I hope not - Autoweek: next generation is last ICE Mustang

[Bikeman315]

Laugh all you will - grids can't even sustain people using A/C in their homes in certain states. Add the influx of EV without any significant changes to the grid or improvements, it's all a shit show.

I'm not saying EV is evil, all I'm saying is - no one is looking at the big picture and EV production isn't any greener NOR the solution to force people into buying EV.

As was stated too - does everyone think the power grids are run by elf's or something, it's still reliant on old fashioned dino juice...

The grid needs an overhaul EV or not. It is long, long overdue. I believe the increased use of EV's will actually force those responsible for the grids to start making the needed improvements. Or at least I can hope.

Will anyone on here buy a used EV where it's skateboard battery life expectancy has been drained and it will need a replacement? It's a YES or NO question, but everyone skips over it.

This is an excellent point and the answer is no, I doubt anyone would. The industry is going to have to address that.

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[Bikeman315]

Anyone know how many miles these batteries get before they crap out? 50k 100k?

Yes.

https://joinyaa.com/guides/ev-battery-warranties/

Federal law requires automakers to warranty EV and hybrid batteries for at least eight years or 100,000 miles. California requires a 10-year, 150,000-mile warranty on EV and hybrid batteries.

Also keep in mind that the batteries are made up of replaceable cells. You do not need to replace the entire unit, just the cells that go bad.

 

[Bikeman315]

So what should we as humans do? Delay electric until its better? The end game for transportation cannot be oil as we will run out.

Well we are not really running out of fossil fuels, that's was the old reason given, before the current "Going Green". But the issue is the cost of finding, extracting and refining fossil fuels. That's where the real cost is now. And that is why we need alternate sources of energy. Today it's electric, tomorrow who knows. Personally I like nuclear fusion.

 

[Mike Pfeifer]

Well we are not really running out of fossil fuels, that's was the old reason given, before the current "Going Green". But the issue is the cost of finding, extracting and refining fossil fuels. That's where the real cost is now. And that is why we need alternate sources of energy. Today it's electric, tomorrow who knows. Personally I like nuclear fusion.

Ooh, a nuclear fusion drive Mustang sounds nice!

 

[Strokerswild]

Ooh, a nuclear fusion drive Mustang sounds nice!

 

[ay1820]

Laugh all you will - grids can't even sustain people using A/C in their homes in certain states. Add the influx of EV without any significant changes to the grid or improvements, it's all a shit show.

Completely agree with this. Infrastructure will be a pacing item for large scale EV adoption. But as you say, it needs to happen anyway. Maybe consumer demand driven be EV demand helps force the issue.

I'm not saying EV is evil, all I'm saying is - no one is looking at the big picture and EV production isn't any greener NOR the solution to force people into buying EV.

I am not sure I agree that no-one is looking at the bigger picture. Anecdotally, there seems to be a lot more discussion recently about charger infrastructure and power grids. I have also seen reports on how even the existing charging stations are starting to break down and fail as a result of even the relatively small increase in use we are starting to see. There are also growing complaints about the raising cost of charging at a commercial stations. Reality is starting to set in.

These are problems that need to be solved for EVs to succeed. You are right that there has not been a lot of practical discussion about solutions yet, but understanding the problem is the first step, and they will either be solved or EVs will fail.

 

[paulm1]

So what should we as humans do? Delay electric until its better? The end game for transportation cannot be oil as we will run out.

There are people that really believe we will run out of fossil fuels?? Wow.

 

[Mspider]

There are people that really believe we will run out of fossil fuels?? Wow.

I cant tell if you are serious or not.

 

[paulm1]

Will anyone buy a used EV where it's skateboard battery life expectancy has been drained and it will need a replacement? It's a YES or NO question, but everyone skips over it.

Yes.....same rich people who buy them now, then brag about how much they paid for new batteries even though they got a $20 tax credit from uncle sam.

 

[paulm1]

I cant tell if you are serious or not.

There's 200yrs of natural gas buried in the marsellas shale in my state of pa, 40yrs ago nobody knew it was there. Theres 100yrs of oil in
alaska in places prohibited to drill in. Its called exploration.

 

[Mspider]

There's 200yrs of natural gas buried in the marsellas shale in my state of pa, 40yrs ago nobody knew it was there. Theres 100yrs of oil in
alaska in places prohibited to drill in. Its called exploration.

So it goes back to this question.

We may have oil for another 50, 100, 200 years. Surely we are set in our lifetime most likely.

At what point do we decide to move off this finite supply of oil?

 

[Bikeman315]

There are people that really believe we will run out of fossil fuels?? Wow.

We have been told for decades that there is just a finite amount of fossil fuels in our ground. And once it' s gone and gone for good. So yes, of course, people believe it.

But, that's no longer really the issue. As you mentioned new technology has found more reserves of fossil fuels. The issue today is getting the oil companies around the world to spend the billions of dollars to find, extract and refine those reserves. With the continuing push for electric powered vehicles it seems unlikely that they will be willing to take that risk.

