Friendly reminder not to overly rely on traction control.

[tobaccokid]

Seriously, especially to those that daily the car (like me). This isn't to debate the usefulness of TC or start a nani war.

I have winter performance tires that keep the rear end in line even in several inches of snow. I'm driving home this morning and there's sleet on the roads. These tires + TC and I still got sideways without even doing anything.

Always be prepared and alert. TC will help you but it won't save the car if you're being a derp. Stay safe, friends; don't become another youtube video.


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[Dfeeds]

Which is why some people here are forced to put studs on the tires to control the vehicle?

I have to disagree, nothing practical about driving a 460 hp rear wheel drive car in snow. Can it be done, of course, does it make sense? Not at all.

I left a college football game here in Michigan on Thanksgiving weekend, followed a GT up the freeway entrance ramp in a fairly severe snowstorm and it was fishtailing all over the place, could barely make it up the slight incline. It was a hazard.

Problem is too many people in snow states buy these as an only vehicle and think they can make it work, don't get the proper tires and it's unsafe for everyone.

But hey, to each their own, just be safe is all.

I made a 97 Mustang GT work in the snow and my 19 GT is doing just fine. I got tired of dealing with the beater so I sold it and bought a good set of winter tires + rims. It handles better than that beater. I've driven this is some severe snowstorms and I do better than the majority of cars around me that sport lesser tires. The only real "hazard" is an ignorance to the difference a set of tires can make. Your mustang story doesn't hold much merit because, for all we know, that car had all seasons or worse. This car handles great in the snow. The coyote isn't a torque monster and it's easy to keep it under control. I'd also prefer a RWD to a FWD in the snow, so another advantage there.


It seems some are misinterpreting my post a bit so I'll repeat myself, again. This wasn't a "hur dur traction control didn't keep me safe it sucks wah." This is my third winter in the car, I'm fine. My post was to be exactly as the title said, a friendly reminder for many to remember that the TC isn't perfect and shouldn't be a substitute for experience and skill.

 

[Spartan1]

I made a 97 Mustang GT work in the snow and my 19 GT is doing just fine. I got tired of dealing with the beater so I sold it and bought a good set of winter tires + rims. It handles better than that beater. I've driven this is some severe snowstorms and I do better than the majority of cars around me that sport lesser tires. The only real "hazard" is an ignorance to the difference a set of tires can make. Your mustang story doesn't hold much merit because, for all we know, that car had all seasons or worse. This car handles great in the snow. The coyote isn't a torque monster and it's easy to keep it under control. I'd also prefer a RWD to a FWD in the snow, so another advantage there.


It seems some are misinterpreting my post a bit so I'll repeat myself, again. This wasn't a "hur dur traction control didn't keep me safe it sucks wah." This is my third winter in the car, I'm fine. My post was to be exactly as the title said, a friendly reminder for many to remember that the TC isn't perfect and shouldn't be a substitute for experience and skill.

Why would you prefer RWD in snow to FWD, that makes no sense at all and is completely counter intuitive to anything, including physics?

And my point on the Mustang story was it shouldn't be done at all, if you are, you should have winter tires. But many people don't, they can afford 1 car and try to make these things work through all conditions when it's very unsafe.

 

[Dfeeds]

Why would you prefer RWD in snow to FWD, that makes no sense at all and is completely counter intuitive to anything, including physics?

And my point on the Mustang story was it shouldn't be done at all, if you are, you should have winter tires. But many people don't, they can afford 1 car and try to make these things work through all conditions when it's very unsafe.

It's not counter intuitive to anything, including physics. If you lose control of a FWD car you lose all steering response and you're at the mercy of physics. If you lose control of a RWD car you still have options to control the slide and recover. FWD is easier and more beginner friendly but it's definitely not better.

 

[Spartan1]

It's not counter intuitive to anything, including physics. If you lose control of a FWD car you lose all steering response and you're at the mercy of physics. If you lose control of a RWD car you still have options to control the slide and recover. FWD is easier and more beginner friendly but it's definitely not better.

