Will Trump be impeached?

[Stage_3]

Technically he has not been impeached. Yet.

^^BINGO!!!
He's had "charges" brought against him, that's about it. The Senate votes on actual impeachment.

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[BlackandBlue]

I decided for the sake of my sanity to remove myself from this thread quite some time ago. That said I've been following it and really enjoy the banter between Bill & GTPony.

Jay, you are spot on. The hatred you mention existed before the 2016 election but it certainly has gotten much worse in the past three years. I had friends that I used to be able to have a civil conversation with but now it's impossible. The two sides are so entrenched that no one can hear one another.

I do have one hypothetical though. It the Dem’s were to allow Schiff, and Hunter & Joe Biden to testify would the Republicans allow Mulvaney, Bolton, and Pompeo to do the same?

No skin in the game, just wondering.

I really don’t know. I have been reading this guys blog for years. He has great insights and his opinion section is very good.

1. The Senate can choose to end the witch hunt without a trial. All that takes is 51 votes and there are 53 Republican Senators who might just wish to throw this away immediately.
2. Trump favors a circus. Amusingly, so does Pelosi. There are people on all sides that want to call witnesses. Pelosi hopes this will backfire on Trump. But Trump believes it will backfire on Biden and the Democrats. Both sides cannot be right.
3. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell wants a trial but no witnesses. It would be over in about the length of time it takes to strike a gavel plus a few Republican speeches of unknown length mocking the trial.

https://moneymaven.io/mishtalk/econ...-in-an-interesting-way-BT5h28r4xUm6--UvR6zE-g

Btw he mostly writes financial blog. He calls them like he sees them.

 

[BlackandBlue]

^^BINGO!!!
He's had "charges" brought against him, that's about it. The Senate votes on actual impeachment.

Technically impeachment is done as soon as the announcement is made in the senate and the gavel is brought down.

Impeachment at this point is the same as a grand jury. The jury brought up charges. The house leader(DA) now gets to decide if she wants to transmit the charges to the house. IE press charges. This would constitute actually charging him.

After he is charged he will either be acquitted or convicted.

So for all this circus nothing has actually happened.

 

[GT Pony]

Read the PDF links under "Constitutional Authority". Website is right from the US Senate.
https://www.senate.gov/reference/Index/Impeachment.htm

Although the term “impeachment” is commonly used to refer to the removal of a government official from office, the impeachment process, as described in the Constitution, entails two distinct proceedings carried out by the separate houses of Congress. First, a simple majority of the House impeaches—or formally approves allegations of wrong doing amounting to an impeachable offense, known as articles of impeachment. The articles of impeachment are then forwarded to the Senate where the second proceeding takes place: an impeachment trial. If the Senate, by vote of a two-thirds majority, convicts the official of the alleged offenses, the result is removal from office of those still in office, and, at the Senate’s discretion, disqualification from holding future office.

The House impeaches (the official charges of offenses - Abuse of Power and Obstruction of Congress in Trump's case). The Senate convicts or acquits the impeachment charges bases on an impeachment trial. Being officially impeached means you've been officially charged with offenses by the House. You can't even get to the Senate trial without being officially impeached by the House. So technically, Trump has been officially impeached.

Many people have the misconception that you have to be convinced and removed from office to be officially impeached. You don't ... you get officially impeached in the House, and once officially impeached it then goes to the Senate trial for conviction or acquittal of the official impeachment charges.

 

[BlackandBlue]

Read the PDF links under "Constitutional Authority". Website is right from the US Senate.
https://www.senate.gov/reference/Index/Impeachment.htm

Although the term “impeachment” is commonly used to refer to the removal of a government official from office, the impeachment process, as described in the Constitution, entails two distinct proceedings carried out by the separate houses of Congress. First, a simple majority of the House impeaches—or formally approves allegations of wrong doing amounting to an impeachable offense, known as articles of impeachment. The articles of impeachment are then forwarded to the Senate where the second proceeding takes place: an impeachment trial. If the Senate, by vote of a two-thirds majority, convicts the official of the alleged offenses, the result is removal from office of those still in office, and, at the Senate’s discretion, disqualification from holding future office.

The House impeaches (the official charges of offenses - Abuse of Power and Obstruction of Congress in Trump's case). The Senate convicts or acquits the impeachment charges bases on an impeachment trial. Being officially impeached means you've been officially charged with offenses by the House. You can't even get to the Senate trial without being officially impeached by the House. So technically, Trump has been officially impeached.

Many people have the misconception that you have to be convinced and removed from office to be officially impeached. You don't ... you get officially impeached in the House, and once officially impeached it then goes to the Senate trial for conviction or acquittal of the official impeachment charges.

Feldman, who testified in front of the House Judiciary Committee's impeachment proceedings earlier this month, argues in a Bloomberg Op-Ed that the framers' definition of impeachment "assumed that impeachment was a process, not just a House vote," and that "Strictly speaking, "impeachment" occurred – and occurs -- when the articles of impeachment are presented to the Senate for trial. And at that point, the Senate is obliged by the Constitution to hold a trial."

If the House does not communicate its impeachment to the Senate, it hasn’t actually impeached the president. If the articles are not transmitted, Trump could legitimately say that he wasn’t truly impeached at all.

That’s because “impeachment” under the Constitution means the House sending its approved articles of to the Senate, with House managers standing up in the Senate and saying the president is impeached.

As for the headlines we saw after the House vote saying, “TRUMP IMPEACHED,” those are a media shorthand, not a technically correct legal statement. So far, the House has voted to impeach (future tense) Trump. He isn’t impeached (past tense) until the articles go to the Senate and the House members deliver the message. -Noah Feldman

I’m not a Harvard law professor but he is. Argue with him.

