Per Ford (officially) the 2011-2019 F150/Mustang 5.0 “Typewriter Tick” is a normal characteristic

[GT Pony]

Indeed, it makes no sense.

I cannot imagine Ford keeping on replacing these parts year after year, with all the labour costs it entails, for 7 (?) years if there was no problem apart from obnoxious noise. Like, somebody at Ford finally noticed that hey, we're paying X hundred thousands (X millions?) each year to replace this stuff but we have no idea whether it's actually a problem or not. Why don't we now, after 7 years, instead assign engineer Bob to spend a month or two to on this issue to determine if there really is a problem here or not?

I don't think so. I'm betting the calculation was indeed that it's cheaper to only replace those that do end up breaking within the warranty period and let the rest fend for themselves.

Also provides a very simple reason for why they don't want to state what the cause is, and why they want to consider it "normal and no problem".

I'm betting Ford knows exactly what causes the BBQ tick, yet in their SSM they won't say what the cause is. To me, that says something, because if it's caused by excessive parts clearances, then technically you could make Ford replace short blocks that are out of spec. If the cause was something that wouldn't cause a warranty claim (like oil cavitation in the journal bearings), then why won't Ford say what the actual cause is?

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[Condor1970]

Lazy HLA's at hot idle, with oil pressure below 28psi.

Ceratec works, because it lubes tight HLA's to the point where they inflate more easily.

 

[SrBio]

Couldn’t resist a little fun with local service center. My wife brought our 18 F150 in for service. I picked her up in our 18 GT. After listening to the rattle-trap F150 I asked the service manager to step outside and have a listen to the silent running Mustang. “So you’re telling me the Mustang doesn’t sound normal?” Stone silence from him. I don’t understand the inconsistency with Gen 3.

 

[Dave2013M3]

Lazy HLA's at hot idle, with oil pressure below 28psi.

Ceratec works, because it lubes tight HLA's to the point where they inflate more easily.

HLA?

 

[Chola]

HLA?

HLA: Hydraulic Lash Adjuster

 

[GT Pony]

Lazy HLA's at hot idle, with oil pressure below 28psi.

Ceratec works, because it lubes tight HLA's to the point where they inflate more easily.

If it was lazy and noisy HLAs (causing cam lobe to follower noise), I'd think the ticking would be most noticeable in the heads and not down low like the BBQ tick is (ie, the BBQ tick is heard the loudest from underneath the car).

 

[Condor1970]

If it was lazy and noisy HLAs (causing cam lobe to follower noise), I'd think the ticking would be most noticeable in the heads and not down low like the BBQ tick is (ie, the BBQ tick is heard the loudest from underneath the car).

HLA oil drains directly down to the oil pan. That drain acts like a little sound tube. Since the oil pan is now plastic, it's even more noticeable in the 2018+.

#3 cylinder apparently has the most arduous path for oil to reach the HLA, so it sees the lowest psi when hot. Some say if they pull the #3 ignition coil while at idle, the ticking stops. That's because the lifters/valves aren't under as much pressure from ignition to make a louder impact, so the tick basically goes away. There's even a YouTube vid somewhere showing a guy pulling the ignition coil on #3 and the tick stops.

 

[GT Pony]

HLA oil drains directly down to the oil pan. That drain acts like a little sound tube. Since the oil pan is now plastic, it's even more noticeable in the 2018+.

#3 cylinder apparently has the most arduous path for oil to reach the HLA, so it sees the lowest psi when hot. Some say if they pull the #3 ignition coil while at idle, the ticking stops. That's because the lifters/valves aren't under as much pressure from ignition to make a louder impact, so the tick basically goes away. There's even a YouTube vid somewhere showing a guy pulling the ignition coil on #3 and the tick stops.

Don't know if I'd buy that theory without some solid evidence. IMO, if it was ticking rockers due to bad HLAs, there would still be more ticking noise on the top end where the sound is being generated. And besides, the BBQ tick has been around since 2011, and the composite oil pan didn't show up until 2018.

If true, then has anyone had all the HLAs replaced, or at least the ones found to be bad to see if the BBQ tick goes away? And if it was really HLAs, I'd surely think Ford would have a TSB saying so and say if the car is still under warranty, then bring it in and get it fixed.

