Handling

[Hack]

Also I found the WRX to waaaayy outhandle the Miata. Kind of what put me on this mission. The Mustang only weighs 350-400 pounds more than the WRX. With IRS and all I feel I can get close enough.

Hard to believe a WRX outhandles a Miata or a Mustang, unless it's snowing. I guess I've only ridden in modified Miatas and never one that was completely stock. But the WRX being AWD is just so high off the ground, I never thought of it as a good handling car. Whenever I've been on track with WRXs, whatever Mustang I've been in totally walks by them with no issues whatsoever. And they really hold me up in the corners.

I guess the stock PP1 suspension is pretty soft and it does allow the car's body to move around a lot. That can be unnerving. For handling and street driving I love my car with the FP track handling kit on it. Yes it lowers the car, but there's no issue with bottoming out anywhere. It's slightly firm for a daily driver, but not bad at all. Definitely softer than my Fiesta ST stock suspension.

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[Lads1719]

Definitely start with just a few items and add more as you learn what's needed. You can also go with coil-overs later and just use spacers if you don't want to lower it too much.

I would recommend spacers as well, 25mm all around will give you a firmer grip like the PP2’s, and look a whole lot better as well. For 200 bucks I think it’s the most bang for your buck mod for a PP1 car.

 

[Ewheels]

I would recommend spacers as well, 25mm all around will give you a firmer grip like the PP2’s, and look a whole lot better as well. For 200 bucks I think it’s the most bang for your buck mod for a PP1 car.

Mmmm, that's not really accurate.
This will widen the overall contact with the road (good thing) but the tire width remains the same and tire compound remains the same. Not going to feel like a PP2 (which has 305 Cup 2's) at all.
Sorry for nit picking but the $200 isn't accurate either. The spacers may cost that much but in order to run 25mm spacers, you need extended studs as well. So call it $500 total

 

[Lads1719]

Mmmm, that's not really accurate.
This will widen the overall contact with the road (good thing) but the tire width remains the same and tire compound remains the same. Not going to feel like a PP2 (which has 305 Cup 2's) at all.
Sorry for nit picking but the $200 isn't accurate either. The spacers may cost that much but in order to run 25mm spacers, you need extended studs as well. So call it $500 total

OK I just did them. Last week. No studs needed. 200 at steeda for 4. I bet he can even get s new customer discount too.

And as for the tires… Quoting The Big Lebowski. That’s just, like, your, opinion, mannn. Me personally, I believe, my car that has spacers with no studs on it feels better than before. So the OP can take that for what it’s worth.

Did you have anything positive to contribute to his post or just here to nit pick everybody else’s opinion?

 

[shogun32]

No studs needed. 200 at steeda for 4

right, you're talking bolt-on spacers. "We" don't consider that an acceptable solution, only slip-on. OP will want to hit up OP Mustang for a set and extended studs. Or just buy the FP front wheel hubs with the studs already installed.

 

[TeeLew]

Lads, in case this needs to be said, listen to Ewheels on this one.

 

[Lads1719]

Lads, in case this needs to be said, listen to Ewheels on this one.

I never disagreed with anyone about anything. My apologies for voicing my opinion to the OP. If I ever posted a question on a subject like that I would welcome all opinions from anyone. What I choose to do with said advice is my own decision.

Thanks for that tho. I’ll keep my ears out.

 

[Roadway 5.0]

If you don't want to lower the car, I think the best route you can do is sway bars, wider tires (square will give you the best turn-in), some additional front camber, and possibly the Ford Track shocks.

If you just want a canyon carver, I don't think you need to get into bracing and bushings.

Agreed, wide square tires, swaybars and good shocks.

^^^ + 1

I run a street setup on my PP1, be it slightly lowered with FRPP Street Springs. Adjustable swaybars, wider tires, and Bilsteins made a huge favorable impact.

 

[Doug T]

Interesting some of you mention shocks. The floaty boaty sensation I get feels like it needs shocks, mainly in the rear. But my brain tells me they're brand new. Could it be they are "That bad" new? I also notice many who claim the cradle locks and bushing upgrade also have springs/ shocks and sways installed. So, yeah the bushings and whatnot may have helped, but not really apples to apples. For shock recommendations, are the FP shocks a good match for stock spring? Thanks again, I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Interesting some of you mention shocks. The floaty boaty sensation I get feels like it needs shocks, mainly in the rear. But my brain tells me they're brand new. Could it be they are "That bad" new? I also notice many who claim the cradle locks and bushing upgrade also have springs/ shocks and sways installed. So, yeah the bushings and whatnot may have helped, but not really apples to apples. For shock recommendations, are the FP shocks a good match for stock spring? Thanks again, I appreciate the feedback.