 

[GT Pony]

Feldman, who testified in front of the House Judiciary Committee's impeachment proceedings earlier this month, argues in a Bloomberg Op-Ed that the framers' definition of impeachment "assumed that impeachment was a process, not just a House vote," and that "Strictly speaking, "impeachment" occurred – and occurs -- when the articles of impeachment are presented to the Senate for trial. And at that point, the Senate is obliged by the Constitution to hold a trial."

If the House does not communicate its impeachment to the Senate, it hasn’t actually impeached the president. If the articles are not transmitted, Trump could legitimately say that he wasn’t truly impeached at all.

That’s because “impeachment” under the Constitution means the House sending its approved articles of to the Senate, with House managers standing up in the Senate and saying the president is impeached.

As for the headlines we saw after the House vote saying, “TRUMP IMPEACHED,” those are a media shorthand, not a technically correct legal statement. So far, the House has voted to impeach (future tense) Trump. He isn’t impeached (past tense) until the articles go to the Senate and the House members deliver the message. -Noah Feldman

I’m not a Harvard law professor but he is. Argue with him.

If you read the info on the US Senate link I gave above, I see nothing that says articles of impeachment can be "withdrawn" by the House. And for bjstang, there is nothing I can find that says the articles of impeachment have to be submitted for trial by a certain time, or when the trial has to start after the impeachment happens by the House. You think all these chess moves on both sides aren't looked at first from a rules/laws viewpoint? ... don't be naive.

How I read it all, is once the official articles of impeachment are official, the next step in the process is the Senate trial. There has never been any impeachment that has not gone to a Senate trial except for the 3 guys that were impeached who resigned before the Senate trial took place (info in one of those PDFs in the US Senate link). There wouldn't be any real reason to not move on to the trial when the time is right.

And the 3 guys who resigned are still considered to have been officially impeached without ever going to Senate trial, so that just enforces the fact that you don't have to go to trial to make the impeachment official.

 

[GT Pony]

Didn't mean to hurt my TZV infected snowflake buddy ... sorry man, can I send you a new Trumpy Bear to make it up to you? You'd feel better holding two at once.

PS - you're still wrong on your misconception that Trump has not been officially impeached.

 

[GT Pony]

I have claimed that Trump is getting what he deserves at this moment in time - he's the dumb ass (along with Rudy and others under his power) that caused his own problems. You forget I lean right, I'm a repulsed right leaner. I know that really confuses you and you can't make your brain wrap around that at all. With you, it's gotta be 4 sigma right (goose stepping) or nothing. Anyone that's less than that is the "enemy of Trump" in your eyes. I read you man, it's not hard to see you're a radical with respect to Trump. Exactly the kind of guy he want's bending the knee before him forever.

 

[BlackandBlue]

If you read the info on the US Senate link I gave above, I see nothing that says articles of impeachment can be "withdrawn" by the House. How I read it all, is once the official articles of impeachment are official, the next step in the process is the Senate trial. There has never been any impeachment that has not gone to a Senate trial except for the 3 guys who resigned before the Senate trial took place (info in one of those PDFs in the US Senate link). There wouldn't be any real reason to not move on to the trial when the time is right.

Sounds like what could be said is there is just not a lot of precedent here. I would image there is just not any case law for impeachment.

That said, impeachment law seems to be very vague in many different ways.

If Nancy Pelosi never turns the articles over to the Senate is Trump indefinitely impeached? Or does impeachment actually happen after the senate receives them?

Does the sixth amendment factor into this at all if he is already impeached? Or by waiting and not turning them over does Trump not have this right?

People are getting tired of this though. The poll numbers are starting to look very bad. Let’s hope this comes to a conclusion soon.

 

[Bikeman315]

along with Rudy

By the way, I voted for Rudy Giuliani in 1994 back when I lived in New York City. He was a hell of a US attorney, although many really disliked him. I move to NJ in 95' but was very glad i voted for him on 9/11. He really was an excellent mayor.

I do not know who this person is that I now see on the TV. He certainly is not the man I remember as mayor of NYC. By the way Rudy was originally a Democrat and a Liberal. Go figure.

 

[GT Pony]

Sounds like what could be said is there is just not a lot of precedent here. I would image there is just not any case law for impeachment.

That said, impeachment law seems to be very vague in many different ways.

If Nancy Pelosi never turns the articles over to the Senate is Trump indefinitely impeached? Or does impeachment actually happen after the senate receives them?

Does the sixth amendment factor into this at all if he is already impeached? Or by waiting and not turning them over does Trump not have this right?

People are getting tired of this though. The poll numbers are starting to look very bad. Let’s hope this comes to a conclusion soon.

In that Senate website PDF, the 3 guys who resigned are still considered to have been officially impeached without ever going to Senate trial, so that just enforces the fact that you don't have to go to trial to make the impeachment official.

Those two PDFs in the US Senate link give a lot of info about the process and rules involved - and info on past impeachments and trials. I'm sure there are other official documents somewhere. But yeah, I have to agree there seems to be a lot of "wiggle room" in the whole process.

 

[GT Pony]

By the way, I voted for Rudy Giuliani in 1994 back when I lived in New York City. He was a hell of a US attorney, although many really disliked him. I move to NJ in 95' but was very glad i voted for him on 9/11. He really was an excellent mayor.

I do not know who this person is that I now see on the TV. He certainly is not the man I remember as mayor of NYC. By the way Rudy was originally a Democrat and a Liberal. Go figure.

He's been infected with the TZV, and is even more power hungry as a result than he was back then.

 

[GT Pony]

Actually, the booze and air is great here ... the ever transformation into another f*#ked California II is not so great ... as I've mentioned before.

Sorry I hurt your and your Masters feelings ... it's all fun until someone gets hurt.

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