Beginning to think I don't know how to drive a mustang...

[BimmerDriver]

Obviously...

Norm, you just won't give this up, will you?

Like yourself, I have been driving for longer than most of the youngsters on this forum have been alive. And I've got thousands of miles, tends of thousands on the racetrack, driving, teaching, racing, etc. and I am an absolutely incredible driver who doesn't need all of that technology on the track and I too turn it all off.

But we're not talking about you and I, highly trained and experienced drivers who pay attention 100% of the time, ready to react, never distracted and always sitting with the correct hand position. The brain-dead distracted inexperienced texters out there who consider their car to be an appliance used to get them from wifi hotspot to wifi hotspot. Those are the folks who need all of this stuff. They are the ones doing 75 MPH down the highway, occasionally glancing up from their screen to see if their exit is approaching, so that they can quickly swerve, without signalling or even looking behind them, into the other lane in order to get to that drivethrough as quickly as possible without spilling their latte.

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[Norm Peterson]

Edit: A point I forgot to mention, that norm mentioned above, is that turning it off keeps me in check. I'm probably much more conservative, in general, than someone who keeps it on. I read about people saying "oh yeah I floor it in the rain and traction control keeps it under control," or that stupid thread that was along the lines of "I punched it in the rain but lost control, is my traction control defective?" Seriously? I won't even humor that notion. Why? Because I know what happens when there's no computer assistance if I get stupid.

I don't see traction control as adding an element of safety. I see traction control as something that's allowing irresponsible drivers to get away with things they otherwise shouldn't.

Sadly, a great many people not only don't think that way . . . they don't even want the rest of us to.

My wife has said to our kids and I think even a couple of their friends "you have to know your car", and she's never been interested in doing either autocross or track driving.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Norm, you just won't give this up, will you?

Like yourself, I have been driving for longer than most of the youngsters on this forum have been alive. And I've got thousands of miles, tends of thousands on the racetrack, driving, teaching, racing, etc. and I am an absolutely incredible driver who doesn't need all of that technology on the track and I too turn it all off.

But we're not talking about you and I, highly trained and experienced drivers who pay attention 100% of the time, ready to react, never distracted and always sitting with the correct hand position. The brain-dead distracted inexperienced texters out there who consider their car to be an appliance used to get them from wifi hotspot to wifi hotspot. Those are the folks who need all of this stuff. They are the ones doing 75 MPH down the highway, occasionally glancing up from their screen to see if their exit is approaching, so that they can quickly swerve, without signalling or even looking behind them, into the other lane in order to get to that drivethrough as quickly as possible without spilling their latte.

My complaint isn't about these electronic assistances being present in cars, including mine.

What it is about is the arbitrary, near-religious insistence by some that I treat these technologies exactly as they do. Even after I've experienced shortcomings in their behavior.

The Mustang doesn't have an ESC system to turn off, and the Maxima doesn't even have TC. But I'm not supposed to ever turn the VDC off in the WRX and risk teaching myself things about driving in an emergency that won't work in the other two cars (and might even be the wrong things)?


Norm

 

[HoosierDaddy]

... or do I?

I bring this up cause like most of you I have seen the videos of the wipe outs, the cars and coffee stuff and loosing control. I see the threads and conversations of "all this power" and people cant handle it and learning to not let the back end go all over the place.

I dont have these issues. I give my car hell (19 gt premium , bolt ons, tune) i hit corners full throttle, take hairpin curves wide open, wide open from stop lights. actually most my passengers tell me to calm down a bit LOL. and I dont have back ends flying out, loosing control , crashing, crazy fear of the car and all its power. Hell I go to empty parking lots and long stretches of back woods no where roads and try to get some of this sliding and rear end loosing control action and cant even when I try. This car is stable as a rock. I actually want to have a little out of control fun and cant seem too.

So how do these people just loose control and not able to handle "all this power" under normal driving? Ive had 4 mustangs 2 gts and one cobra and never have I just lost control of the rear end. so either I just dont know how to drive it or I do LOL

Or maybe there has been something wrong with all my cars and they are under powered. lol I just cant understand how people loose control taking off from a stop light , I cant even when I try and they arent even trying.

Contrary to folk lore, most Mustangs can go to hundreds of C&Cs without crashing. Want to hear something funny? Every one that did had a driver that said the same things you do. You sound VERY unskilled. If you haven't experienced out of control, you have no experience with out of control.

 

[Nate_V8]

I believe anyone who can properly handle a stock suspension foxbody can handle a coyote. Those rears would bind so bad and then be so unpredictable in corners..... was what kind of made them fun.

When OP says the nannies are off, are they actually completely off? I believe I read somewhere that you have to pull a fuse or something for '18+ to really turn them off because 460hp in a heavy car is incredibly easy to blow back end out in any turn. Doesn't matter what you've driven before, the street is not perfect and heavy/powerful = losing traction easy. The stability control though does some impressive work, I took mine out last winter and tried to make it spin out, just like OP describes that he tries to lose control, and it will not happen. Technology is amazing.

 

[Bear_Stang]

Many, many people have no understanding of car control. The Mustang is very affordable, therefore lots of unskilled and untrained can buy them.

