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Beginning to think I don't know how to drive a mustang...

Sivi70980

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The assists can occasionally be more of a hindrance than a help, but far more often they save people and cars.

Driving trucks in 2 wheel drive in the snow you know the rear will over steer, but that's generally because you're turning to hard over or trying to accelerate to fast. My first truck with assists wouldnt allow it unless you really tried, but then it would understeer like crazy, so I preferred it off.

However, if my wife was driving that truck, at the more cautious pace that she and most people probably would, the assists would have actually helped keep it in the right lane. So a lot of this comes down to driving style and skill.

But there is absolutely no doubt that for the vast majority of drivers and situations the assists do their job. It seems a little silly to suggest that driving with them off will be better because you might encounter a very rare circumstance when the other 99.99% of the time they would actually help keep you safe under normal driving circumstances.
I'll never forget my 2010 Raptor in the snow. 2WD and all nannies on. Icey/snowy parking lot. The nannies kept it in total control based off the traction of the tires. It was the first vehicle I got to realize the cool tech that actually keeps everything as in order as it can based on traction. Could turn the wheel to lock and floor it and it would only give x power to the wheels so you wouldn't spin the tires or slide around. Turn the nannies off and weeeeeed!!
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Vlad Soare

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Everyone thinks they are a good driver. A few years ago some of the insurance companies went around asking people if they were good drivers. Surprise 98% said yes. They said they had claims that said otherwise LOL
True. But that doesn't necessarily mean that all of them are wrong. Some may be right. :)
 

Sivi70980

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Everyone thinks they are a good driver. A few years ago some of the insurance companies went around asking people if they were good drivers. Surprise 98% said yes. They said they had claims that said otherwise LOL
Hahah! I used to be a better driver, not sure if I was ever good though. Lots of situations where luck came into play too. As a young adult (20 years ago, yeesh!!), I would take every vehicle I had access to and go someplace quiet and open and slide around and "practice" 180's and drifting and generally beat the crap out of the car. Every car got the same treatment but less and less as I've aged. I feel now that edge or stupidity as a young driver is dull. Maturity keeps me out of many situations but should emergency require evasive action, I know I'm not the driver I used to be. I put "good" driving in the same category as being a good marksman, its a deteriorating skill. I don't think my age has much to do with it as much as lack of practice. But as an adult, tires are expensive!! Saying all of this does have me thinking of a super cheap set of wheels and nearly bald tires as training tools. Actually, I haven't been shooting in forever either <sigh>.
 
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Briebee72

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True. But that doesn't necessarily mean that all of them are wrong. Some may be right.
I look at it as like when someone smoking a cigarette looks at my energy drink and says man thats bad for ya. Just like someone earlier in the thread said I was unskilled as a driver.. am I? almost 50 never had an accident never been hit as I have avoided all of them and never have I had a claim ever except for a windshield from a rock. Can the person who claimed I was unskilled and he was a race car beast claim the same? How do you measure skill? I know plenty of people who can drive a car and claim to track them and can drive but they have all had traffic accidents. Most of them at some point have totaled a car. So who is a better driver really? Its just egos and a pissing match thats all.

Ive been in cars where the driver the whole time was look at that idiot, did you see that guy cut me off. Gezzz people cant drive . Then turns right around and cuts someone else off and thinks nothing of it. LOL People just like to asserted their perceived superiority over others and claiming to be great and better drivers is an easy way to do so.

At the end of the day the only thing saving any of us is 4 inches of yellow paint. Think about that....
 
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Briebee72

Briebee72

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Hahah! I used to be a better driver, not sure if I was ever good though. Lots of situations where luck came into play too. As a young adult (20 years ago, yeesh!!), I would take every vehicle I had access to and go someplace quiet and open and slide around and "practice" 180's and drifting and generally beat the crap out of the car. Every car got the same treatment but less and less as I've aged. I feel now that edge or stupidity as a young driver is dull. Maturity keeps me out of many situations but should emergency require evasive action, I know I'm not the driver I used to be. I put "good" driving in the same category as being a good marksman, its a deteriorating skill. I don't think my age has much to do with it as much as lack of practice. But as an adult, tires are expensive!! Saying all of this does have me thinking of a super cheap set of wheels and nearly bald tires as training tools. Actually, I haven't been shooting in forever either <sigh>.
Yes I agree. as we age we get less "good at driving" the problem is most people cant face the fact they are getting old and insist they are still sharp as a tack when in fact they are not. You dont hear much about (sober) teens and 20 somethings accidentally mixing up the pedals and driving through a bank or cafe store front. there comes an age when people need to hang it up and admit they dont need to be behind a wheel any more. hell once my day comes ill be so happy to have someone drive me around :)
 

