Road Course / AutoX Spring / Shock / Strut / Sways Package

[NightmareMoon]

Yeah, IDK. Setting up a car for “autox/track” but never using it that way is a strange priority. You’ll skip the inconvenient things that matter most for grip at an autox or track day (wheels, tires, camber, great shocks) and add the bits that are the most inconvenient to live with in a daily driver situation and help the least (stiff springs, swaybars)

I’d still recommend doing springs, shocks, and sways if you want them, but lets be honest, this is a sporty street duty car, not an autox/track car. Autox/Track implies so much more than you’re going to be willing to do.

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[CitizenCrusader]

Yeah, IDK. Setting up a car for “autox/track” but never using it that way is a strange priority.

Yeah I think we're getting distracted here. I'm looking for a road course-style handling package (as opposed to, say drag race or street only) such as one would use for AutoX, weekend track events, and similar. The fact that I won't actually use it at an AutoX is incidental; but for illustration only, that's the type of setup I'm pursuing. The car may see occasional track use, but not AutoX because, as I said, the local group here are douchhats of the very most cringy variety.

Apologies for not being more clear. I can understand how saying "AutoX" followed by "I don't want to AutoX anymore" can seem self-contradictory.

You’ll skip the inconvenient things that matter most for grip at an autox or track day (wheels, tires, camber, great shocks) and add the bits that are the most inconvenient to live with in a daily driver situation and help the least (stiff springs, swaybars)

I don't know about that. Wheels / tires / camber / shocks are very much in bounds for discussion. I would think a square tire setup would be ideal, and I'd like to get up to a 305 on it, if possible.

I’d still recommend doing springs, shocks, and sways if you want them, but lets be honest, this is a sporty street duty car, not an autox/track car. Autox/Track implies so much more than you’re going to be willing to do.

True that it'll primarily see use as a street car, but that doesn't require it be configured as such in the usual sense. And I'd really like it to stop the nose from diving when I clutch on hard launches.

Michelin 4s isn’t a track tire.

A bit more of missing the point. No one said that it is, just that I'll be using them until they're worn out. I'd rather have a replacement plan *before* then, even though I won't be implementing that plan *until* then. Sorry, again, if that wasn't clear.

 

[CitizenCrusader]

Are we good on the semantics now? Let's get back to building a shopping list instead of scrutinizing whether or not it'll actually be used in organized competition. If anything, that should be easier -- no class restrictions to worry about!

Tangent -- SCCA rules sent my MS6 all the way down to f'n Street Modified over a blow-off valve. "Any modification of the intake system after the throttle body of naturally aspirated engines, or after the impeller of forced induction engines." I still had fun racing my clubbies, but there was no way for my piggy to actually be competitive in SM without ruining it.

I just want it to kick maximum ass on country roads and the highway while I drive like a jackhat to and from work. It needs to flatten out and stiffen up quite a bit, but should still be a set-and-forget configuration that won't need / benefit materially from incremental adjustments based on the day's agenda.

Is this making sense yet? I feel like I'm losing the audience here.

 

[Brian@BMVK]

Are we good on the semantics now? Let's get back to building a shopping list instead of scrutinizing whether or not it'll actually be used in organized competition. If anything, that should be easier -- no class restrictions to worry about!

Tangent -- SCCA rules sent my MS6 all the way down to f'n Street Modified over a blow-off valve. "Any modification of the intake system after the throttle body of naturally aspirated engines, or after the impeller of forced induction engines." I still had fun racing my clubbies, but there was no way for my piggy to actually be competitive in SM without ruining it.

I just want it to kick maximum ass on country roads and the highway while I drive like a jackhat to and from work. It needs to flatten out and stiffen up quite a bit, but should still be a set-and-forget configuration that won't need / benefit materially from incremental adjustments based on the day's agenda.

Is this making sense yet? I feel like I'm losing the audience here.

Post #2.

 

[CitizenCrusader]

Post #2.

THREAD WIN TURN ON.

Roger. Contact incoming.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Brian is a good guy with a good read on what works. Definitely consider taking him up on his offer.

square 305 tires are possible, and there are threads on it. You’ll want 11” wheels around ET 52, extended studs on the front hubs, 1”/25mm slip on spacers to go on those studs, and camber plates to tuck the package into the fron wheel wells. 305 on an 11” ET 52 fits naturally on the rear.