 

[Condor1970]

Don't know if I'd buy that theory without some solid evidence. IMO, if it was ticking rockers due to bad HLAs, there would still be more ticking noise on the top end where the sound is being generated. And besides, the BBQ tick has been around since 2011, and the composite oil pan didn't show up until 2018.

If true, then has anyone had all the HLAs replaced, or at least the ones found to be bad to see if the BBQ tick goes away? And if it was really HLAs, I'd surely think Ford would have a TSB saying so and say if the car is still under warranty, then bring it in and get it fixed.

It's the best explanation after everything else has been beaten to death. The tick existed before, but not nearly as loud or frequent for 2 reasons.

1. The hot idle pressure was higher. The oil bypass on 2018+ drops oil pressure even further down to 12-15psi for fuel efficiency requirements. This contributes to making it tick more by under inflation of the HLA. The older 5.0's I believe had a hot idle pressure around 25psi, which is just where the ticking starts. So, it did happen before, but not nearly as frequent.

2. Addition of the plastic oil pan also makes it more noticeable.

The only way to eliminate the tick, is to increase idle oil pressure. I've thought about finding out how to reprogram this, or even add a small orifice of some type at the bypass solenoid to increase idle oil pressure back up to 25-30psi.

In reality, that tiny gap in the HLA at little to no load on the engine doesn't really hurt anything that I know of. It's just annoying.

Ceratec increases lubricity, to allow tight fitting HLA's to fully inflate, and also provide some cushion to dampen any noise from rocker impact. Krex, XL-17, and other additives seem to help as well.

 

[GT Pony]

It's the best explanation after everything else has been beaten to death. The tick existed before, but not nearly as loud or frequent for 2 reasons.

1. The hot idle pressure was higher. The oil bypass on 2018+ drops oil pressure even further down to 12-15psi for fuel efficiency requirements. This contributes to making it tick more by under inflation of the HLA. The older 5.0's I believe had a hot idle pressure around 25psi, which is just where the ticking starts. So, it did happen before, but not nearly as frequent.

2. Addition of the plastic oil pan also makes it more noticeable.

The only way to eliminate the tick, is to increase idle oil pressure. I've thought about finding out how to reprogram this, or even add a small orifice of some type at the bypass solenoid to increase idle oil pressure back up to 25-30psi.

In reality, that tiny gap in the HLA at little to no load on the engine doesn't really hurt anything that I know of. It's just annoying.

Ceratec increases lubricity, to allow tight fitting HLA's to fully inflate, and also provide some cushion to dampen any noise from rocker impact. Krex, XL-17, and other additives seem to help as well.

Lots of 1st and 2nd Gen Coyotes (without the new variable volume oil pump used in the 3rd gen) had some pretty bad BBQ ticking ... heard loud and clear, so not so sure about the theory.

But yeah, I know you've talked about trying to increase the idle pressure for awhile. And if that experiment clearly showed that making the idle oil pressure higher and lower made the BBQ tick come a go in unison, then that would be pretty good proof.

 

[Condor1970]

Lots of 1st and 2nd Gen Coyotes (without the new variable volume oil pump used in the 3rd gen) had some pretty bad BBQ ticking ... heard loud and clear, so not so sure about the theory.

But yeah, I know you've talked about trying to increase the idle pressure for awhile. And if that experiment clearly showed that making the idle oil pressure higher and lower made the BBQ tick come a go in unison, then that would be pretty good proof.

I've already figured out it's definitely oil pressure related. No matter what viscosity is used, it makes no notable difference. Some guys even switch to 5w-50 and sometimes gets even louder. Only an increase in lubricity by using an additive seems to have an effect.

The tick starts to appear like clockwork as the engine warms up and oil pressure drops below ~28psi. That's why it still showed up on occasion with the older models too, but not quite as frequent. When the engine is hot at 12psi idle, the tick will remain as RPM increases, even with oil pressure at 2,000RPM is still below 30psi. However, once RPM is high enough and the bypass shuts, pressure shoots to 80psi, and the tick vanishes instantly. This occurs at the same pressures, whether the oil is still somewhat cold/thicker or fully hot/thinner.

 

[Vlad Soare]

And if it was really HLAs, I'd surely think Ford would have a TSB saying so and say if the car is still under warranty, then bring it in and get it fixed.

