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Idaho2018GTPremium

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All incremental improvements on an already very well-tuned suspension and chassis. I can assure you that the majority of the pace difference between a CFTP and a base is tires.
If the tires were the main reason, why wouldn't Randy say that? I remember reading something that Billy Johnson wrote, saying the carbon fiber wheels would take a certain amount of time off the lap times all else equal (something like 1 or 2 seconds, can't remember exactly what he said). The aero is probably another second, with the tires about 2 seconds, is my guess, but would love for Randy or Billy to confirm.
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Idaho2018GTPremium

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You gotta love that little retard. :giggle::cwl::cwl::cwl:Today hes saying the GT500 is under rated to the tune of .900hp.
He's ONLY saying that because now he realizes the CFTP GT500 will likely be significantly faster around a track than the ZLE, contrary to what he has claimed all along (I haven't been to the sight in like 5 or 6 weeks so I wouldn't know what else he's saying since Randy drove the car at VIR). That way, when he learns it is actually faster, he can claim, "well it should be faster, it has like 900 hp!". He's insufferable.
 

BmacIL

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If the tires were the main reason, why wouldn't Randy say that? I remember reading something that Billy Johnson wrote, saying the carbon fiber wheels would take a certain amount of time off the lap times all else equal (something like 1 or 2 seconds, can't remember exactly what he said). The aero is probably another second, with the tires about 2 seconds, is my guess, but would love for Randy or Billy to confirm.
There's no way the wheels by themselves take that much off. 1 second is maybe believable.

It's amazing what people are willing to believe to justify the cost of their purchase. Add forged wheels, cup 2s and a functional wing like the GT4/CFTP one to a base with the handling package, and you're going to be within a driver's margin of error of the same laptime. The performance gap between the 19+ GT350 and R decreased dramatically with the switch to Cup 2s for both, not just the R. It's mostly tires, people. Tires.
 

Eritas

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There's no way the wheels by themselves take that much off. 1 second is maybe believable.

It's amazing what people are willing to believe to justify the cost of their purchase. Add forged wheels, cup 2s and a functional wing like the GT4/CFTP one to a base with the handling package, and you're going to be within a driver's margin of error of the same laptime. The performance gap between the 19+ GT350 and R decreased dramatically with the switch to Cup 2s for both, not just the R. It's mostly tires, people. Tires.
Drivers margin of error is 5-15 seconds or more. A pro can probably drive an Ecoboost faster than the majority can drive a gt500.
 

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BmacIL

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Drivers margin of error is 5-15 seconds or more. A pro can probably drive an Ecoboost faster than the majority can drive a gt500.
No doubt, but was assuming a certain level of competence.
 

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There's no way the wheels by themselves take that much off. 1 second is maybe believable.

It's amazing what people are willing to believe to justify the cost of their purchase. Add forged wheels, cup 2s and a functional wing like the GT4/CFTP one to a base with the handling package, and you're going to be within a driver's margin of error of the same laptime. The performance gap between the 19+ GT350 and R decreased dramatically with the switch to Cup 2s for both, not just the R. It's mostly tires, people. Tires.
Yeah, I found the post, he said about 1 second: "It's truly a shame to see GT350R owners shelve their carbon wheels, because they are a SIGNIFICANT part of the equation that makes the GT350R a world-class car, and quite special. They improve lap times by ~1 second over and equivalent weight Al wheel, and improve that turn-in feel, communication through the steering, and overall make the car perform better and feel lighter than it is, in ways that aluminum wheels cannot.

Sure you can put an equivalent weight (or a couple lbs heavier) aluminum wheel on the car, but it will be much softer (camber-loss from cornering), worse turn-in precision, and require more static camber to have the same grip when cornering (which hurts brake performance) and it will have more gyroscopic effect (despite being the same weight on the scale), and just cannot compare to the overall benefits of carbon fiber wheels.

The GT500 Track's carbon fiber wheels deliver similar improvements - making the car feel lighter, improving steering feel, communication through the wheel, cornering performance, etc..."

Yes, the tires are definitely a major part of the package, I think we all realize that. I don't think anyone would disagree that if you added forged wheels, cup2s, and a big wing, that car would be close to the CFTP car.
 

stanglife

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This debate always comes up and someone always gets butthurt because they want their non carbon
There's no way the wheels by themselves take that much off. 1 second is maybe believable.

It's amazing what people are willing to believe to justify the cost of their purchase. Add forged wheels, cup 2s and a functional wing like the GT4/CFTP one to a base with the handling package, and you're going to be within a driver's margin of error of the same laptime. The performance gap between the 19+ GT350 and R decreased dramatically with the switch to Cup 2s for both, not just the R. It's mostly tires, people. Tires.
Everyone thinks they are right and honestly, I've been seeing this same argument play out since the 350. People who bought the Non-R want to feel good and justify saving a few bucks by claiming that it's only tires or whatever...and people with Rs or CFTP want to justify their purchase by insisting that there's more to it. I'll just say this - I don't care if the non R 350 or the base 500 is 70..or even 95% of the top tier with tires. It has ALWAYS been that last 5% (or whatever number makes your butt hurt less) that is the most expensive and potentially even diminishing returns. As far as just tires - it's tires and the more aggressive tuning to take advantage of them, IMO ;)

These are all great cars...that said, I prefer the CFTP and 350R because of a number of reasons..that last 5% and certainly resale value..you can hardly argue that. I'll just say this:
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To those referring to the 350 being closer to the R with upgraded tires, the R time is from 2016 or so, and the 2019 with cup tires has minor suspension, abs, and aero changes that could also have benefit the R model if it was to be retested. Who knows what minor changes Michelin may have made over three years. The carbon wheels do look to be worth ~1 second at laguna.
 

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No one has mentioned the basic math of hp to weight ratio. The aero is a contributing factor, but for every one pound of rotating mass removed you gain of four pounds less the car needs to push, 1 to 4 ratio. Opposed to the 1 to 1 ratio of dead weight. With the weight saving of the Carbon Fiber wheels, you can brake later into the curves and accelerate faster off the curves. These factors combined with a 4000' straight section of track, a five second faster lap is mathematically feasible. It's all in the math. Let's all just enjoy how fast Ford has developed this platform since it's introduction in 2015.
 

mustangguy88

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If we look back at 2003 Cobra, for it's time it was a fantastic car, this GT500 is the new place holder What levels will be achieved with instant power, all wheel drive, electric powered Shelby combined with what is available now? That's really something to look forward to. It sounds crazy but it's coming.
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If we look back at 2003 Cobra, for it's time it was a fantastic car, this GT500 is the new place holder What levels will be achieved with instant power, all wheel drive, electric powered Shelby combined with what is available now? That's really something to look forward to. It sounds crazy but it's coming.
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The terminator is one of the few cars that's 16yrs old and can still hang with mild mods.
 

mustangguy88

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Like I mentioned, the 2003 and 2004 Corbra's were bench mark cars, this new Gt500 has raised the bar. The 2003 and 04 Cobra's 500 to 600hp was amazing. Now with a little knowledge and money 800hp is the new 500. A few years from now 1000hp will be the new 800.
 
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sdiver68

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Seems like everyone missed the track alignment on the CFTP. In a recent C8 track test they dropped over 2 seconds just doing the track alignment. Tires, another 2+ seconds.

Skip the CFTP, put on your track wheels/tires/alignment and it's drivers race. Or if you have the money and want the bragging rights factor...buy CFTP.
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