Engine knock 2019 GT with Ford tune, no codes.

[StangTime]

I installed the Ford Performance calibration tune M-9603-M8B in April of 2021 (no other power adders).
Car ran great but it made a bit more of a diesel noise at idle.
Changed the oil added fuel stabilizer and stored the car for the winter last October.
In the spring, of this year, the diesel noise was a bit louder.
My first fill up of the season was with Costco 91 octane.
This is where things start to get concerning.

Shortly into this tank of gas, I started hearing a mild knocking sound from the engine only when fully warmed up.
At first I thought I was hearing things. But it kept happening more often.
Sometimes I could hear it with the window up. With the windows down and sitting in traffic it was embarrassingly loud when taking off.
It would only happen between 1500rpm and 3000rpm steady but moderate acceleration under load.
If I really got on it, I would be through the RPM range where it would occur and I would not hear it at all.
No DTC's at all. Just a quick metallic knocking from deep in the block, like the sound you hear when you stall out a manual car.

I burned through the Costco gas and began using Petro 94. Still knocking. No codes.
I tried octane booster with no improvement.
I am back to using Shell 91 non-ethanol due to the car going into storage soon.
The knock has gotten louder.
I can't make it knock in neutral. The engine has to be under load.
Air temperature has no effect. Once the engine is toasty warm it knocks and the diesel noise is quite loud at idle.
I also have the VCT solenoid deceleration rattle when the engine is cold.

So with the car going into winter storage at the end of the month I will be changing the oil.
I have a Blackstone oil sample analysis kit ready. I'm not sure how much this will tell me, but I'm curious to know if the engine is eating itself. I also plan on cutting open the oil filter this time.
I plan on removing the spark plugs to inspect them and if I can get my hands on a borescope, have a look inside the cylinders.
I also want to grab a data log when accelerating up a hill if I can in the next few days.

Regardless of what the above tests indicate, I plan on going back to the stock air intake and tune and have Ford diagnose it. There's no way a healthy engine should be making this noise.
Hopefully there won't be an issue if any warranty repairs need to be done. I did not have an ASE do the Ford Perf tune install.

Any other suggestions?
What values should I be monitoring (I think the Procal4 can do 6 or 7 parameters).

F.. this is pissing me off.

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[EFI]

Kinda sounds like the "normal" engine noises of the Gen 3. You wouldn't really hear actual engine pinging, and it sounds like you have not actually scanned it for KR yet.

My guess you're hearing the 2k rattle that alot of people get after the first oil change.

 

[StangTime]

Kinda sounds like the "normal" engine noises of the Gen 3. You wouldn't really hear actual engine pinging, and it sounds like you have not actually scanned it for KR yet.

My guess you're hearing the 2k rattle that alot of people get after the first oil change.

I bought the car new in 2019. I'm coming up on my 3rd annual oil change. The thing is, I didn't hear any knocking in prior years. It just started after that tank of Costco gas in the spring and it's been getting progressively louder.
I've ran with the Procal4 data logging. Knock counts don't reveal anything terrible. This was a log I did after the Costco gas was out of the tank. Do you see anything abnormal?

 

[Mike Pfeifer]

Maybe the noise is not in the engine?

 

[StangTime]

Maybe the noise is not in the engine?

The sound appears to be coming from the front. But you're right. I have seen loose O2 sensors and heat shields rattle on other cars. I think it's worth getting underneath to check everything from the exhaust manifolds down.

 

[Mike Pfeifer]

The sound appears to be coming from the front. But you're right. I have seen loose O2 sensors and heat shields rattle on other cars. I think it's worth getting underneath to check everything from the exhaust manifolds down.

The one thing that stands out to me, as someone who has had plenty of mechanical engine knock issues over the years, is that you can’t get it to do it in neutral. Admittedly, I’m not super familiar with the coyote, so maybe there is something I’m not aware of there, but any car that I have worked on that had a mechanical knock did it whether loaded or not.

 

[ice445]

The sound appears to be coming from the front. But you're right. I have seen loose O2 sensors and heat shields rattle on other cars. I think it's worth getting underneath to check everything from the exhaust manifolds down.

