Sponsored

Will Trump be impeached?

Will Trump be impeached?


  • Total voters
    229
Status
Not open for further replies.

BlackandBlue

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
871
Reaction score
834
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
Mustang
That's exactly how Trump and his supporters operate. Just like when ol' Bill continually believes that someone actually has to commit a federal crime to be impeached because he's been told that by his Master and fellow followers. Then he sees that's not the case from experts who might lean left, and it becomes false information. Then he sees the same exact info from someone who leans right, and it's all good and true information and he eats crow. :giggle:
The decision by the Supreme Court to review the lower court rulings involving congressional and prosecution subpoenas directed toward President Trump undercuts the second article of impeachment that passed the House Judiciary Committee along party lines last week.

That second article of impeachment charges President Trump with obstruction of Congress for refusing to comply with congressional subpoenas in the absence of a final court order. In so charging him, the House Judiciary Committee has arrogated to itself the power to decide the validity of its subpoenas, as well as the power to determine whether claims of executive privilege must be recognized, both powers that properly belong with the judicial branch of our government, not the legislative branch. The House of Representatives will do likewise, if it votes to approve the articles, as is expected to occur on Wednesday.

President Trump has asserted that the executive branch, of which he is the head, need not comply with congressional subpoenas requiring the production of privileged executive material, unless there is a final court order compelling such production. He has argued, appropriately, that the judicial branch is the ultimate arbiter of conflicts between the legislative and executive branches. Therefore, the Supreme Court decision to review these three cases, in which lower courts ruled against President Trump, provides support for his constitutional arguments in the investigation.

The cases that are being reviewed are not identical to the challenged subpoenas that form the basis for the second article of impeachment. One involves authority of the New York district attorney to subpoena the financial records of a sitting president, as part of any potential criminal investigation. The others involve authority of legislative committees to subpoena records as part of any ongoing congressional investigations.

But they are close enough. Even if the high court were eventually to rule against the claims by President Trump, the fact that the justices decided to hear them, in effect, supports his constitutional contention that he had the right to challenge congressional subpoenas in court, or to demand that those issuing the subpoenas seek to enforce them through court.

It undercuts the contention by House Democrats that President Trump committed an impeachable offense by insisting on a court order before sending possibly privileged material to Congress. Even before the justices granted review of these cases, the two articles of impeachment had no basis in the Constitution. They were a reflection of the comparative voting power of the two parties, precisely what one of the founders, Alexander Hamilton, warned would be the “greatest danger” of an impeachment.

House Democrats should seriously consider dropping this second article in light of the recent Supreme Court action. In fairness, this development involving the high court occurred after Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee made up their minds to include obstruction of Congress as an impeachment article. Yet the new circumstances give some Democratic members of Congress, who may end up paying an electoral price if they support the House Judiciary Committee recommendation, meaningful reason for voting against at least one of the articles of impeachment.

It would be a smart way out for those Democrats. More important, it would be the right thing for them to do. It would be smart and right because, as matters now stand, the entire process smacks of partisanship, with little concern for the precedential impact which these articles could have on future impeachments. If a few more Democrats voted in a way that would demonstrate greater nuanced recognition that, at the least, the second article of impeachment represents an overreach based on current law, it would lend an aura of some nonpartisan legitimacy to the proceedings.

The first article goes too far in authorizing impeachment based on the vague criterion of abuse of power. But it is the second article that truly endangers our system of checks and balances and the important role of the courts as the umpires between the legislative and executive branches under the Constitution. It would serve the national interest for thoughtful and independent minded Democrats to join Republicans in voting against the second article of impeachment, even if they wrongly vote for the first.

The legislative branch has no power to compel a subpoena. That would be the judicial branch. Second article is dead. Along with your argument.
Sponsored

 

GT Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2015
Threads
77
Messages
9,402
Reaction score
4,839
Location
Pacific NW
Vehicle(s)
2015 GT Premium, Black w/Saddle, 19s, NAV
The legislative branch has no power to compel a subpoena. That would be the judicial branch. Second article is dead. Along with your argument.
If your talking about my argument, I wasn't arguing the validity of the impeachment charges or the legality of the executive brance ignoring subpoenas.

I was commenting on the fact that someone doesn't have to commit a federal crime to be impeached since so many think that's a truism and keep mistakenly parroting it (ie, bjstang). And it was really focused around how the brainwashed discount every source of information that comes from SMEs that might be leaning left. So everything you cut and pasted is just a straw storm to what I was focusing on, which is the fact that a federal crime does not have to be committed to be impeached.
 

