Per Ford (officially) the 2011-2019 F150/Mustang 5.0 “Typewriter Tick” is a normal characteristic

[Condor1970]

I think pulling the ignition coil plug is part of Ford's normal diagnostic testing. What does the Ford diagnostic procedure say it could be based on what the observed resulting noises are when the ignition coil is disabled?

So did this guy get his HLAs replaced if that was the conclusion ... and if so what was the outcome of replacing them? Or did Ford just say "hey, it's normal" and send him on his way after charging him for a diagnosis?

There was nothing wrong with the HLA's. That's why it's been so frustrating. Dealers have rebuilt these engines with all new rockers and HLA's for all cylinders, and the tick is still there. The only thing that could cause an HLA to to tick like that, while still being in normal working condition, is a lack of oil pressure. That's pretty much the only other possibility I know of.

Keep in mind, the very slight intermittent tick from an HLA with just slightly less oil pressure than needed, is nothing like an actual failed HLA. When an HLA completely fails, and does not inflate at all, the noise is really bad. However, if it is inflated, but with oil pressure a little low to maintain tight forceful contact, it may open just a thousandths of an inch to give that tiny little tick that otherwise wouldn't be there.

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[GT Pony]

Well, the BBQ tick is definitely something mechanical that is affected by the level of lubrication friction - that's why it goes away instantly as an oil friction modifier is added. But IMO it's not HLAs just because the ticking clearly not emanating from right underneath the valve covers, which is where it would be heard the loudest if it was ticking from the valve train. Also, I think if it was a lazy HLA the tick frequency would be more constant instead of random like it is.

Watching some YouTube videos tonight, some guys were saying they could hear the ticking right after a cold start, and others say it started ticking after it warmed up some. In the former case, the oil pressure would have been pretty high right after a cold start.

This guy used the RISLONE concentrated additive (500 ml bottle), which is about 1/3 the cost of Ceratec ($8 vs $24 on Amazon) and said it made his ticking go away. Might not even need a whole bottle - would have to experiment. Don't know what RISLONE looks like visually vs Ceratec. If you watch a few of his other videos, he mentions the ticking started right after a cold start after the first oil change.

 

[Vlad Soare]

What baffles me is how Ceratec, or any other friction modifier for that matter, can have such an instantaneous effect. People say they just poured it into the engine while it was running and ticking, and the tick stopped right there and then.
I would think that it would take a lot of time for it to mix evenly with nine quarts of oil, then to reach into each and every nook and cranny.
How can it work so instantly? How can it change the lubricity of such a high quantity of oil in the blink of an eye?

 

[Condor1970]

Well, the BBQ tick is definitely something mechanical that is affected by the level of lubrication friction - that's why it goes away instantly as an oil friction modifier is added. But IMO it's not HLAs just because the ticking clearly not emanating from right underneath the valve covers, which is where it would be heard the loudest if it was ticking from the valve train. Also, I think if it was a lazy HLA the tick frequency would be more constant instead of random like it is.

Watching some YouTube videos tonight, some guys were saying they could hear the ticking right after a cold start, and others say it started ticking after it warmed up some. In the former case, the oil pressure would have been pretty high right after a cold start.

This guy used the RISLONE concentrated additive (500 ml bottle), which is about 1/3 the cost of Ceratec ($8 vs $24 on Amazon) and said it made his ticking go away. Might not even need a whole bottle - would have to experiment. Don't know what RISLONE looks like visually vs Ceratec. If you watch a few of his other videos, he mentions the ticking started right after a cold start after the first oil change.

I've seen this too. Here's my thoughts on this. Rislone is specifically a cleaner to free up the valve train, and the new version has a tungsten nano-sphere friction modifier. Both versions work, which tells me that when it is used as a cleanser, it may be cleaning and freeing up valve train components well enough to operate more freely.
I have a sneaky suspicion that if the HLA that is on the edge of proper operation suddenly gets a does of cleaner, it frees up enough to fully inflate. You have to remember the passage way into the HLA's are very small, and their fit is very tight.
After using Rislone, the effect seems to help for a while even after their next oil change. Eventually, deposits will build up to a point where it may get sluggish again.

 

[accel]

... any ... friction modifier for that matter, can have such an instantaneous effect.

No.

 

[GT 550]

If it almost always happens after the first oil change, and Ceratec usually fixes it, doesn't that suggest there has to be something other than straight oil in the factory fill?

 

[GT Pony]

I've seen this too. Here's my thoughts on this. Rislone is specifically a cleaner to free up the valve train, and the new version has a tungsten nano-sphere friction modifier. Both versions work, which tells me that when it is used as a cleanser, it may be cleaning and freeing up valve train components well enough to operate more freely.
I have a sneaky suspicion that if the HLA that is on the edge of proper operation suddenly gets a does of cleaner, it frees up enough to fully inflate. You have to remember the passage way into the HLA's are very small, and their fit is very tight.
After using Rislone, the effect seems to help for a while even after their next oil change. Eventually, deposits will build up to a point where it may get sluggish again.

