 1 - Example of a normal amount of metal flakes on the transmission fluid pan magnet

 

[Qcman17]

@chalexander

I'm just curious what is different between these 2 notes below in the TSB? They seem similar unless the 2nd note means if the new strategy doesn't improve despite reprogramming? Thx for posting this BTW when my car is in next I'm going to push for this to be checked on at least.

2018-2021 Mustang: Retrieve DTCs, (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations)	232123T	3.9 Hrs.
2018-2021 Mustang: Retrieve DTCs, (No) Reprogram The Transmission Strategy Download Into The PCM/TCM And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations)	232123U	4.5 Hrs.

Also I see there is a lawsuit over the 10R80 noted on Ford Authority today oddly enough regarding some of these issues.

https://fordauthority.com/2023/04/ford-10r80-transmission-class-action-lawsuit-filed/

Some of it seems a bit questionable regarding safety issues due to the trans being rough shifting I prefer to just call it kind of shitty when it does that.

 

[chalexander]

@chalexander

I'm just curious what is different between these 2 notes below in the TSB? They seem similar unless the 2nd note means if the new strategy doesn't improve despite reprogramming? Thx for posting this BTW when my car is in next I'm going to push for this to be checked on at least.

2018-2021 Mustang: Retrieve DTCs, (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations)	232123T	3.9 Hrs.
2018-2021 Mustang: Retrieve DTCs, (No) Reprogram The Transmission Strategy Download Into The PCM/TCM And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Yes) Overhaul The Main Control Valve Body And Perform Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations)	232123U	4.5 Hrs.

Also I see there is a lawsuit over the 10R80 noted on Ford Authority today oddly enough regarding some of these issues.

https://fordauthority.com/2023/04/ford-10r80-transmission-class-action-lawsuit-filed/

Some of it seems a bit questionable regarding safety issues due to the trans being rough shifting I prefer to just call it kind of shitty when it does that.

I think the first note states, if DTC's are stored > Overhaul valve body.

In the second note, if DTCs are not stored, then perform a reset.
If the issues still persists > Overhaul valve body.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Hi. it's a very common issue. the CDF drum is responsible for 3-4-5 gears. All the problems that many of us have with hard shifting for 3-4-5 or slipping gears is because Ford manufactured a bad part. This is why there is a rev. B for this part.






Ford; Part Number: JL3Z-7H351-B; Replaces: HL3Z*7H351*A, JL3Z-7H351-A
You also need to replace Ford JL3Z-7B067-B or the bushings for this part


This is how can you test the CDF holding pressure.

@SergioDiego

I applaud you for posting this info. It's very helpful and I don't think this has been brought up at all in any 10R80 threads on this site (including this one) that I can recall.

How did you find out about this?

In many of the SSM/TSB's the 10R80 shifting issue is only relayed in docs as "harsh shifting" with no other reference to specific gearing. Many of those docs only reference the reflash of the 10R80 software due to Revision "x" or the need of a valve body replacement and subsequent software reflash needed after a valve body replacement.

The latest 10R80 SSM 51236 from December 2022 only references the 8, 9, and 10th gear harshness but Ford states this "is normal characteristic".

There was this earlier SSM 47361 that was back from 2018 time period and which described the one-way clutch failure, which affected 3rd gear - but I'm not sure if this is even related to what you have about?
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/2018-10r80-a10-most-recent-tsb’s-in-here.102918/#post-2393869

 

[chalexander]

Took my car in this week to have this issue looked at. They have a new valve body on order. Hope to have it installed in the next week or two.

Some problems I have;

Harsh engagement P > R (feels like I backed into something)
Delayed shift from 1st > 2nd of up to 3-4 seconds when cold
Harsh shift from 1st > 2nd when warm
Delayed shift from 4th > 5th

 

[Jstang23]

Took my car in this week to have this issue looked at. They have a new valve body on order. Hope to have it installed in the next week or two.

Some problems I have;

Harsh engagement P > R (feels like I backed into something)
Delayed shift from 1st > 2nd of up to 3-4 seconds when cold
Harsh shift from 1st > 2nd when warm
Delayed shift from 4th > 5th

The delayed shift from 1-2 when cold is normal. Especially if you are going slow or applying a non-constant amount of throttle.

 

[2016S550]

Only issue I ever have is a bump from 4 to 3 while downshifting. All other gears seem fine both up and down. It’s not consistent, but seems to happen more often when cold if I had to guess. It’s not bad enough to leave it at the dealer. With the powertrain warranty I am not gonna worry about it for now.

 

[chalexander]

My 1 > 2 shift delay is not normal. It will shift from 1st and then almost go to neutral before shifting 3-4 seconds later into 2nd. I can rev the car up between shifts !

it's getting to the point where it is dangerous...if I pull out into traffic and this happens I could get T-boned or worse, because the delay is so bad.

 

[2016S550]

Mine always goes directly 1-3, I never even see the 2nd gear indicator unless I am in Sport+ mode I believe, maybe even Track.

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