 

[GT 550]

Infrastructure will be a pacing item for large scale EV adoption.

I'd genuinely like to think that would be the case. Not sure what it's like in the US but here infrastructure always lags and is generally poorly managed and/or regulated. A remedy is only considered when a situation becomes untenable and often takes years to fix.

Once the money has been made those who profit most - often with the assistance of government grants - essentially withdraw their involvement. Laws were introduced to ensure contributions to infrastructure but the benchmark is low. Downstream problems are left to governments and by default taxpayers to sort out.

Our government regulates the grid and the energy market. Both are a complete mess. The uptake of domestic solar has been marred because consumer demand was completely underestimated and the grid infrastructure can't cope with the input from home generated solar. Electricity companies are turning off solar feed-in that was a cheap source of renewable energy in order to not overload the grid .

 

[Hack]

in 2022 you are correct, 2030, 2040,2050 maybe it will be different. What I can tell you is that in 100 years the world will not be running on the remains of dead plants and animals from millions of years ago.

There's no reason why it can't continue for hundreds of years.

Even if they were not any better for the environment. Electricity can come from a renewable source. Like nuclear, the sun, wind and water. Of course in 2022 a good amount of our electricity comes from gas and coal. In time I do believe we will get better and better at using renewable energy.

Regardless of what people want to believe. Oil is finite and it will be all gone someday. Maybe 50 years from now or 500 years. Maybe electric cars are not the future, but gas certainly is not. Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe.

My basic point is that we do not have a choice to get off oil.

Every year since oil was originally discovered the known reserves have INCREASED. Our knowledge of where and how to get oil has outpaced our usage of oil. So we really don't even know how much longer. Certainly hundreds of years.

Anyone know how many miles these batteries get before they crap out? 50k 100k?

It depends on how you use them. Hard acceleration and fast DC charges will damage batteries over time. And currently the cost to replace the batteries is such that most people won't want to buy a used EV with 100,000 miles. So, the EV may only be used a few years and then thrown away. Great for manufacturers, tough for people without a lot of extra money to buy new cars.

So it goes back to this question.

We may have oil for another 50, 100, 200 years. Surely we are set in our lifetime most likely.

At what point do we decide to move off this finite supply of oil?

When someone comes up with another technology that most people prefer would be the best time. As EVs get better and better, at some point people will want to buy them. And then at some later point if they continue to improve, almost everyone will want them. Then ICE vehicles would die a natural death.

People say that the EV cars are for gen Z. But I thought gen Z people don't like owning a house. EV and apartment are incompatible. So really EV is for the older generations that want a house and a garage. Not for people who keep their cars outside, either. Not as good as ICE for long trips. Best as a third car. Only for people with a garage and a house and the extra coin to get the rewiring done as necessary and the extra money to have a spare car for longer trips. Basically EVs are for the rich.

 

[Cobra Jet]

So what should we as humans do? Delay electric until its better? The end game for transportation cannot be oil as we will run out.

Ok - great discussion, but let's be smart about this in the least.

Automobiles (cars, trucks buses, etc), AND motorcycles AND planes AND boats/ships are not the only man made objects that are currently dependent (reliant) on OIL or gasoline OR any derivative of oil. There's factories, there's power plants, other power sources, there's home/business using it for heating/cooking, etc. there's other products that are made from oil and it's derivatives and the list goes on and on.

THAT is what I am trying to say here in the discussion - it's NOT just an "automobile" thing - but everyone is hyper focused on the automobile and pushing EV down everyone's throat. The last 100+ years of ICE isn't the issue - it may be part of it, but global warming, climate issues, etc are being compounded along with it by the destruction of this planet by US in being careless and making careless decisions.

How come no one bitches when acres of forest or acres of land is bulldozed to make a new strip mall, or another housing complex, or another business complex? Do any of you ever look around your own regions or area at all of the ABANDONED structures that could be rehabilitated, or the land used there INSTEAD of just clearing more forests and other viable open lands? When large swaths of trees are cleared or the vegetation within those acres - that too is damaging and ruining the climate. Really, really think about it... it's NOT just an ICE "automobile" thing, it isn't.

Yet again, the question is skipped:
Would anyone buy a used EV where it's battery life expectancy is 60-80% used? And would anyone be willing to put out of pocket the high cost of replacement of just not the battery but the labor and possible reprogramming associated with it? Again it's a YES or NO question.

Would everyone who has a business or home that is either operated by oil or natural gas be happy if they were forced into 100% full electric?

It's a good discussion- DON'T read INTO the posts - read as if we are discussing this side by side in person... I'm not in any way saying EV is evil - but it's not the way to go SO FAST without really looking at the bigger picture of its potential impacts when BIG GOV is trying to eliminate ICE... I mean seriously....

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