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Sivi70980

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Yes I agree. as we age we get less "good at driving" the problem is most people cant face the fact they are getting old and insist they are still sharp as a tack when in fact they are not. You dont hear much about (sober) teens and 20 somethings accidentally mixing up the pedals and driving through a bank or cafe store front. there comes an age when people need to hang it up and admit they dont need to be behind a wheel any more. hell once my day comes ill be so happy to have someone drive me around :)
Right! When I tested for my license when I was 18 (parents doing that parenting thing lol) I couldn't believe some of the renewals they had in there. An old lady hauling around an oxygen tank was the worst. My dad was great though, made sure I knew who I'm sharing the roads with. I got a perfect score on the written test and only thing the tester got me on the drive was hesitating a bit pulling on to a main road from a residential street. If she could have seen me a week later, I'm sure it would have been a fail lol. No accidents luckily but was experiencing constant traction loss everywhere. Got a little smarter and stopped putting everyone else at risk pretty quick though. That 83 accord hatchback was beat all to hell and back.

I think when my time comes, I wont have to have anyone drive me around. Everything will get delivered to me and as the old person in the family, doesn't that mean all the younger ones come to you? I'll probably still try to sneak out in my super old classic 2019 mustang though, it'll make me feel young as I run everything over in the neighborhood.
 

Norm Peterson

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Norm - Good for you! But remember you are influencing others when you take such a stand on a public forum. What you failed to mention is the newer cars have higher limits. Less experienced drivers need to react faster than ever before if anywhere near the limit.
Thanks. I get what you're saying here, and it's really not my intention to recommend that anybody else turn these things off. I'm only suggesting that it is possible to successfully drive without these systems active, even over an extended length of time.

Autocross is my go-to suggestion for finding out how your car behaves when driven hard enough to where some nanny or other might start taking an interest in the proceedings. With street-ish speeds, minimal risk, and with in-car instruction frequently available (up until this Covid thing, anyway), I can't think of a better way that's anywhere near as accessible.


I'm glad you brought up the notion of cars today having higher limits (at least generally), because it's caused at least one new train of thought . . . whether any given driver in his street driving just naturally drives to a more or less fixed level of performance or does he adjust his driving to be harder when greater performance is available. IOW, how big of a factor is the the car, or its power, or its image here? I'm only looking at street driving here; I think we can all agree that when it comes to dragstrip, autocross, or road course driving that most of us are going to be trying to use every bit of performance available or at least close to it as much as possible.

I'm thinking that on the street there are those who don't drive much different no matter what car they're driving, those whose level of 'driving enthusiasm' rises and falls with the particular car they're driving at the moment, and some range in the middle where it sometimes matters and the rest of the time it doesn't.


As a side note, I suspect that the performance levels of my S197 in its current state of development aren't as far behind the S550 as the magazine stats suggest, acceleration performance excepted. It's actually quite easy to drive at speed on the track and has been easy to 'catch' when getting a little too greedy with the throttle in the wet.


Norm

(edited to remove text I'd meant to delete)
 
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Rusherific

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I couldn't believe some of the renewals they had in there. An old lady hauling around an oxygen tank was the worst.
I still remember waiting around back at the DMV for my driving test. They make you go through the basic controls/operations and the woman in front of me was hitting all kinds of stuff like the wipers and the hazards when the guy was just asking her to apply the brakes to make sure the lights were operational. :facepalm: That was probably my first real-world driving lesson, that these are the types of people I'll be next to in the rain doing 60mph.

That 83 accord hatchback was beat all to hell and back.
Yes I did much dumber and more dangerous things in my first '88 Integra with 118hp than I have or will ever do with the GT350. Part of it is age and part of is that the two cars are about as far apart as any two things that could both be called vehicles. You could drive that Integra flat out through a starbucks drive-thru if you wanted and have fun. Modern sports cars a bit different a story. I can't imagine exploring the limits of my car now on the street.

It's crazy to me honestly that there's not a tiered licensing system. That passing a 10 minute driving test in your mom's RAV4 licenses you to drive a Viper ACR given the chance. And don't get me started on CA's motorcycle test. I opted for the safety course instead, where you learn actual useful stuff like what it feels like to lock up a wheel and ride over an obstacle in the road. I feel like something similar to get a regular car driver's license would be a great thing.
 

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I think one reason is that most of those Mustangs had live rear axle suspension systems. Much harder to keep under control over individual rear suspension.
 

Sivi70980

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I still remember waiting around back at the DMV for my driving test. They make you go through the basic controls/operations and the woman in front of me was hitting all kinds of stuff like the wipers and the hazards when the guy was just asking her to apply the brakes to make sure the lights were operational. :facepalm: That was probably my first real-world driving lesson, that these are the types of people I'll be next to in the rain doing 60mph.



