DaveB

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... and to address the hybrid name, we probably shouldn't use that term either because we might get literal hybrid muscle cars in the 7th or 8th gens, unless they jump straight to EV (BOOOOOO!!!!)

I've thrown out "super muscle car" here before, but didn't get any traction. Still looking for a good name...
Hyper-pony cars would be more correct





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DaveB

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Lol, 50% buyers remorse? Please quote your source and numbers for that. And like I said, you're delusional if you think your 4000lb+ pig is in the same universe as a mid engine super car which the C8Z will be.

What does aftermarket support prove exactly?? That the car leaves so much to be desired that the aftermarket has to come to the rescue to help fix the car's shortcomings. That's a compliment more than anything IMO.

They both have quality issue, guess you forgot about how shitty the voodoo is or how great the MT82 has been lol.

Move along fanboy
the voodoo is not shitty. Its actually a pretty good engine. I loved my 13 1LE and the LS engines. My 350 is a much better car. The new camaros weren't even on my list of choices to replace my 5th gen, actually the 350 was the only thing I would trade it for. The 6th gen looks terrible, other than the nose on the zl1, its not comfortable, its too dark inside because the windows are too small. The LT engine is too many steps in the wrong direction.
 

V00D00

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Lol, 50% buyers remorse? Please quote your source and numbers for that. And like I said, you're delusional if you think your 4000lb+ pig is in the same universe as a mid engine super car which the C8Z will be.

What does aftermarket support prove exactly?? That the car leaves so much to be desired that the aftermarket has to come to the rescue to help fix the car's shortcomings. That's a compliment more than anything IMO.

They both have quality issue, guess you forgot about how shitty the voodoo is or how great the MT82 has been lol.

Move along fanboy
#1 complain from 1LE owners ( sold due to being too aggressive for daily driving"
C8Z? here we go, took about 3 minutes for someone to bring up the "just wait" claim. It took a TT C8 to run what a stock GT500 does on the strip, if you think thats whats coming, youre nutz, if you think its gonna be more than a 1 lap hero w/o adding tons of cooling, adding weight, youre nutz.

Ill "just wait" for GM to respond.
what would you like to bet the c8z has MAJOR modifications to do what its supposed to do? frame reinforcements, 300# heavier and starting price exceding CFTP GT500 sticker? :)

aftermarket? who brought that up? the fact every 1lE owner MUST do aftermarket mods to be happy, shows what the better car is.
 

Idaho2018GTPremium

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The problem is that 100hp, doesnt allow it to match, it allows it to beat it, in every aspect, repeatedly
You're funny. It beat the ZLE by 4 tenths of a second (a driver's race) with +110 hp, DCT, Carbon Fiber wheels, CF drive shaft, +$18,000. In real life the price discrepancy is like $20-40k since you can get a ZLE for under msrp, and CFTPs are hard to find at msrp.

Look I get it - the CFTP beat the ZLE around VIR by 4 tenths and its quicker in a straight line. It took all of those large advantages mentioned above because Ford chose to make it more comfortable as a daily. Both manufacturers have chosen different routes to achieve pretty close to the same times around a track. The GT500 is awesome, no doubt. But for quite a bit less money, the ZL1 and ZLE are right there with the base GT500 and GT500 CFTP. And not for nothing, but the ZL1 can also run 10s (albeit high 10s) in stock form at a prepped drag strip.

So using your logic the ZL1's less performance oriented chassis/suspension had to have a 124-hp, and 221-tq, advantage to barely beat out the 350R correct?
We've had this conversation. The ZL1 beat a GT350R that had CF wheels, large CF wing, nearly 200 lbs lighter, and wider Cup 2 tires (vs. the narrower Goodyears on the M6 ZL1). We talked about how the ZL1 carried more g's in some brake zones and some turns than the R, despite the grip disadvantages listed above. The ZL1's advantage was power and chassis design, while the R had everything else (tires, aero, weight, etc.), yet came up short in the one thing it was made for - a track.
 

Tomster

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Yes it was only 0.4 seconds faster than the ZL11LE with amateurs driving, turning times second(S) slower than what the car is capable of.

The actual difference in abilities between the two is much larger than that.
Exactly. The whole dataset doesn't mean anything. I sure wish you could post what you did with the CFTP at VIR. I would respect that number and know it was really what the car can do.
 

Idaho2018GTPremium

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Yes it was only 0.4 seconds faster than the ZL11LE with amateurs driving, turning times second(S) slower than what the car is capable of.

The actual difference in abilities between the two is much larger than that.
I have no reason to doubt a professional's statement. With you driving both, how far apart are they really on VIR? The ZLE had the same handicap since it was driven by the same group of people; no doubt the ZLE would also see improved times from having someone like you or Randy Pobst drive the cars in lieu of magazine editors.

The one test I've seen w/ Randy driving both of them (via Throttle House on YT) same day, the GT500 was a second slower around Willow, but had "well-cooked" tires, according to Randy, so it wasn't a fully apples to apples comparison.

