ATB042

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The historic data that C&D has is fun to look at from year to year, decade to decade. But as any racer knows, the only way you will be able to compare lap times is not just on the same day (tracks change, air changes) but within the same hour, on the 'same' tires with the same heat cycles (preferably 1-5) and with the same driver.





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garagelogic

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Would have been nice if just for once, Ford did the same and shared the results with a '20 GT500.

Why would that be nice? It would be just another number to be argued endlessly on the internet to make certain people feel justified in their choice of a particular make/model.

Personally, I just wish people would buy a car for whatever reason it spoke to them without resorting to trying to qualify which one is the better/faster/more capable vehicle.
 

Epiphany

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Additional data points are alway a good thing. I support the free flow of as much information as possible when it comes to performance be it tire, engine, car....you name it.

People will always buy based on how a car "spoke to them." And the reason many of us here bought what we did was because of the knowledge and confidence we had in the numbers. You feel differently about that - good for you.
 
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ZRacerLE

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yes, it beat it on the roadcourse, it beats it on the dragstrip, it beats it on public roads.. it beats it in uniqueness.. how many beatings does a car have to take before the argument is dead?
If your comparing a ZL1 1LE to a base GT500, youd be wrong, compare it to the CFTP, conversely, compare the BASE ZL1 Vs base GT500.. the GT500 kills it even worse. hell, the BASE GT500 kills the 1LE..
You working on bringing your laptimes down yet?
 

Idaho2018GTPremium

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yes, it beat it on the roadcourse, it beats it on the dragstrip, it beats it on public roads.. it beats it in uniqueness.. how many beatings does a car have to take before the argument is dead?
If your comparing a ZL1 1LE to a base GT500, youd be wrong, compare it to the CFTP, conversely, compare the BASE ZL1 Vs base GT500.. the GT500 kills it even worse. hell, the BASE GT500 kills the 1LE..
As it should beat the ZL1 and ZLE, considering the GT500 and GT500 CFTP are more expensive and were released 2-3 years after the ZL1 and ZLE so Billy and team were able to benchmark the competition (being presumably ZL1, ZLE, C7 Z06, and some 911 trims if I had to guess).

I am very specific when referring to the trims (ZL1 or ZLE) and am aware on which trims to compare: ZL1 vs. GT500 and ZLE vs GT500 CFTP. And no, the base GT500 does NOT "kill" a ZLE on a track. Yes, it beats one in a straight line.

I can tell it's unlikely you've driven a ZL1 because otherwise you'd realize what a performance value it is. BillyJ even said the ZL1 is awesome on the track. He helped develop the GT500, so if you can't take his word for it, I don't know what to tell you. I bought a ZL1 because the Chevy dealer let me test drive one and confirm it is awesome and worth the price. The local Ford dealer I bought my Mustang from wouldn't let me test drive the base GT500 (that they had a massive ADM on). If they had, and IF they got rid of the ADM, I might be in a GT500 instead of waiting on my ZL1 to arrive later this month (or early next month). Because I know it is awesome without driving, however, I wasn't willing to risk $80k on that assumption, when for a lot less I could get a ZL1 that I drove and confirmed it is awesome.

The bottom line is, they are both awesome performance values and you can't seem to see that through your Ford colored glasses.
 
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V00D00

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You working on bringing your laptimes down yet?
of course, i have a nother track day in a week from now
As it should beat the ZL1 and ZLE, considering the GT500 and GT500 CFTP are more expensive and were released 2-3 years after the ZL1 and ZLE so Billy and team were able to benchmark the competition (being presumably ZL1, ZLE, C7 Z06, and some 911 trims if I had to guess).

I am very specific when referring to the trims (ZL1 or ZLE) and am aware on which trims to compare: ZL1 vs. GT500 and ZLE vs GT500 CFTP. And no, the base GT500 does NOT "kill" a ZLE on a track. Yes, it beats one in a straight line.

I can tell it's unlikely you've driven a ZL1 because otherwise you'd realize what a performance value it is. BillyJ even said the ZL1 is awesome on the track. He helped develop the GT500, so if you can't take his word for it, I don't know what to tell you. I bought a ZL1 because the Chevy dealer let me test drive one and confirm it is awesome and worth the price. The local Ford dealer I bought my Mustang from wouldn't let me test drive the base GT500 (that they had a massive ADM on). If they had, and IF they got rid of the ADM, I might be in a GT500 instead of waiting on my ZL1 to arrive later this month (or early next month). Because I know it is awesome without driving, however, I wasn't willing to risk $80k on that assumption, when for a lot less I could get a ZL1 that I drove and confirmed it is awesome.

The bottom line is, they are both awesome performance values and you can't seem to see that through your Ford colored glasses.
thats a lot of words to attempt justify being wrong. 1- this is my first Mustang, not sure why you think being realistic and unbiased is being "Ford" anything

no, never driven a camaro, nothing about it worth even looking at to me. i find it boring to look at, it offers nothing i cant find in a better car done to a better execution.

I 100% care about street manners, you seem to keep forgetting this a crucial aspect of a car.

Your use of the term "value" holds no weight. As always you get what you pay for,. a better "value" that is slower on a track-aight or twisted, uncomfortable on the street, horrible sight lines, no connection or uniqueness, is still a bad purchase.

