Car is dead - Need help

[Cobra Jet]

So they said the main fuse along with fusebox need to be changed. There is no power going to PCM (or part of PCM). Also battery needs to be changed.

They are saying $590 or so to change the battery, reprogram it, change the fuse box as well.

What are your thoughts?

i told them i could change the battery myself but the foreman said batteries in these cars need to be reprogrammed and unless i have the computer they do, i cant do that

Battery aside (yes I know the Dealer and others on here are recommending replacement)....

The battery does NOT need to be “programmed”... that’s a new one (laughing).


The bigger questions should be:
1) Why did the fuse short?
2) Why are they recommending that the entire fuse box be replaced (unless I’m not reading the replies correctly)...

So if the fuse popped - then somehow the system was shorted. Was the car incorrectly jumped after it sat on the side of the road? That could cause a blown fuse.

Did a harness or fusible link fail - causing the short? Does that explain replacement of the fuse box itself? Not sure on this one, because I’ve never heard of a fuse that can’t be changed unless the entire fuse box is replaced... can you imagine people all over the world going into a parts store needing to buy an entire fuse box to replace a single fuse?

BTW, what’s your Service Writer smoking, because it’s some good shit (for him) that makes for some wild repair explanations.

I do know that the main terminals for the battery and other cables are on the side of the fuse box under the hood... IF the car was improperly jumped or jumper cables left on improperly, my guess is it would be entirely possible that due to the improper connection, the terminal block surrounding plastic could have melted causing the block to come in contact with other metal, thus causing a major fault. It’s also possible that the terminal block fused metal together IF again the car was improperly jumped....

What your Service Center is telling you isn’t making sense (at least not how it’s being relayed back on here).

I also don’t think replacement of the fuse box would be under $600 including parts and R&R labor hours - when most dealerships are charging $90+ an hour for labor alone. Add in say $120-$140 for the battery cost... it’s not adding up when they’re saying they are replacing the entire fuse box. Maybe it could add up, but just quick estimate and location of the part and how’s its interconnected - seems to be more involved.

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[UnhandledException]

Battery aside (yes I know the Dealer and others on here are recommending replacement)....

The battery does NOT need to be “programmed”... that’s a new one (laughing).


The bigger questions should be:
1) Why did the fuse short?
2) Why are they recommending that the entire fuse box be replaced (unless I’m not reading the replies correctly)...

So if the fuse popped - then somehow the system was shorted. Was the car incorrectly jumped after it sat on the side of the road? That could cause a blown fuse.

Did a harness or fusible link fail - causing the short? Does that explain replacement of the fuse box itself? Not sure on this one, because I’ve never heard of a fuse that can’t be changed unless the entire fuse box is replaced... can you imagine people all over the world going into a parts store needing to buy an entire fuse box to replace a single fuse?

BTW, what’s your Service Writer smoking, because it’s some good shit (for him) that makes for some wild repair explanations.

I do know that the main terminals for the battery and other cables are on the side of the fuse box under the hood... IF the car was improperly jumped or jumper cables left on improperly, my guess is it would be entirely possible that due to the improper connection, the terminal block surrounding plastic could have melted causing the block to come in contact with other metal, thus causing a major fault. It’s also possible that the terminal block fused metal together IF again the car was improperly jumped....

What your Service Center is telling you isn’t making sense (at least not how it’s being relayed back on here).

I also don’t think replacement of the fuse box would be under $600 including parts and R&R labor hours - when most dealerships are charging $90+ an hour for labor alone. Add in say $120-$140 for the battery cost... it’s not adding up when they’re saying they are replacing the entire fuse box. Maybe it could add up, but just quick estimate and location of the part and how’s its interconnected - seems to be more involved.

Battery aside (yes I know the Dealer and others on here are recommending replacement)....

The battery does NOT need to be “programmed”... that’s a new one (laughing).


The bigger questions should be:
1) Why did the fuse short?
2) Why are they recommending that the entire fuse box be replaced (unless I’m not reading the replies correctly)...

So if the fuse popped - then somehow the system was shorted. Was the car incorrectly jumped after it sat on the side of the road? That could cause a blown fuse.

Did a harness or fusible link fail - causing the short? Does that explain replacement of the fuse box itself? Not sure on this one, because I’ve never heard of a fuse that can’t be changed unless the entire fuse box is replaced... can you imagine people all over the world going into a parts store needing to buy an entire fuse box to replace a single fuse?

BTW, what’s your Service Writer smoking, because it’s some good shit (for him) that makes for some wild repair explanations.

I do know that the main terminals for the battery and other cables are on the side of the fuse box under the hood... IF the car was improperly jumped or jumper cables left on improperly, my guess is it would be entirely possible that due to the improper connection, the terminal block surrounding plastic could have melted causing the block to come in contact with other metal, thus causing a major fault. It’s also possible that the terminal block fused metal together IF again the car was improperly jumped....

What your Service Center is telling you isn’t making sense (at least not how it’s being relayed back on here).