GT Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2015
Threads
77
Messages
9,402
Reaction score
4,839
Location
Pacific NW
Vehicle(s)
2015 GT Premium, Black w/Saddle, 19s, NAV
I'm sure the cult will have the Master's filter turned up to 10, lol. Everyone ignoring a Congressional subpoena is not cooperating with the lawful authority of Congress. If they do that, they are obstructing Congress.

What is a congressional subpoena?
Congress has broad authority, established by Supreme Court rulings, to oversee the executive branch and conduct investigations. As part of these powers, Congress can request documents or ask witnesses to testify.

I can see why the 2nd article of impeachment is what it is based on the fact that Congress by law has the authority to oversee the executive branch and conduct investigations.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/how-do-congressional-subpoenas-work

"Another possible remedy is for Congress to file a civil lawsuit in federal court, requesting a judge to order compliance with the subpoena. This, however, can take months or years to resolve."

This is the main reason Trump told everyone to ignore the subpoenas, for two reasons: 1) To prevent anyone from divulging more evidence against him, and 2) to buy as much time as possible.
 

EcoVert

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 28, 2016
Threads
94
Messages
3,447
Reaction score
1,858
Location
W.VA
Vehicle(s)
2015 Ecoboost convertible
Vehicle Showcase
4
It would be a smart way out for those Democrats. More important, it would be the right thing for them to do.
The democrats head long rush into trying to over throw the elected leader of our country has thrown out any chance of smart thinking or any chance they'll do the right thing.

The first article goes too far in authorizing impeachment based on the vague criterion of abuse of power. But it is the second article that truly endangers our system of checks and balances and the important role of the courts as the umpires between the legislative and executive branches under the Constitution.
This just shows the democrats are trying to take power by any means and become the Socialist leaders of our once free country.
 

watisthis

Banned
Banned
Banned
Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Threads
25
Messages
1,423
Reaction score
687
Location
Odenton, MD
First Name
Justin
Vehicle(s)
2015 GT Pro-charged
The democrats head long rush into trying to over throw the elected leader of our country has thrown out any chance of smart thinking or any chance they'll do the right thing.



This just shows the democrats are trying to take power by any means and become the Socialist leaders of our once free country.
Do the right thing? How many fucking people have been arrested since the Mueller investigation? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Counsel_investigation_(2017–2019) Who the fuck needs to do the right thing again?

There have been 15 Democratic presidents and 13 Republican presidents and not once have we had a socialistic country. Stop reading rightwing propaganda and have a little constructive criticism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_United_States
 

Sponsored

BlackandBlue

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
871
Reaction score
834
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
Mustang
I'm sure the cult will have the Master's filter turned up to 10, lol. Everyone ignoring a Congressional subpoena is not cooperating with the lawful authority of Congress. If they do that, they are obstructing Congress.

What is a congressional subpoena?
Congress has broad authority, established by Supreme Court rulings, to oversee the executive branch and conduct investigations. As part of these powers, Congress can request documents or ask witnesses to testify.

I can see why the 2nd article of impeachment is what it is based on the fact that Congress by law has the authority to oversee the executive branch and conduct investigations.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/how-do-congressional-subpoenas-work

"Another possible remedy is for Congress to file a civil lawsuit in federal court, requesting a judge to order compliance with the subpoena. This, however, can take months or years to resolve."

This is the main reason Trump told everyone to ignore the subpoenas, for two reasons: 1) To prevent anyone from divulging more evidence against him, and 2) to buy as much time as possible.
Congress can request. Request is legally the same as asking.

So the second article is unconstitutional only because they don’t have that authority.

If the dems back out of impeachment and make up some excuse will you say you were wrong for accusing Trump of all this stuff?

Or will you just turn the filter up to ten?[/QUOTE]
 

BlackandBlue

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
871
Reaction score
834
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
Mustang
Do the right thing? How many fucking people have been arrested since the Mueller investigation? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Counsel_investigation_(2017–2019) Who the fuck needs to do the right thing again?

There have been 15 Democratic presidents and 13 Republican presidents and not once have we had a socialistic country. Stop reading rightwing propaganda and have a little constructive criticism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_presidents_of_the_United_States

How many of those were arrested for election tampering? Zero

Remember that two years you believed Trump was going to jail? They lied to you.

My dad always said “When people figure out they can vote themselves money democracy is dead”.

That’s todays free sh*t army democrats.
 

watisthis

Banned
Banned
Banned
Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Threads
25
Messages
1,423
Reaction score
687
Location
Odenton, MD
First Name
Justin
Vehicle(s)
2015 GT Pro-charged
How many of those were arrested for election tampering? Zero

Remember that two years you believed Trump was going to jail? They lied to you.