Ford's production shock/strut tuning has not been where it needs to be for good handling going back at least as far as the S197.

Better damping is a good thing even for stock springs, especially given that your own observations run to "floaty-boaty" (code for "under-damped"). I even tracked my S197 on its OE springs (softer than your S550'ss, even) with better shocks and it worked better than you'd expect.


Norm

 

[Doug T]

So I'm poking around underneath the rear and I find this square piece of metal hanging off the passenger side rear subframe mount. Part # JR3W-4A263-EA. about 4"x5". It's away from the bushing about an inch and I can move it around with ease by hand. Ford calls it a damper but it's useless! What gives? Thanks Norm, I think better dampers may indeed be the first order of business.

 

[Norm Peterson]

I would recommend spacers as well, 25mm all around will give you a firmer grip like the PP2’s, and look a whole lot better as well. For 200 bucks I think it’s the most bang for your buck mod for a PP1 car.

Be careful. Having a wider track is only part of what's going on.

Yeah, you'd get slightly less lateral load transfer in any given corner (about 3%).

But you end up giving some of that back because you've made the overall suspension motion ratio slightly softer (slightly lower wheel rates, meaning slightly more roll).


And as mentioned, tire grip is mostly about the tires anyway.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

While the pp1 may be a "Mild" upgrade, I sure am liken' those big Brembo's and that Torsen 3.73. I like the idea of attaching the back to the car. So go all in you say? Is there a preferred method to take? I read about shearing bolts and/or drilling bushings which I'm not afraid to do. However, if the reward isn't worth the time and effort......

The PP1 package isn't all bad or particularly lacking (other than the dampers).

For handling, don't bother with replacing differential mounting bolts. Hard launches and harsh shifting are drag-race techniques and are best left for that. Handling is all about being smooth.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Also I found the WRX to waaaayy outhandle the Miata. Kind of what put me on this mission. The Mustang only weighs 350-400 pounds more than the WRX. With IRS and all I feel I can get close enough.

I'm going to guess that Miatas may be a little too twitchy or oversteerish for you.

The much heavier WRX (don't know what WRX years you've driven) is going to offer handling that's much more 'deliberate', even before considering the AWD effects. Closer to a Mustang, although they'd still drive a bit differently ("heavier").


Norm

 

[NightmareMoon]

If you want to carve corners, tires are number one for straight up grip at the road. Nothing beats great tires.

Shocks are number two for controlling body motion. Also rear shocks are about as easy of an install as you can get. Fronts take work, but you want both.

Then sways to limit roll and fine tune handling balance. Aftermarket sways are pretty stiff to begin with so try keeping them on a softer setting. Too stiff and you’ll skip over bumps instead of sticking to them.

Then (later) springs (specifically springs which don’t lower the car more than about 3/4”) can add response in fast transitions beyond what the shocks and sways are doing, but springs won’t add grip and you may need to correct the geometry change you get with lowering springs to maximize them and lowering it too much is detrimental to handling and daily drivability.

Yea track width from spacers and/or lowering helps as if the car was a lower flatter car, but the stock geometry at the stock height works just fine for normal amounts of body roll so its not a big issue. The stock PP1 springs are amazing for ride comfort and swallowing up bumps and imperfections when bombing back roads. The only complaint I had about stock springs (with upgraded shocks and sways) was very tight transitions, the type you almost never see on public roads.

Last would be bushings and upgraded mounts or track width and tire width changes. These things dont help much at all. They can improve a bit here or there in narrow situations and may be part of a complete package but if you’re on a budget, don’t waste that budget here first.

My car, which routinely wins the local CAM and regional CAMC autocross class has no rear bracing upgrades at all (but yes, 4 aftermarket bearings in the rear suspension). Its just not a big problem unless you’re running cheap tires or trying to lay burnout stripes on wet roads and are getting a lot of wheel hop in 1st gear.. powersliding “feel” improved when I added stiff lower rear control arm bearings and FRPP toe bearings, but lap times and autox performance didn’t change at all, because if you’re powersliding that much you’re already slow.

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