I also don’t think replacement of the fuse box would be under $600 including parts and R&R labor hours - when most dealerships are charging $90+ an hour for labor alone. Add in say $120-$140 for the battery cost... it’s not adding up when they’re saying they are replacing the entire fuse box. Maybe it could add up, but just quick estimate and location of the part and how’s its interconnected - seems to be more involved.

The shop foreman showed me a printed out electrical diagram. Its the type you would have for electrical circuits (zig zags on lines etc). It had 2 boxes. One box is battery and other box is PCM. Each box has 2 lines going in/out. He circled the line leaving the battery and he said there is no power on that line. He said 120 amp fuse is blown and its part of the box.

 

[FDHog]

What the hell would cause 120amp fuse to blow, would be my main concern.

 

[UnhandledException]

Put a new motorcraft battery (470 crank amp), same issue.....

 

[Tank]

Put a new motorcraft battery (470 crank amp), same issue.....

Sorry to hear.

I checked the Owners and Supplemental Manuals. Nothing unique from standard jump-starting procedures are stipulated.

I know you’re well into the process at this time but consider asking them to show you the diagnostic decision trees they’re following if you have a chance.

Like others have said, there’s got to be a reason all that went South and if the underlying issue isn’t resolved then it’s bound to happen again..

 

[UnhandledException]

Also what puzzles me is if there was some short like this, how come everything else works? There is so much that car does electronically, headlights, stereo, A/C, doors, etc. everything works fine but only those systems dont.

 

[Tank]

Also what puzzles me is if there was some short like this, how come everything else works? There is so much that car does electronically, headlights, stereo, A/C, doors, etc. everything works fine but only those systems dont.

How many circuits are coming from the battery? One, per your report of what the foreman said, is shot. Others may be good.

I don’t have the diagrams w me but it seems they are saying a subsystem is fried, not the whole system.

 

[WildHorse]

He said 120 amp fuse is blown and its part of the box.

What 120 amp fuse? Largest is 60 amp. Also, the PCM gets power from #22, which is 10 amp.

 

[UnhandledException]

It may be PSCM not PCM.

He definitely said “main fuse 120 amp”

 

[WildHorse]

It may be PSCM not PCM.

He definitely said “main fuse 120 amp”

Well the PSCM is : #64 - 5 amp. IIRC. Unless I'm totally oblivious to something here.

 

[JAJ]

The blown fuse is a mystery. The chassis electrical diagram I have shows a 125 Amp fuse on the fuse block that powers exactly one thing - the Power Steering Control Module (PSCM). If that dude's open, the PSCM still has power on the second small connector to run its computer and send out an SOS message that it has no power on the main connector. The BCM responds to this by sending out CAN bus messages shutting down a bunch of other modules; it's programmed to do that ("load shedding") to protect what it thinks is a weak battery. So, your experience isn't out of line with what the car would do if the 125 amp fuse was blown.

As for "programming the battery", it's real. Here's what the factory Service Manual says about it: "If installing a new battery, use the scan tool to carry out the Battery Monitoring System (BMS) reset after the battery is connected" and it also says "If the BMS Reset is not carried out, it [the BCM] holds the old battery parameters and time in service counter in memory. Additionally it tells the system the battery is in an aged state and may limit the Electrical Energy Management system functions."

 

[UnhandledException]

Where exactly is that 125 amp fuse? Can I change it myself?

 

[WildHorse]

"If installing a new battery, use the scan tool to carry out the Battery Monitoring System (BMS) reset after the battery is connected"

Let it sit overnight (or 8 hours) It'll reset itself.

 

[Inthehighdesert]

I don’t have a service manual in front of me to tell you the location. But, you absolutely should be able to change it, that’s the purpose of the fuse. Call the parts department and ask them if they have it in stock. Also have them email you the parts diagram which will show you the location. What the service manager is telling you is like me telling one of my customers they need there panel replaced in there home because they tripped the dryer circuit. Makes noo sense. I doubt you have another issue. I’m bett’n the jumper used accidentally touched the wrong spot and popped it. It sure sounds likemthere trying to push hours for a simple repair.

Where exactly is that 125 amp fuse? Can I change it myself?

 

[UnhandledException]

The blown fuse is a mystery. The chassis electrical diagram I have shows a 125 Amp fuse on the fuse block that powers exactly one thing - the Power Steering Control Module (PSCM). If that dude's open, the PSCM still has power on the second small connector to run its computer and send out an SOS message that it has no power on the main connector. The BCM responds to this by sending out CAN bus messages shutting down a bunch of other modules; it's programmed to do that ("load shedding") to protect what it thinks is a weak battery. So, your experience isn't out of line with what the car would do if the 125 amp fuse was blown.

As for "programming the battery", it's real. Here's what the factory Service Manual says about it: "If installing a new battery, use the scan tool to carry out the Battery Monitoring System (BMS) reset after the battery is connected" and it also says "If the BMS Reset is not carried out, it [the BCM] holds the old battery parameters and time in service counter in memory. Additionally it tells the system the battery is in an aged state and may limit the Electrical Energy Management system functions."

thank you. That is the diagram I was showed and exact explanation matches 90% of what you are saying.

Can I change this fuse myself? What part would it be?

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