EXACTLY!!
Mustangs are one of (if not the) most common sports coupe on american roads with a wide range of accessibility. Its not that there are more idiots driving mustangs, it is that there are more mustangs available to everyone (idiots included). I remember when the catfish camaro had the same rep.

 

[MDM]

Briebee72 - Be careful what you wish for!

Norm - Good for you! But remember you are influencing others when you take such a stand on a public forum. What you failed to mention is the newer cars have higher limits. Less experienced drivers need to react faster than ever before if anywhere near the limit.

If anyone wants to find the limits my suggestion is to find a skid pad or, if up north, a snow covered parking lot. Either will let you know quickly if your nannies are on or off.

Another good test of skills is to autocross. Leave nannies on and drive the course at 10/10ths without having it intervene. When you can do that you know you have a decent handle on the car.

Good luck and be safe!

 

[hws52]

Part of the problem I believe is the wholesale trusting of advertising telling us that if we get/do this/that we can do/drive anything. All the stability, traction, etc., controls on modern Mustangs are a great tool but just makes it easier for the uneducated driver to get in trouble. My first of four Mustangs was a '69 Sportroof 302 V8, even the basically stock car was quick due to low weight. The only time I ever lost it was middle of Ohio winter coming down a hwy entrance ramp way to fast and not realizing how icy the hwy was. Thank goodness for my dad insisting I learn to drive in all conditions and nobody else around I managed to get hold of the car after spinning twice. My '03 GT was great in the dry with the Goodyear Gaterbacks but soso in the rain, never had a problem winter or rain that I couldn't correct.

 

[Briebee72]

You sound VERY unskilled.

OK, thanks for your feedback. This thread was meant as fun but I see some have, well, done the usual to it. :( ah egos......

 

[Aldra]

The assists can occasionally be more of a hindrance than a help, but far more often they save people and cars.

Driving trucks in 2 wheel drive in the snow you know the rear will over steer, but that's generally because you're turning to hard over or trying to accelerate to fast. My first truck with assists wouldnt allow it unless you really tried, but then it would understeer like crazy, so I preferred it off.

However, if my wife was driving that truck, at the more cautious pace that she and most people probably would, the assists would have actually helped keep it in the right lane. So a lot of this comes down to driving style and skill.

But there is absolutely no doubt that for the vast majority of drivers and situations the assists do their job. It seems a little silly to suggest that driving with them off will be better because you might encounter a very rare circumstance when the other 99.99% of the time they would actually help keep you safe under normal driving circumstances.

 

[Brian@BMVK]

. The brain-dead distracted inexperienced texters out there who consider their car to be an appliance used to get them from wifi hotspot to wifi hotspot. Those are the folks who need all of this stuff. They are the ones doing 75 MPH down the highway, occasionally glancing up from their screen to see if their exit is approaching, so that they can quickly swerve, without signalling or even looking behind them, into the other lane in order to get to that drivethrough as quickly as possible without spilling their latte.

Because we let them do this. Driving isn't a right. The discipline and competence required to pilot a 4000 lb missile on roads we all share should be far, far higher than it is. The risks people take when they're in their own homes or in a situation where they cannot hurt anyone else? Don't care.

It's not up to me, but if it were, I'd make the standards and testing required similar to many of our friends overseas. Far more hours. Retesting every 5-10 years. Limit handling/emergency situation demonstration. License fees that are high enough to make people sure about going through what it takes to be well trained.
"but Brian, people need to drive!"
"driving isn't a right, and no one needs to be handed the keys to something that can easily kill or hurt someone else in unskilled hands"

If you go through any driving training programs at an OEM that certify you to drive company vehicles on the test tracks, they do all that same stuff. It's part of ensuring a reasonable level competence and safety. Those should be applied to everyone everywhere.

 

[Vlad Soare]

But there is absolutely no doubt that for the vast majority of drivers and situations the assists do their job.

That's because the vast majority of people shouldn't even be allowed to see what a driver's license looks like, let alone possess one.
But if you can drive properly, then you can drive properly without them. Suggesting that anyone who turns them off is utterly irresponsible and is surely going to crash is silly.

 

[Brian@BMVK]

That's because the vast majority of people shouldn't even be allowed to see what a driver's license looks like, let alone possess one.
But if you can drive properly, then you can drive properly without them. Suggesting that anyone who turns them off is utterly irresponsible and is surely going to crash is silly.

This

 

[Mazman]

I bought a MX-5 to learn how to drive

By that I mean starting to track the car, auto cross etc
If you have never been at a track you realize you are not as as good as of a driver you think you are (this would be applicable for most drivers)

Also to fully turn of the advance track the traction control button needs to be held for some seconds.
In my car if I would have done it as the OP says I would for sure burn the tires by truly turning off the traction control.

Also a lot of folks crashing seem to be in manuals and it is the 1-2 shift that takes them off guard

 

[Briebee72]

Everyone thinks they are a good driver. A few years ago some of the insurance companies went around asking people if they were good drivers. Surprise 98% said yes. They said they had claims that said otherwise LOL

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