Randy also drove for Motortrend BDC and the M6 ZLE was 0.46 sec slower than this year's CFTP, but I realize those were different days (different years, in fact), so we can't compare directly considering the same car could be off more than that on different days, much less different years.

I'm coming across as some ZLE homer, but I am definitely not. I have a Mustang GT PP1 w/ A10 and a ZL1 (soon--it's built and in transit to me now), so I think I'm able to see some of these arguments from a less biased perspective than some on this forum since I like both of the cars a lot. I see the ZLE hanging pretty well with the more powerful and expensive, albeit more comfortable, GT500 CFTP. I also think the GT500 is a better looking car, overall (but the ZL1 is no slouch in the looks department, IMO!).
 

VRYALT3R3D

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There is way too much bench racing going on.
 

newmoon

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You're funny. It beat the ZLE by 4 tenths of a second (a driver's race) with +110 hp, DCT, Carbon Fiber wheels, CF drive shaft, +$18,000. In real life the price discrepancy is like $20-40k since you can get a ZLE for under msrp, and CFTPs are hard to find at msrp.

Look I get it - the CFTP beat the ZLE around VIR by 4 tenths and its quicker in a straight line. It took all of those large advantages mentioned above because Ford chose to make it more comfortable as a daily. Both manufacturers have chosen different routes to achieve pretty close to the same times around a track. The GT500 is awesome, no doubt. But for quite a bit less money, the ZL1 and ZLE are right there with the base GT500 and GT500 CFTP. And not for nothing, but the ZL1 can also run 10s (albeit high 10s) in stock form at a prepped drag strip.



We've had this conversation. The ZL1 beat a GT350R that had CF wheels, large CF wing, nearly 200 lbs lighter, and wider Cup 2 tires (vs. the narrower Goodyears on the M6 ZL1). We talked about how the ZL1 carried more g's in some brake zones and some turns than the R, despite the grip disadvantages listed above. The ZL1's advantage was power and chassis design, while the R had everything else (tires, aero, weight, etc.), yet came up short in the one thing it was made for - a track.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So in your 1st response you whine about the GT500 having a 110-hp advantage over the ZL1-1LE.
Then in the next statement you dismiss the much bigger hp/tq advantage that the ZL1 had over the R. Nice very Camaro6 like.
 

Epiphany

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I have no reason to doubt a professional's statement. With you driving both, how far apart are they really on VIR? The ZLE had the same handicap since it was driven by the same group of people; no doubt the ZLE would also see improved times from having someone like you or Randy Pobst drive the cars in lieu of magazine editors.

The one test I've seen w/ Randy driving both of them (via Throttle House on YT) same day, the GT500 was a second slower around Willow, but had "well-cooked" tires, according to Randy, so it wasn't a fully apples to apples comparison.

Randy also drove for Motortrend BDC and the M6 ZLE was 0.46 sec slower than this year's CFTP, but I realize those were different days (different years, in fact), so we can't compare directly considering the same car could be off more than that on different days, much less different years.

I'm coming across as some ZLE homer, but I am definitely not. I have a Mustang GT PP1 w/ A10 and a ZL1 (soon--it's built and in transit to me now), so I think I'm able to see some of these arguments from a less biased perspective than some on this forum since I like both of the cars a lot. I see the ZLE hanging pretty well with the more powerful and expensive, albeit more comfortable, GT500 CFTP. I also think the GT500 is a better looking car, overall (but the ZL1 is no slouch in the looks department, IMO!).
Well said.
 

BillyJRacing

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I have no reason to doubt a professional's statement. With you driving both, how far apart are they really on VIR? The ZLE had the same handicap since it was driven by the same group of people; no doubt the ZLE would also see improved times from having someone like you or Randy Pobst drive the cars in lieu of magazine editors.

The one test I've seen w/ Randy driving both of them (via Throttle House on YT) same day, the GT500 was a second slower around Willow, but had "well-cooked" tires, according to Randy, so it wasn't a fully apples to apples comparison.

Randy also drove for Motortrend BDC and the M6 ZLE was 0.46 sec slower than this year's CFTP, but I realize those were different days (different years, in fact), so we can't compare directly considering the same car could be off more than that on different days, much less different years.

I'm coming across as some ZLE homer, but I am definitely not. I have a Mustang GT PP1 w/ A10 and a ZL1 (soon--it's built and in transit to me now), so I think I'm able to see some of these arguments from a less biased perspective than some on this forum since I like both of the cars a lot. I see the ZLE hanging pretty well with the more powerful and expensive, albeit more comfortable, GT500 CFTP. I also think the GT500 is a better looking car, overall (but the ZL1 is no slouch in the looks department, IMO!).
Yes both the GT500CFTP & ZL11LE are second(S) faster when a pro is behind the wheel, but the gap between the 500 & LE is much larger than 0.4 seconds. I cannot disclose that confidential information, but if I get an opportunity to publicly drive them (maybe for my new YouTube Channel: "One Lap Billy")

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjHejXhm1Q600GKGGv-My7w

...Then this could easily be settled.