My dad always said “When people figure out they can vote themselves money democracy is dead”.

That’s todays free sh*t army democrats.
What does election tampering have to do with this? If I run a company and all my right hand men are getting arrested for lying and company finance fraud you're going to start looking at me too. It's a lot like how the New York mob family worked.

I didn't assume he was going to jail, what? I let legal procedures determine guilt or innocence.

Your dad was right, thus why we have a corporatism problem. See: the Sacklers, the Kochs, Robert Murdoch, Robert Mercer, Mark Zuckerberg, George Soroes, and the like.

No, that is right wing propaganda. Almost every politician is in someones pocket, or can be bought, this is not a left problem it is an everyone problem. Get big money out of politics and we'll most likely see a better form of governance.
 

BlackandBlue

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
871
Reaction score
834
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
Mustang
What does election tampering have to do with this? If I run a company and all my right hand men are getting arrested for lying and company finance fraud you're going to start looking at me too. It's a lot like how the New York mob family worked.

I didn't assume he was going to jail, what? I let legal procedures determine guilt or innocence.

Your dad was right, thus why we have a corporatism problem. See: the Sacklers, the Kochs, Robert Murdoch, Robert Mercer, Mark Zuckerberg, George Soroes, and the like.

No, that is right wing propaganda. Almost every politician is in someones pocket, or can be bought, this is not a left problem it is an everyone problem. Get big money out of politics and we'll most likely see a better form of governance.
My insurance was 155 in 2010.

Today it’s 1127 a month.

Don’t talk to me about corporatism.

Nancy Pelosi Says Obamacare Must be Passed to ‘Find Out What Is in It’.

Trump hasn’t cost me a 100k yet.
 

watisthis

Banned
Banned
Banned
Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Threads
25
Messages
1,423
Reaction score
687
Location
Odenton, MD
First Name
Justin
Vehicle(s)
2015 GT Pro-charged
My insurance was 155 in 2010.

Today it’s 1127 a month.

Don’t talk to me about corporatism.

Nancy Pelosi Says Obamacare Must be Passed to ‘Find Out What Is in It’.

Trump hasn’t cost me a 100k yet.
Well I have no idea what you're talking about and I would need further information to help you get to the root of your problem.

Start learning how taxes and 'tax cuts' work? https://itep.org

Currently we have socialism for the rich, https://itep.org/the-35-percent-corporate-tax-myth/

https://prospect.org/power/two-biggest-lies-donald-trump-s-tax-plan/
"If President Trump’s middle-class tax cuts are a complicated mix of cuts and increases in the short run, the longer-term picture is quite clear: Trump will increase personal income taxes on just about everyone. After 2025, when every last one of the new law’s tax cuts for individuals will expire, the only remaining effect of the Tax Act on working families will be an across-the-board tax increase, thanks to the new law’s (permanent) adoption of a less-generous measure of inflation. Each of the tax breaks middle-income families rely on, from exemptions to deductions, will gradually lose their value over time. And when taxpayers file their 2026 income tax returns, they’ll be paying hundreds of dollars more than they would have if Trump’s plans hadn’t been enacted. Needless to say, the corporate tax cuts in the new law have a much longer shelf life. Virtually all of the corporate cuts are permanent."

So basically a lot of middle class households are going to pay for their 'tax cuts' from the early years of the trump tax plan to the tune of thousands and thousands of dollars in the long run.
 

Sponsored

BlackandBlue

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
871
Reaction score
834
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
Mustang
Well I have no idea what you're talking about and I would need further information to help you get to the root of your problem.

Start learning how taxes and 'tax cuts' work? https://itep.org

Currently we have socialism for the rich, https://itep.org/the-35-percent-corporate-tax-myth/

https://prospect.org/power/two-biggest-lies-donald-trump-s-tax-plan/
"If President Trump’s middle-class tax cuts are a complicated mix of cuts and increases in the short run, the longer-term picture is quite clear: Trump will increase personal income taxes on just about everyone. After 2025, when every last one of the new law’s tax cuts for individuals will expire, the only remaining effect of the Tax Act on working families will be an across-the-board tax increase, thanks to the new law’s (permanent) adoption of a less-generous measure of inflation. Each of the tax breaks middle-income families rely on, from exemptions to deductions, will gradually lose their value over time. And when taxpayers file their 2026 income tax returns, they’ll be paying hundreds of dollars more than they would have if Trump’s plans hadn’t been enacted. Needless to say, the corporate tax cuts in the new law have a much longer shelf life. Virtually all of the corporate cuts are permanent."