Sorry my man, literally everything you said is incorrect, and I feel telling people that may be dangerous if they're considering one of these in a snow state. There were hundreds, but I think you get the point. Not a single article saying RWD is preferred.
____________________________________________________________
Because rear-drive vehicles have their drive wheels in a lighter part of the car than front-drive vehicles, they’re more prone to fishtailing. In this situation, a driver turns the wheel during acceleration, and the car’s rear wheels start to push it into a difficult spin. This isn’t as likely to happen with front-wheel-drive vehicles, whose wheels tend to have more traction.
__________________________________________________________
FWD cars can actually be pretty tenacious in the snow because the weight of the engine/transaxle is sitting right on top of the drive wheels. FWD is vastly better in the snow than a rear-wheel-drive car.
____________________________________________________________
FWD vehicles also get better traction because the weight of the engine and transmission are over the front wheels. Generally speaking, good traction in snow and rain makes your drive safer than if you were in a vehicle with rear wheel drive (RWD )

 

[Zooks527]

Sorry my man, literally everything you said is incorrect, and I feel telling people that may be dangerous if they're considering one of these in a snow state. There were hundreds, but I think you get the point. Not a single article saying RWD is preferred.
____________________________________________________________
Because rear-drive vehicles have their drive wheels in a lighter part of the car than front-drive vehicles, they’re more prone to fishtailing. In this situation, a driver turns the wheel during acceleration, and the car’s rear wheels start to push it into a difficult spin. This isn’t as likely to happen with front-wheel-drive vehicles, whose wheels tend to have more traction.
__________________________________________________________
FWD cars can actually be pretty tenacious in the snow because the weight of the engine/transaxle is sitting right on top of the drive wheels. FWD is vastly better in the snow than a rear-wheel-drive car.
____________________________________________________________
FWD vehicles also get better traction because the weight of the engine and transmission are over the front wheels. Generally speaking, good traction in snow and rain makes your drive safer than if you were in a vehicle with rear wheel drive (RWD )

The problem with explanations that use phrases such as "tend to" or "generally speaking" is that they slide right over the specifics of the case in point. There's not that big a front / back weight difference in a Mustang as there is in some other (especially smaller) cars. In an EcoBoost, 52% of the weight is on the front wheels, 48% on the back. In a GT, it's 53% front, 47% back.

So, assuming a 3700 pound GT, you have net 1960 lb on the front, 1740 lb on the back for a difference of 180 lb biased to the front. Under those conditions, I'd rather be in situation where I had continuous steering weight in the front without running the risk of spinning the drive wheels and losing steering ability. If you're still concerned, drop a few sandbags in the trunk to get the rear weight equal to the front, and stop worrying about it.

Contrast this with something like a Focus, where it's closer to 63% on the front / 35% on the back. In that case, RWD would be a nightmare.

And before someone winds up to tell me about what I do or don't know about the situation, look at the list of cars in my sig. I've done FWD, RWD, AWD, and 4x4 (in both front-always-rear-optional and rear-always-front-optional variants). I've driven cars with open differentials, electronic traction control, and mechanical LSDs (in one case, a 4x4 with LSDs front and back).

And if you're really curious, look up the specs on that '72 Eldorado (TLDR: 4800 lbs with 59% of the weight on the front). Even with all that weight up front, it would have its ass handed to it in the snow by the 2004 Passat, because at the end of the day, it's the tires that really make the difference.

 

[accel]

Yep I had a bad experience with the TC myself and don’t trust it personally.
It was early in the morning and the roads were slightly slippery. I had accidentally put the shifter into S instead of D. Usually I don’t put it into sport mode until I’m fully warmed up. I did a right hand onto a main road which is 70km/h and to not slow the car behind me so I gave it a slight jab of throttle thinking it was in Normal mode where the throttle is not as sensitive. My wheels started spinning a bit but nothing redicilous, I tried to correct the car but I think the TC kicked in and spun me around 180 degrees.
I wasn’t even trying to do anything crazy and have driven a lot more “enthusiastically” many times before (usually with the TC OFF).
I don’t know if it was just the “perfect” scenario to spin me out or there was something slippery on the road or the TC F’ed me?!,!

