2020 GT500 hot lap time from Laguna Seca [Motortrend]

[Angrey]

Great video. Will likely become a classic.

However, Lieberman's quote ("The GT500 beats up the GT350, takes its lunch money, and buys more gas.") is like bragging about beating up your little brother.

Hopefully the journalists will continue to find more appropriate & useful comparisons.

Yeah, describing one car that's $50k+ more than the other, I'm not sure this is bragging, in fact it speaks to the poor value of the 500 TP. Did Ford do a great job? Sure, is it at a price point that makes it a great value? No. Offer the car for mid 80's and that calculus changes, but for $105k+ I would expect it to not just take the R's lunch money, but it's girlfriend, future income and force all it's children to work for it for free.

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[Tomster]

I would expect it to not just take the R's lunch money, but it's girlfriend, future income and force all it's children to work for it for free.

I would say it does that too. If MT said something like that, I dont think it would go over well with people being so sensitive these days.

I drove the two of them back to back at the track. The 350R doesn't belong in the same conversation.

When you compare what the car does, to cars that are about 3X more, i would say its a performance value.

 

[Snakecollector]

Yeah, describing one car that's $50k+ more than the other, I'm not sure this is bragging, in fact it speaks to the poor value of the 500 TP. Did Ford do a great job? Sure, is it at a price point that makes it a great value? No. Offer the car for mid 80's and that calculus changes, but for $105k+ I would expect it to not just take the R's lunch money, but it's girlfriend, future income and force all it's children to work for it for free.

Poor value? L-O-L. The car is less than 1 second slower than an Huracan Evo (starting at $209k) and 1.5 seconds behind an F8 Tributo (starting at $280k).

Poor value? Maybe to a typical Mustang GT customer. Anybody else? It's a freakin performance bargain.

 

[Tomster]

Poor value? L-O-L. The car is less than 1 second slower than an Huracan Evo (starting at $209k) and 1.5 seconds behind an F8 Tributo (starting at $280k).

Poor value? Maybe to a typical Mustang GT customer. Anybody else? It's a freakin performance bargain.

Everybody knows that a mustang GT is almost the same as a CFTP. I mean really, a CFTP is nothing but a GT with a supercharger........



















LOL

 

[Snakecollector]

Everybody knows that a mustang GT is almost the same as a CFTP. I mean really, a CFTP is nothing but a GT with a supercharger........



















LOL

I just can't with these people... lol.

 

[Tomster]

I just can't with these people... lol.

I know, right?

 

[Rinzler]

Just as a quick update, the C8 Z51 ran a 1:37.83 which is 4 seconds slower than the GT500 and 1 sec slower than the base GT350. So there's that...

 

[dom418]

While one would think that a more expensive the vehicle should outperform the less expensive vehicle at the track, this is not always the case. For example the 500 is right there with GT3 RS which costs twice the amount of the 500.

How do you think those owners feel? The fit and finish etc and build quality of the Porsche are world class. It is the better car but at what price?

On flip side, the fully loaded 500 is something like $25,000 more than a fully optioned 2020 R. It should well outperform the R.

Based on my example above though, less expensive doesn’t automatically equate to losing at the track.

The Rs were/are doing the same thing vs their more expensive counterparts

 

[wbrownie]

Just as a quick update, the C8 Z51 ran a 1:37.83 which is 4 seconds slower than the GT500 and 1 sec slower than the base GT350. So there's that...

To be fair, the 500 was on Cup 2s and the Vette on 4s'. 500 still faster but not 4 seconds if apples to apples...

 

[Tomster]

To be fair, the 500 was on Cup 2s and the Vette on 4s'. 500 still faster but not 4 seconds if apples to apples...

Is that the way it was delivered from the factory?, LOL

 

[Rinzler]

To be fair, the 500 was on Cup 2s and the Vette on 4s'. 500 still faster but not 4 seconds if apples to apples...

Blame GM for that. Also, tire is not going to make up 4 seconds when performing at this level. For context, the GT350, that is 1 second faster is on Michelin PS4S too. So there's that.

I'm just tired of the C8 Z51 vs GT500 comparisons. No doubt the Z06 and ZR1 will likely be faster, but comparing a non-performance tier Corvette to a GT500 needs to stop. It's silly.

 

[FogcitySF]

At $105k, the GT500 CFTP is a performance bargain! Keep in mind that a fully loaded M3/M4 competition/CS is pushing $90k-100k and the GT500 (even non CFTP) is in a different league. Kudos to Ford for being able to make cars such as the 350 and the 500 that handle just as well as the best from Europe and have many characteristics that cannot be replicated by anything currently sold out of Europe. I hope the performance orientation by the US automakers continues!

 

[Caballus]

Yeah, describing one car that's $50k+ more than the other, I'm not sure this is bragging, in fact it speaks to the poor value of the 500 TP. Did Ford do a great job? Sure, is it at a price point that makes it a great value? No. Offer the car for mid 80's and that calculus changes, but for $105k+ I would expect it to not just take the R's lunch money, but it's girlfriend, future income and force all it's children to work for it for free.

That wasn't my point. Regardless to cost, the GT500 was engineered, built and marketed to outperform the GT350. So, for the GT500 not to outperform the GT350 would be a failure on Ford/FP's part.

The point, like several others have made now, is that comparisons to non-Ford marques are more useful (US: Camaro, Corvette; EUR: M, AMG, RS; Supercars in general). In some cases the GT500 will hold its own, in others it will be outperformed, in still others the cars will be obvious mismatches. Either way, objective comparisons will be interesting. Will be on the lookout during Spring/Summer 2021.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a29392932/lightning-lap-2019/

 

[Caballus]

For context, the GT350, that is 1 second faster is on Michelin PS4S too. So there's that.

Why was the GT350 on PS4S? Not doubting. Just curious.

 

[Angrey]

That wasn't my point. Regardless to cost, the GT500 was engineered, built and marketed to out perform the GFT350. So, for the GT500 not to outperform the GT350 would be a failure on Ford/FP's part.

The point, like several others have made now, is that comparisons to non-Ford marques are more useful (US: Camaro, Corvette; EUR: M, AMG, RS; Supercars in general). In some cases the GT500 will hold its own, in others it will be outperformed, in still others the cars will be obvious mismatches. Either way, objective comparisons will be interesting. Will be on the lookout during Spring/Summer 2021.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a29392932/lightning-lap-2019/

I got your point. MY point is that it's not enough to just beat the 350. There's lots of cars that do that, if you gave me $50k and a 350R and said "go out and demolish it's lap times" I wouldn't struggle to do so in the slightest. My point is that yes, the car is better than the R. Is it $50k better? My personal opinion is no. The 500, like so many other cars being fielded today is a badass machine, but it's low value. Meaning yes, you get performance, but you pay dearly for it.

Compare and contrast that with say a C8. Does it beat the 500? No, but it also costs significantly less. Value = performance/$. Ford is venturing into the realm where people have more money than sense, or frankly just don't care. Is a 720S a badass machine? Absolutely. Is it worth a quarter million? Not to me.

I think if Ford made enough of them to keep dealers from gouging the **** out of their loyal customers, and instead of $15k carbon fiber wheels, they went with lightweight forged wheels that are a couple lbs heavier (and saved $10k in the process), all the sudden a $105k car, starts to cost around $80k or so and THAT would be a badass value.

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