 

[CitizenCrusader]

Brian is a good guy with a good read on what works. Definitely consider taking him up on his offer.

square 305 tires are possible, and there are threads on it. You’ll want 11” wheels around ET 52, extended studs on the front hubs, 1”/25mm slip on spacers to go on those studs, and camber plates to tuck the package into the fron wheel wells. 305 on an 11” ET 52 fits naturally on the rear.

Hey so question about the camber plates for this specific setup you described -- won't that wear out the inside of the tire way faster than the outside? Seems like you'd be leaning the tire in to clear the fenders, which would shift the weight to the inside of the tire instead of distributing it equally. No? Or do we not care because price-of-fame, etc.?

 

[Brian@BMVK]

Brian is a good guy with a good read on what works. Definitely consider taking him up on his offer.

square 305 tires are possible, and there are threads on it. You’ll want 11” wheels around ET 52, extended studs on the front hubs, 1”/25mm slip on spacers to go on those studs, and camber plates to tuck the package into the fron wheel wells. 305 on an 11” ET 52 fits naturally on the rear.

Agreed! Gotta have properly wide tires for serious handling.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Hey so question about the camber plates for this specific setup you described -- won't that wear out the inside of the tire way faster than the outside? Seems like you'd be leaning the tire in to clear the fenders, which would shift the weight to the inside of the tire instead of distributing it equally. No? Or do we not care because price-of-fame, etc.?

Yes and no. If you’re driving it hard (again actual autox/track vs street use) that camber saves the tires outside shoulder. If you’re not driving that hard just slap on a 19x10ET35 with 285 tires on the stock hubs/studs and call it a day.

even stock GT350s loose the inside tread edge too fast on MP4S tire with stock camber. We kind of think its a design problem with the tire. Tread wear is accelerated by toe, so make sure your toe up front is zero and the camber won’t hurt them too bad.

I run -2.8 camber up front via plates which is plenty to fit the tires and my Michelins last 15-20k miles and then die on the i side edge a bit earlier than they otherwise would, but with the GT350s getting the same pattern I wonder how much is camber and how much is the tire design. They don’t start with very tall tread blocks in that spot when new.

 

[NightmareMoon]

Heres what that looks like with Apex SM-10 19x11 wheels and 305/30R19 rubber

 

[CitizenCrusader]

Yes and no. If you’re driving it hard (again actual autox/track vs street use) that camber saves the tires outside shoulder. If you’re not driving that hard just slap on a 19x10ET35 with 285 tires on the stock hubs/studs and call it a day.

even stock GT350s loose the inside tread edge too fast on MP4S tire with stock camber. We kind of think its a design problem with the tire. Tread wear is accelerated by toe, so make sure your toe up front is zero and the camber won’t hurt them too bad.

I run -2.8 camber up front via plates which is plenty to fit the tires and my Michelins last 15-20k miles and then die on the i side edge a bit earlier than they otherwise would, but with the GT350s getting the same pattern I wonder how much is camber and how much is the tire design. They don’t start with very tall tread blocks in that spot when new.

Yeah see I could live with that. ~15k miles is all I expect out of a set of tires anyway (the stock P-Heroes made it around 12k and the MPSS that followed about 17k but they were DONE done).

 

[NightmareMoon]

Yeah see I could live with that. ~15k miles is all I expect out of a set of tires anyway (the stock P-Heroes made it around 12k and the MPSS that followed about 17k but they were DONE done).

Yeah the miles beyond 15k the tires are hardened from heat cycles anyway.

Given the cost of the MP4S I’d like to get a bit more, but its not terrible.

 

[Brian@BMVK]

Yeah the miles beyond 15k the tires are hardened from heat cycles anyway.

Given the cost of the MP4S I’d like to get a bit more, but its not terrible.

PSS last longer and seem more track durable, if a little slower.

 

[NightmareMoon]

PSS last longer and seem more track durable, if a little slower.

We’ll don’t get attached cause they’re going away for the MP4S.

 

[Roadway 5.0]

PSS last longer and seem more track durable, if a little slower.

We’ll don’t get attached cause they’re going away for the MP4S.

Interesting this is brought up. After driving both the PSS and MP4S for many miles, I prefer the dynamic of the PSS for sure. Too bad they are on the way out.

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