Why lose money fixing it, when it's easier and cheaper to just pretend it's normal?

 

[GT Pony]

I've already figured out it's definitely oil pressure related. No matter what viscosity is used, it makes no notable difference. Some guys even switch to 5w-50 and sometimes gets even louder. Only an increase in lubricity by using an additive seems to have an effect.

The tick starts to appear like clockwork as the engine warms up and oil pressure drops below ~28psi. That's why it still showed up on occasion with the older models too, but not quite as frequent. When the engine is hot at 12psi idle, the tick will remain as RPM increases, even with oil pressure at 2,000RPM is still below 30psi. However, once RPM is high enough and the bypass shuts, pressure shoots to 80psi, and the tick vanishes instantly. This occurs at the same pressures, whether the oil is still somewhat cold/thicker or fully hot/thinner.

All areas in the oiling system can be effected by oil flow/oil pressure ... so what real proof is there that it's HLAs and not actually the crank or rod bearings making noise (cavitation, rod side slap, etc) ? It could be oil pressure related, but not necessarily HLAs, like said the BBQ tick seems to emanate more from the bottom end than top end.

Wonder if anyone has ran their ticking engine with the valve covers off to see if the ticking can be pin-pointed in the head area ?

Or I wonder if anyone with a 3rd Gen Coyote has put a plain old fashioned non-computer controlled positive displacement oil pump in and found out if just that change makes the tick go away ?

Other thing is, if HLAs are really "sticking" that much to where a slight change in oil lubricity instantly makes them "free up" and pump up correctly, then I'd consider the HLAs are defective and should be replaced under warranty - they aren't working correctly with the oil Ford specifies and require an oil additive to work properly. But yeah, I think Vlad Soare got it right in post 358.

If you do end up doing the oil pressure experiment, please post up the results - you might still find the smoking gun.

 

[Condor1970]

All areas in the oiling system can be effected by oil flow/oil pressure ... so what real proof is there that it's HLAs and not actually the crank or rod bearings making noise (cavitation, rod side slap, etc) ? It could be oil pressure related, but not necessarily HLAs, like said the BBQ tick seems to emanate more from the bottom end than top end.

Wonder if anyone has ran their ticking engine with the valve covers off to see if the ticking can be pin-pointed in the head area ?

Or I wonder if anyone with a 3rd Gen Coyote has put a plain old fashioned non-computer controlled positive displacement oil pump in and found out if just that change makes the tick go away ?

Other thing is, if HLAs are really "sticking" that much to where a slight change in oil lubricity instantly makes them "free up" and pump up correctly, then I'd consider the HLAs are defective and should be replaced under warranty - they aren't working correctly with the oil Ford specifies and require an oil additive to work properly. But yeah, I think Vlad Soare got it right in post 358.

If you do end up doing the oil pressure experiment, please post up the results - you might still find the smoking gun.

I wish I could find the video. There was a guy who thought it was piston slap at the beginning of this controversy, and pulled the #3 ignition coil plug while at idle, and the tick immediately stopped. They scoped the cylinder, and it was perfectly fine. They realized that sound couldn't possibly be piston slap or rod knock, as they both sound drastically different than the tick. The only possibility was they figured it may be lifter tick somehow. After watching it happen at very specific oil pressures, it seem logical to me that with the new engines having such low idle oil pressure, that the HLA on #3 due to its location, isn't getting fully inflated.

 

[GT Pony]

I wish I could find the video. There was a guy who thought it was piston slap at the beginning of this controversy, and pulled the #3 ignition coil plug while at idle, and the tick immediately stopped. They scoped the cylinder, and it was perfectly fine. They realized that sound couldn't possibly be piston slap or rod knock, as they both sound drastically different than the tick. The only possibility was they figured it may be lifter tick somehow. After watching it happen at very specific oil pressures, it seem logical to me that with the new engines having such low idle oil pressure, that the HLA on #3 due to its location, isn't getting fully inflated.

I think pulling the ignition coil plug is part of Ford's normal diagnostic testing. What does the Ford diagnostic procedure say it could be based on what the observed resulting noises are when the ignition coil is disabled?

So did this guy get his HLAs replaced if that was the conclusion ... and if so what was the outcome of replacing them? Or did Ford just say "hey, it's normal" and send him on his way after charging him for a diagnosis?

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