I'm chasing a heatshield rattle in the same RPM range, it doesn't do it all the time but it won't do it in neutral either. We probably have the same thing going on. I already found one of my cat shields was loose, but I haven't really put a lot of effort into finding it so far (since it's not that bad for me). Tightening that shield definitely helped cut down on it but it's not completely gone.

 

[EFI]

This was a log I did after the Costco gas was out of the tank. Do you see anything abnormal?

Is there an actual KR value? I think the one you logged is the frequency which is hard to decipher.

 

[StangTime]

The one thing that stands out to me, as someone who has had plenty of mechanical engine knock issues over the years, is that you can’t get it to do it in neutral. Admittedly, I’m not super familiar with the coyote, so maybe there is something I’m not aware of there, but any car that I have worked on that had a mechanical knock did it whether loaded or not.

That's why I keep going in circles on this. It sounds like a rod or wrist pin knock. BUT... it only does it within a certain RPM range and won't do it in neutral. I tried a brake stand and brought the RPM's up slowly. I couldn't reproduce before the brakes started groaning. Hard to do on a manual.

I'm chasing a heatshield rattle in the same RPM range, it doesn't do it all the time but it won't do it in neutral either. We probably have the same thing going on. I already found one of my cat shields was loose, but I haven't really put a lot of effort into finding it so far (since it's not that bad for me). Tightening that shield definitely helped cut down on it but it's not completely gone.

I'll be under the car next week doing my winter prep and also doing a trans fluid change. I will be inspecting everything underneath. The characteristic of this noise points to something with some mass than a heat shield. Like two large steel ball bearings tapping against each other. Maybe exhaust manifold? Or clutch problem? Let me know if you discover anything and I'll do the same.

 

[StangTime]

Is there an actual KR value? I think the one you logged is the frequency which is hard to decipher.

Do you mean knock counts? I made this video shortly after the knocking started. I am in neutral lightly revving a few times to see the knock counter. But what I have learned is this is raw data from the sensors. Not indicative of a true knock condition but who knows? I never got a definitive answer on what those numbers mean. I did data log TimingAdv shown in my previous posts.

 

[EFI]

Do you mean knock counts?

Knock counts I believe is a sum since the engine was started.

You want the live knock value that is 0 most of the time but then blips positive or negative briefly.

 

[StangTime]

Knock counts I believe is a sum since the engine was started.

You want the live knock value that is 0 most of the time but then blips positive or negative briefly.

Ah ok. This is the one I should be logging: KnKAdder - "Timing corrections based on knock sensor feedbacks"
I'll grab a few logs with this enabled this evening. Some uphill pulls always guarantee I'll hear the knock.

These are the only parameters I see for knock:
-KnkSen1_Cnts - Raw noise data from Knock sensor bank 1
-KnkSen2_Cnts - Raw noise data from knock sensor bank 2
-Lrnd_knk_Mod - Not sure?
-KnKAdder - Timing corrections based on knock sensor feedbacks

 

[Crew4991]

Ah ok. This is the one I should be logging: KnKAdder - "Timing corrections based on knock sensor feedbacks"
I'll grab a few logs with this enabled this evening. Some uphill pulls always guarantee I'll hear the knock.

These are the only parameters I see for knock:
-KnkSen1_Cnts - Raw noise data from Knock sensor bank 1
-KnkSen2_Cnts - Raw noise data from knock sensor bank 2
-Lrnd_knk_Mod - Not sure?
-KnKAdder - Timing corrections based on knock sensor feedbacks

Sorry, I can't help with this but figured maybe you needed a laugh.

Maybe George Costanza can help you:

 

[ice445]

That's why I keep going in circles on this. It sounds like a rod or wrist pin knock. BUT... it only does it within a certain RPM range and won't do it in neutral. I tried a brake stand and brought the RPM's up slowly. I couldn't reproduce before the brakes started groaning. Hard to do on a manual.


I'll be under the car next week doing my winter prep and also doing a trans fluid change. I will be inspecting everything underneath. The characteristic of this noise points to something with some mass than a heat shield. Like two large steel ball bearings tapping against each other. Maybe exhaust manifold? Or clutch problem? Let me know if you discover anything and I'll do the same.

Could be the shift rail counterweight on the transmission too, they are known to get loose.

 

[StangTime]

Could be the shift rail counterweight on the transmission too, they are known to get loose.

I will definitely be inspecting that stupid thing. Sometimes they actually fall off.

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