So basically a lot of middle class households are going to pay for their 'tax cuts' from the early years of the trump tax plan to the tune of thousands and thousands of dollars in the long run.

I will break it down for you.

Horrible healthcare law passed.

Democrats increased my healthcare cost tremendously.

They have no clue what they passed. Ask Pelosi.

You defer to how Trump helped the rich and will hurt the poor in 5 years.

You most likely are not self employed and no clue how healthcare cost work.

Btw my deductible was $250 in 2010. Today it’s $6750.
 

watisthis

Banned
Banned
Banned
Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Threads
25
Messages
1,423
Reaction score
687
Location
Odenton, MD
First Name
Justin
Vehicle(s)
2015 GT Pro-charged
I will break it down for you.

Horrible healthcare law passed.

Democrats increased my healthcare cost tremendously.

They have no clue what they passed. Ask Pelosi.

You defer to how Trump helped the rich and will hurt the poor in 5 years.

You most likely are not self employed and no clue how healthcare cost work.

Btw my deductible was $250 in 2010. Today it’s $6750.
No, I have government and employer healthcare. However, I do understand a bit how our system works. Please fill me in if I'm missing anything.

The main cost control provision of the ACA, the public option, was removed from the bill so that we could get it passed thanks to republicans and the required 60 votes needed. Secondly, although premiums and deductible are continuing to rise, they are doing so at a slower rate than before the ACA, apparently not in your case though, lol. Again I would need to know more about your situation. Starting last year, we saw rates start to increase faster because of the other cost cutting measures Trump has ended via executive order. So both sides really screwed the pooch here. Dems by not reigning in insurance companies and by under estimating how many people would buy into the ACA. Reps killed reimbursements and sabotaged exchanges. Lose lose for everyone sadly.
 

BlackandBlue

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2019
Threads
17
Messages
871
Reaction score
834
Location
Texas
Vehicle(s)
Mustang
I will admit healthcare has been broken since Medicare/Medicaid was created. As soon as the government gets involved in anything cost spiral. Another example is government backed college loans.

Single payer/government healthcare would be a disaster. Ask Canadian or English about their system. They answer is it’s great if you don’t need it quickly.

The preexisting condition clause is what destroyed cost. Health people paying as much as obese/unhealthy people is the true problem.

Another oversight of Obamacare was expecting the young to subsidize the old. The reality is the young just didn’t get insurance because they didn’t need it. This lowering/capping of old folks rates without the offsetting of younger people paying a high rate left a huge hole in the cost.

Besides that Obamacare but huge burdens on small hospitals and clinics with massive labor involved with coding and administrative requirements. Larger hospitals have the ability to scale and offset cost. This decreases profit margins on smaller business and opens them to mergers/buyouts from larger hospitals. The healthcare industry is consolidating at an alarming rate. The extinction of smaller hospitals is going to happen.

Trump has done several good things to reign in cost. Making hospitals post preciouses prices on their website. Require drug companies to show drug prices when advertising drugs.

The biggest yet is making insurance companies and providers list the prices they negotiate. The deals are closely guarded and very hidden. This one has tremendous opposition but would level the playing ground between smaller insurers and larger ones. Completion is the goal.

The hate I have toward the democrats has to do with the fact they actually hurt me. They cost me a large amount of money every month.

My premiums go up between 6-12% every year. Some years much more.

You have been hurt by ACA you just don’t realize it. Increasing healthcare cost is raises you don’t get.
 

GT Pony

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2015
Threads
77
Messages
9,402
Reaction score
4,839
Location
Pacific NW
Vehicle(s)
2015 GT Premium, Black w/Saddle, 19s, NAV
I will break it down for you.

Horrible healthcare law passed.

Democrats increased my healthcare cost tremendously.
No health care plan, besides through an employer who pays most of the insurance cost for you as part of your compensation package, is going to be "cheap" to you. If you're self employed, you're basically paying what an employer is paying for an employee as part of their compensation package.

Trump really doesn't have a better alternative, because he would have killed the existing health care plan if he did. He just wanted to try and kill Obamacare because it was something Obama did. I haven't heard anything from Trump lately on his "better" health care plan.

Is there a better way to do it? ... probably, but it's not a simple problem to solve. Largest factor in order to cut health care insurance cost for everyone is to regulate the crazy high charges from health care providers and prescription drugs. That's a double edged sword, and maybe impossible to do unless the gov't wants to become the employer of all health care and drug suppliers and operate in the red like the USPS.

If you want cheaper or free health care then vote for Bernie. :cwl:
Sponsored

 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
 








Top