Let me help you, help me, help you..
Find me a car new or used, 2007 and up, under $140k. That is boosted or can make 4 digit hp boosted stock motor, fits 4, with a DCT

Here a tip, GM aint on the list
 
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ZRacerLE

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of course, i have a nother track day in a week from now


thats a lot of words to attempt justify being wrong. 1- this is my first Mustang, not sure why you think being realistic and unbiased is being "Ford" anything

no, never driven a camaro, nothing about it worth even looking at to me. i find it boring to look at, it offers nothing i cant find in a better car done to a better execution.

I 100% care about street manners, you seem to keep forgetting this a crucial aspect of a car.

Your use of the term "value" holds no weight. As always you get what you pay for,. a better "value" that is slower on a track-aight or twisted, uncomfortable on the street, horrible sight lines, no connection or uniqueness, is still a bad purchase.

Let me help you, help me, help you..
Find me a car new or used, 2007 and up, under $140k. That is boosted or can make 4 digit hp boosted stock motor, fits 4, with a DCT

Here a tip, GM aint on the list
Sweet man. Love the idea of you tamming that beast!
 

BillyJRacing

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The historic data that C&D has is fun to look at from year to year, decade to decade. But as any racer knows, the only way you will be able to compare lap times is not just on the same day (tracks change, air changes) but within the same hour, on the 'same' tires with the same heat cycles (preferably 1-5) and with the same driver.
Lap 1 on a new set of tires is often over 0.5 seconds faster than lap 2.

That 3,000lb McLaren in my YouTube Channel video slowed down by 3 seconds over the day, from new tires in the am to the heat of the day and older tires in the afternoon. So 5 heat cycle old tires don't tell you much, neither do pretty much all magazine tests.

0.02
 

Idaho2018GTPremium

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thats a lot of words to attempt justify being wrong. 1- this is my first Mustang, not sure why you think being realistic and unbiased is being "Ford" anything

no, never driven a camaro, nothing about it worth even looking at to me. i find it boring to look at, it offers nothing i cant find in a better car done to a better execution.

I 100% care about street manners, you seem to keep forgetting this a crucial aspect of a car.

Your use of the term "value" holds no weight. As always you get what you pay for,. a better "value" that is slower on a track-aight or twisted, uncomfortable on the street, horrible sight lines, no connection or uniqueness, is still a bad purchase.

Let me help you, help me, help you..
Find me a car new or used, 2007 and up, under $140k. That is boosted or can make 4 digit hp boosted stock motor, fits 4, with a DCT

Here a tip, GM aint on the list
I was explaining the process, not justifying.

Value: There is not a car on sale at the same price as a ZL1 that can match it in overall performance (not even a C8 overall, except from a dig, and Z51 package actually makes it more expensive than an A10 ZL1). Looks are subjective, but a ZL1 is far from a boring looking car. You aren't fond of the styling, which is fine -- to each their own. I think both the ZL1 and GT500 look awesome. That said, for the performance, the GT500 is ALSO a good value.

The ZL1 is a street monster and rides comfortably, which you wouldn't know since you haven't driven one. Properly adjusted mirrors eliminate most visibility issues, which are overblown IMO.
 

DaveB

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I was explaining the process, not justifying.

Value: There is not a car on sale at the same price as a ZL1 that can match it in overall performance (not even a C8 overall, except from a dig, and Z51 package actually makes it more expensive than an A10 ZL1). Looks are subjective, but a ZL1 is far from a boring looking car. You aren't fond of the styling, which is fine -- to each their own. I think both the ZL1 and GT500 look awesome. That said, for the performance, the GT500 is ALSO a good value.

The ZL1 is a street monster and rides comfortably, which you wouldn't know since you haven't driven one. Properly adjusted mirrors eliminate most visibility issues, which are overblown IMO.
I have to agree about the mirrors. I heard all the complaints about visibility in the 5th gen. I never understood what the issue was. My mirrors were adjusted properly to cover my blind spots, plus I pay attention to what is going on around me. That said, after spending a month or so in my wife's mustang everyday, then getting back in my camaro was a huge shock. It was dark, seated samn near on the floor, and the windows were tiny! Of course after about 5 minutes or so it was back to normal. I got in a customers 5th gen the other day and as much as I loved my car, my 350 is just all around better. Now the 6th gen xanaro took all of those issues and made them way worse. Again, someone who dailies the car and sets everything up for themselves, the issues, im sure, will become unnoticeable as well.
 

V00D00

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I was explaining the process, not justifying.

Value: There is not a car on sale at the same price as a ZL1 that can match it in overall performance (not even a C8 overall, except from a dig, and Z51 package actually makes it more expensive than an A10 ZL1). Looks are subjective, but a ZL1 is far from a boring looking car. You aren't fond of the styling, which is fine -- to each their own. I think both the ZL1 and GT500 look awesome. That said, for the performance, the GT500 is ALSO a good value.

The ZL1 is a street monster and rides comfortably, which you wouldn't know since you haven't driven one. Properly adjusted mirrors eliminate most visibility issues, which are overblown IMO.

You just proved the case for the GT500 killing the Camaro. Thank you
 

Idaho2018GTPremium

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You just proved the case for the GT500 killing the Camaro. Thank you
:facepalm::crazy:🤪

I didn't prove anything about the GT500 "killing" the ZL1, except state that both are good performance values.
 
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Kingkong

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Can’t deny each have their own positives and negatives.

I have both ZLE and base GT500, and for damn sure the ZLE beats the mustang in the aggressive looks department. It is nimble, quick, PLANTED, gives you massive confidence in those turns. And I personally have no problems with visibility in the Camaro🤷‍♂️

I also have a Charger Hellcat, and I feel the GT500 does the straight line better than the hellcat and the ZLE and matched almost equally handling wise with the ZLE.

Alan
 

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