Yes I did much dumber and more dangerous things in my first '88 Integra with 118hp than I have or will ever do with the GT350. Part of it is age and part of is that the two cars are about as far apart as any two things that could both be called vehicles. You could drive that Integra flat out through a starbucks drive-thru if you wanted and have fun. Modern sports cars a bit different a story. I can't imagine exploring the limits of my car now on the street.

It's crazy to me honestly that there's not a tiered licensing system. That passing a 10 minute driving test in your mom's RAV4 licenses you to drive a Viper ACR given the chance. And don't get me started on CA's motorcycle test. I opted for the safety course instead, where you learn actual useful stuff like what it feels like to lock up a wheel and ride over an obstacle in the road. I feel like something similar to get a regular car driver's license would be a great thing.
Tiered could be good but how would you govern it? I mean, lots of people drive without a license anyways so maybe it wont matter. My dad taught me driving was a privilege and took my keys more than a few times because I drove like a dumb ass teenager. After having a car and then riding the ol bicycle to work because you did something dumb worked on me. I learned to hide the dumb stuff way better. My dad, the mechanic by trade, would get me every time the car needed maintenance though. Then I moved out and money became I thing I never had enough of so tire conservation finally hit the radar. And tickets too, no way in hell I'd ride the bicycle to work again....and now I enjoy riding the damn bicycle for fitness. Life is funny.
 

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I'm glad you brought up the notion of cars today having higher limits (at least generally), because it's caused at least one new train of thought . . . whether any given driver in his street driving just naturally drives to a more or less fixed level of performance or does he adjust his driving to be harder when greater performance is available. IOW, how big of a factor is the the car, or its power, or its image here?
I mean I think you can apply this even to regular people in non-performance oriented settings. You look at minivans and crossovers and what they are capable of now compared to 20-30 years ago, 2-300 horsepower, stability control, autopilot features. You see people on the freeway in a RAV4 going 90mph cutting people off and swerving etc. I know there's always been bad drivers but I feel like the increasing levels of competence, power, and safety in modern vehicles of all kinds enables more reckless driving on average. People just expect their cars to accelerate, brake, and swerve them out of trouble, yet cars keep getting bigger and heaver and faster leading to higher and higher energies in accidents.
 

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You dont hear much about (sober) teens and 20 somethings accidentally mixing up the pedals and driving through a bank or cafe store front.
I have a strong suspicion that elderly people who accidentally mix up the pedals and drive through a store front were never any good at driving to begin with. They may have been OK-ish back then (but only just), and then got gradually worse as time went by. I doubt that someone who's a reasonably good driver in his thirties will be a disaster in his seventies.
 
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Paris MkVI

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I started learning in the driver seat of my '69 Mustang. An unpredictable pony, always ready to bite you in the butt, and kick your astonished carcass across the road. Happy to steer with the rear wheels and the throttle, it could turn a bad driver into an instant passenger in a heartbeat. Lord help you if the pavement was damp. I had some scary moments in that car. It's where I quickly discovered the relationship between pedals and steering, fortunately without stuffing it into anything.

In my experience, too much input is what creates the viral videos.

If someone is providing mucho input with both the pedals and the steering, that'll get you to the land of sadness, The car takes the input, the driver realizes (too late) that they provided too much input, and they proceed to over-correct. The over-correction typically takes one of two forms. [1] The driver applies far too much steering input (and slams the barrier wall/guardrail/tree/building/fill-in your own immovable object.) [2] The driver applies too much throttle or brake, or transitions from too much throttle to too much brake. Usually the back end then participates in the steering (oversteer) leading to sad outcomes.

Manual gearboxes and 435 horses (not too mention all the torque) can be wipe-out territory for folks who don't understand vehicle dynamics, and don't get to know their steed a lot better before pushing down the loud pedal. They would benefit from some of that empty K-Mart parking lot time - as far away from the light posts as possible.

The first thing I share with beginners/newbies to good old muscle cars is this: Image a rope tied between your throttle foot and the bottom of the steering wheel. If you want more throttle, you'll be giving up some steering. If you want more steering, you'll need to give up some throttle. Let them start there - and gradually build up their feel and understanding of the Beast.

The ones who stuff it into an immovable object took the test before attending the class. That's just backwards.
 

Balr14

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I believe a good driver is somebody who knows the car's and their own limitations and drives accordingly, regardless of age. I drove in a number of forms of competition when I was young that I could not do any more. Competition motorcycle training and many years of cycle riding really hones your driving instincts. But, I'm pushing 77 and my response time is nothing like it used to be. If I want an exciting ride, it will be as a passenger.
 

Norm Peterson

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I think one reason is that most of those Mustangs had live rear axle suspension systems. Much harder to keep under control over individual rear suspension.
That's not always the case. Over bumpy pavement, yes. But there are times when having the two rear wheels rigidly tied together can make the car more predictable because the two wheels are at least on the same page. Either way, stick-axle or IRS, it does have to be a well thought-out arrangement.


Norm
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