Myself would really appreciate nannies intervened when I lost control on freeway entrance.

Situation was similar to yours except I have a manual and it was a freeway right hand merge ramp. I only slightly accelerated to pull half car length ahead of another car that was merging next to me.

Mustang was under lateral and longitudinal accelerations. I lost rear end but managed to just fishtail and kept going eventually.

I can blame rear tires being worn substantially more than fronts. I also think rears were overinflated. Anyways, I felt my autocross skills playing some role in the recovery, but not TC system.

I replaced rears, checked tire pressures and bought a full day of car control training at the track nearby. I was trying to repro the situation I got into but couldn't.

I converted to squared setup since to be able to rotate tires.

 

[Dfeeds]

Sorry my man, literally everything you said is incorrect, and I feel telling people that may be dangerous if they're considering one of these in a snow state. There were hundreds, but I think you get the point. Not a single article saying RWD is preferred.
____________________________________________________________
Because rear-drive vehicles have their drive wheels in a lighter part of the car than front-drive vehicles, they’re more prone to fishtailing. In this situation, a driver turns the wheel during acceleration, and the car’s rear wheels start to push it into a difficult spin. This isn’t as likely to happen with front-wheel-drive vehicles, whose wheels tend to have more traction.
__________________________________________________________
FWD cars can actually be pretty tenacious in the snow because the weight of the engine/transaxle is sitting right on top of the drive wheels. FWD is vastly better in the snow than a rear-wheel-drive car.
____________________________________________________________
FWD vehicles also get better traction because the weight of the engine and transmission are over the front wheels. Generally speaking, good traction in snow and rain makes your drive safer than if you were in a vehicle with rear wheel drive (RWD )

Lol I always love it when someone comes in here and tells me how my preferences and experiences are wrong then begins to grab random quotes from the internet. Nothing you posted even actually indicates what I said was "incorrect," by the way.

The only thing a FWD will do better (all things being equal), in the snow, is go straight. This I won't argue, but it ends there and even that area is greyed a bit when you have a car with a good weight distribution. Once you introduce the need to navigate a twisty road, in the snow, it's completely different. If you lose control during a turn in a FWD car then you lose all steering input and you're basically stuck letting momentum take the car. That's just not the case in a RWD car. If you start sliding during that turn then you can easily control the slide to get you where you want to go. The only thing the FWD has over the RWD is that the loss of control is less likely to happen. But, again, I'd prefer to slide a bit more often, and retain control over that slide, as opposed to the less often but inevitable uncontrollable slide I'd get into with a FWD.

I've driven a variety of FWD and RWD cars with a range of all seasons and snow tires on the same roads for years. The most wheel time belongs to a 98 Ford Taurs and a 97 Mustang GT. When I was inexperienced I'd take the Taurus over the GT any day but as I gained experience that started to change. I had to make an hour commute in the Mustang in some terrible conditions on numerous occasions. The Mustang had cheap all season which forced me to learn pretty quick how to properly control such a car in the snow. Once I figured it out I found myself preferring the mustang to the taurus in almost every situation. My 19 GT is easy mode, in comparison to both, and even more so with the snow tires I have on it.

My driving style and experience has led me to prefer a RWD car to a FWD so excuse me when I say I don't give two sh*** about your internet research. The other poster, that quoted you, doesn't say something much different in regards to what they prefer either.

 

[ice445]

Talking abut driving these things around on snow and ice, using 'studs' and winter tires makes me cringe. Like when someone talks about mounting a tow hitch or bike rack.

Think it's past time for a 2nd vehicle for the OP, these cars are not practical/safe in those kinds of conditions.

Lol, I don't do it but come on now. These cars are mass produced, who cares if someone wants to fully enjoy theirs and "abuse" it. If you're a competent driver, modern rubber makes winter conditions easy for any car.

 

[DemonGT]

Studs are illegal in my state.

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