I just can't believe that HLAs are getting enough "deposits" on these cars that have very short oil change intervals. Lots of guys got the first oil change at 1000 to 2000 miles, and then the BBQ suddenly shows up. How could there be deposits in that short amount of time. Besides, why would the ticking suddenly appear right after an oil change it is was indeed "deposits" causing HLAs to not operate correctly? If it was deposits, the HLAs should have been causing ticking even before the oil change. Where is that guy here who didn't change his oil for 50,000 miles ... wonder if he had the BBQ tick - LoL.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/5-0-50k-miles-overdue-for-oil-change.154635/

Since the BBQ tick can show up right after an oil change (which can change the friction level between moving parts by stripping the anti-friction layer on parts from the oil just ran), and disappear just as fast with an oil friction modifier, then it's certainly is something that is very sensitive to the friction going on.

 

[GT Pony]

If it almost always happens after the first oil change, and Ceratec usually fixes it, doesn't that suggest there has to be something other than straight oil in the factory fill?

That's been a theory too. I just listened to a Blackstone pod-cast and they mentioned that oil additives can't be detected in the oil analysis methods they use.

 

[Condor1970]

That's been a theory too. I just listened to a Blackstone pod-cast and they mentioned that oil additives can't be detected in the oil analysis methods they use.

The other theory I've heard of, is the possibility that timing chain tensioners at idle aren't holding the chain very well, and the chain flops around a little tapping the guide, or possibly even tapping the cover. As RPM goes up, oil pressure goes up, and the chain tension gets more lubrication to where it stays in place properly. Not sure if that's a real problem though, other than the possibility of premature guide wear. Whatever this noise is, it has become pretty clear to me that it is definitely pressure related. If it was the tensioner, the Ceratec could be allowing for increased lubrication to provide easier inflation, or possibly the increased lubricity and cushioning on the chain itself quiets down the impact with the guide. Who knows?

 

[GT 550]

That's been a theory too. I just listened to a Blackstone pod-cast and they mentioned that oil additives can't be detected in the oil analysis methods they use.

There goes that idea. The tick appears to correlate with the first change more than anything else.

Does Ceratec affect cold viscosity? Would be good to know exactly what Ceratec does.

If it's cold start oil pressure related maybe a single fill of 20W and cold start would give some clues although there's risk of a false positive. Not sure if the tick is worse in winter or summer.

Wondering also if any of the tuner software can access the pressure control valve or if - depending on whether the valve is normally open or normally closed - it can be disconnected.

 

[GT Pony]

Here's the Blackstone pod cast about additives. Around the 9 minute mark they talk about trying to determine if and what additive might have been used.

 

[GT Pony]

Does Ceratec affect cold viscosity? Would be good to know exactly what Ceratec does.

I doubt it changes the oil viscosity much at all considering the mix ratio is very small. Most guys here only have to use 300 ml in 8 or 10 qts of oil, so that's only a ratio of ~3% Ceratec and 97% oil.

If it's cold start oil pressure related maybe a single fill of 20W and cold start would give some clues although there's risk of a false positive. Not sure if the tick is worse in winter or summer.

I think the BBQ tick is more apt to show up more as the oil warms up and thins out. Ford's SSM also mentions the ticking is most noticeable with engine temperature above 150 F. See the SSM in post #1 of this thread.

Wondering also if any of the tuner software can access the pressure control valve or if - depending on whether the valve is normally open or normally closed - it can be disconnected.

If so, that would be a good test. If someone could get the tick to come and go with a command of the variable output oil pump, then that would be useful data.

 

[Dave2013M3]

Hey guys, I just added 1 bottle of LiquiMoly Ceratec to the engine and the tick is gone. I also want to add the engine is so much more quiet even then before I got the tick after my 2nd oil change. As I didn't get the tick my first oil change.

I wish I only added half a bottle and see if that was enough. That being said I am shocked how quiet the motor is now.

 

[Condor1970]

Hey guys, I just added 1 bottle of LiquiMoly Ceratec to the engine and the tick is gone. I also want to add the engine is so much more quiet even then before I got the tick after my 2nd oil change. As I didn't get the tick my first oil change.

I wish I only added half a bottle and see if that was enough. That being said I am shocked how quiet the motor is now.

To save money, I use a QSUD 5w-30, and Ceratec. I find QSUD to be just as good or better than Mobil 1 as far as protection and smooth running. It's also a little less expensive from Walmart.

When adding Ceratec, I start the car and drive around the block until the engine and oil temp is up to normal. Then at hot idle, I slowly pour Ceratec in while the engine is running. I add just enough until the tick stops...which for my car is about 100ml (1/3 bottle).

My total cost for oil changes every 5,000mi is roughly $55 with a Mobil 1 oil filter.

 

[Dave2013M3]

To save money, I use a QSUD 5w-30, and Ceratec. I find QSUD to be just as good or better than Mobil 1 as far as protection and smooth running. It's also a little less expensive from Walmart.

When adding Ceratec, I start the car and drive around the block until the engine and oil temp is up to normal. Then at hot idle, I slowly pour Ceratec in while the engine is running. I add just enough until the tick stops...which for my car is about 100ml (1/3 bottle).

My total cost for oil changes every 5,000mi is roughly $55 with a Mobil 1 oil filter.

Well I added the Ceratec to the Motorcraft 5W-20 semi blend the dealer just did. I read about the QSUD oil, got very good reviews. I wish I only added half a bottle. I will do that next oil change.

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