I'm proud to have worked on the GT500, it's a truly impressive car and the development of the car was quite special. But overall, I'm a car guy who appreciates cars objectively for what they are. Every car has strengths and weaknesses. There are things the Mustang does that are better than the Camaro, and there are things the Camaro does better than the Mustang. Just because the Camaro is slower doesn't make it a 'worse' or 'bad' car. It's just slower around a lap. Pointing out that objective fact, and pointing out the various magazine tests are complete crap, having variables that cause SECONDS of a lap difference and often being driven seconds slower than what these cars are capable of doesn't make me biased or a fan-boy, but rather having a lot more insight than relying on other people's testing. Because i've done better tests than they have and see how bad their test procedures are. Check out my "Intro" video on my channel for more insight on this.

The base ZL1 is also a great car, and they're awesome on track. You will likely enjoy your car. Now the cooling issues of the C7 Z06 make it outright not a great car to track more than a lap, and in some cases it won't even do a lap without overheating and going into limp mode (ie: Sebring in summer).

It's a great time to be a car enthusiast, especially an American car enthusiast. There are a ton of options out there and a bunch of really good cars to choose from. At the end of the day, if you want to go faster than a GT500 CFTP, you're going to be spending A LOT more money to do so.
 

Epiphany

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Would have been nice if just for once, Ford did the same and shared the results with a '20 GT500.

 

Idaho2018GTPremium

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Yes both the GT500CFTP & ZL11LE are second(S) faster when a pro is behind the wheel, but the gap between the 500 & LE is much larger than 0.4 seconds. I cannot disclose that confidential information, but if I get an opportunity to publicly drive them (maybe for my new YouTube Channel: "One Lap Billy")

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjHejXhm1Q600GKGGv-My7w

...Then this could easily be settled.

I'm proud to have worked on the GT500, it's a truly impressive car and the development of the car was quite special. But overall, I'm a car guy who appreciates cars objectively for what they are. Every car has strengths and weaknesses. There are things the Mustang does that are better than the Camaro, and there are things the Camaro does better than the Mustang. Just because the Camaro is slower doesn't make it a 'worse' or 'bad' car. It's just slower around a lap. Pointing out that objective fact, and pointing out the various magazine tests are complete crap, having variables that cause SECONDS of a lap difference and often being driven seconds slower than what these cars are capable of doesn't make me biased or a fan-boy, but rather having a lot more insight than relying on other people's testing. Because i've done better tests than they have and see how bad their test procedures are. Check out my "Intro" video on my channel for more insight on this.

The base ZL1 is also a great car, and they're awesome on track. You will likely enjoy your car. Now the cooling issues of the C7 Z06 make it outright not a great car to track more than a lap, and in some cases it won't even do a lap without overheating and going into limp mode (ie: Sebring in summer).

It's a great time to be a car enthusiast, especially an American car enthusiast. There are a ton of options out there and a bunch of really good cars to choose from. At the end of the day, if you want to go faster than a GT500 CFTP, you're going to be spending A LOT more money to do so.
That's a great response--thanks. I'll be checking out your new YouTube channel as well -- and hope you can get the Camaro ZLE and GT500 CFTP on a track for a same day comparison. Also - if you get the chance, a ZL1 vs base GT500 would also be something that I think people would like to see -- I know I would. All of the vs. track tests have been the ZLE vs CFTP, a little love for the less track oriented versions would be nice as well.

I agree it's an amazing time to be a car enthusiast. Esp. for American muscle. So many great choices in the recent past, and now.
 

V00D00

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You're funny. It beat the ZLE by 4 tenths of a second (a driver's race) with +110 hp, DCT, Carbon Fiber wheels, CF drive shaft, +$18,000. In real life the price discrepancy is like $20-40k since you can get a ZLE for under msrp, and CFTPs are hard to find at msrp.

Look I get it - the CFTP beat the ZLE around VIR by 4 tenths and its quicker in a straight line. It took all of those large advantages mentioned above because Ford chose to make it more comfortable as a daily. Both manufacturers have chosen different routes to achieve pretty close to the same times around a track. The GT500 is awesome, no doubt. But for quite a bit less money, the ZL1 and ZLE are right there with the base GT500 and GT500 CFTP. And not for nothing, but the ZL1 can also run 10s (albeit high 10s) in stock form at a prepped drag strip.



We've had this conversation. The ZL1 beat a GT350R that had CF wheels, large CF wing, nearly 200 lbs lighter, and wider Cup 2 tires (vs. the narrower Goodyears on the M6 ZL1). We talked about how the ZL1 carried more g's in some brake zones and some turns than the R, despite the grip disadvantages listed above. The ZL1's advantage was power and chassis design, while the R had everything else (tires, aero, weight, etc.), yet came up short in the one thing it was made for - a track.

yes, it beat it on the roadcourse, it beats it on the dragstrip, it beats it on public roads.. it beats it in uniqueness.. how many beatings does a car have to take before the argument is dead?
If your comparing a ZL1 1LE to a base GT500, youd be wrong, compare it to the CFTP, conversely, compare the BASE ZL1 Vs base GT500.. the GT500 kills it even worse. hell, the BASE GT500 kills the 1LE..
 

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