Are we just too demanding?

[BmacIL]

Ahem...you make it handle. The stock mustang in PP1 or euro spec is a mile away from where my personal car is, for instance. It's floppy, sloppy and inconsistent in comparison, and doesn't put power down anywhere near as well. GT350R-like handling and ~485-490 bhp.

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[BmacIL]

I think you'd be surprised. Only one way to know. Tires also make an enormous difference and are part of the equation.

 

[cib24]

I think savagegeese has a lot of relevant points although he is always comparing cars to his Ariel Atom or Honda S2000. Those are more pure sports cars than something like a Mustang is out of the box (double wishbones vs. macpherson strut among other details). Not every car is trying to be an Ariel Atom which is part of his problem as this is what he wants every car to be unless it's a designated SUV or commuter car.

The area I really don't agree with many on here about is build quality - whether that be paint, the way the car is put together or choice of materials. The standard for the Mustang is truly apalling. Thank goodness it has a relatively simple overall engineering design.

You don't have to look at BMW, Mercedes or some other non-American car manufacturer to see a difference in quality. Here in the UK you can clearly see the quality difference between a Ford Fiesta (which is built in Europe) and the Ford Mustang when you go to a dealership in the UK. The Fiesta has consistent panel gaps, better paint quality, better corrosion protection, and better fit and finish on the interior. The quality of materials are as cheap or cheaper than the Mustang but it's simply assembled and painted to a higher standard compared to cars that are built in Detroit just based on looking over those two cars in person. That shouldn't be acceptable if we are being honest, whether the car is $15,000, $40,000 or $100,000.

 

[Hack]

I'm not a fan of savagegeese. I feel like all he does is just rip on everything, and I mean EVERYTHING that he touches. I'm just trying to stay away from the cesspool that is the YouTube car community all together to be honest.

I agree with this. I get a feeling he's saying that he's too cool to own a Mustang. And he's too cool for most everything else as well. He has good insights into cars, but that arrogance is the thing that annoys me.

I think savagegeese has a lot of relevant points although he is always comparing cars to his Ariel Atom or Honda S2000. Those are more pure sports cars than something like a Mustang is out of the box (double wishbones vs. macpherson strut among other details). Not every car is trying to be an Ariel Atom which is part of his problem as this is what he wants every car to be unless it's a designated SUV or commuter car.

The area I really don't agree with many on here about is build quality - whether that be paint, the way the car is put together or choice of materials. The standard for the Mustang is truly apalling. Thank goodness it has a relatively simple overall engineering design.

You don't have to look at BMW, Mercedes or some other non-American car manufacturer to see a difference in quality. Here in the UK you can clearly see the quality difference between a Ford Fiesta (which is built in Europe) and the Ford Mustang when you go to a dealership in the UK. The Fiesta has consistent panel gaps, better paint quality, better corrosion protection, and better fit and finish on the interior. The quality of materials are as cheap or cheaper than the Mustang but it's simply assembled and painted to a higher standard compared to cars that are built in Detroit just based on looking over those two cars in person. That shouldn't be acceptable if we are being honest, whether the car is $15,000, $40,000 or $100,000.

I think it's the appearance/reputation or being cool in some way that influences him the most. I felt he was pretty hard on the 2004 Z06 when he did a review recently. And that car has double wishbone suspension. IMO it's a pretty great car if you like chassis as a high priority. I think the engine isn't the greatest and there are other flaws (I really miss my GT350), but I just can't imagine that S2000 being more fun to drive and higher quality than a Corvette.

I agree Mustang build quality as far as appearance goes isn't the greatest, but that isn't my priority in a car. I think the car has great performance for the price. Performance for the price is my priority.

Now if I lived in Europe I'd probably be in a Porsche or BMW, since they are way cheaper over there and the Mustang is a lot more expensive in Europe. All of that really changes the decision for me. Here the Porsche costs ~3x the Mustang, so it's hard to justify.

 

[cib24]

@Hack

Fair points. I thought the 2004 Z06 had leaf springs? I'm sure I saw those in the savagegeese video.

Anyway, back to the point about the Mustang. I was trying to make it clearer that you don't need to compare to Porsche or BMW. Ford's own Fiesta built in Europe has far higher paint and assembly quality than the Mustang built in Detroit. Same company, different employees in different locations that obviously have different standards of management. I wish Ford could make those standards consistent across all of their models no matter where the cars are physically built.

 

[nastang87xx]

I agree with this. I get a feeling he's saying that he's too cool to own a Mustang. And he's too cool for most everything else as well. He has good insights into cars, but that arrogance is the thing that annoys me.

Yes. It's like he's taking Jeremy Clarkson way too seriously and translating that into a stoic persona and Jeremy doesn't even take himself seriously. He actually has stated multiple times the rip on American cars is all for the content but he actually has liked them for quite a while regardless of the criticisms.

 

[nastang87xx]

@Hack

Fair points. I thought the 2004 Z06 had leaf springs? I'm sure I saw those in the savagegeese video.

It has A leaf spring. It's a transverse setup where the leaf runs side to side, not a spring pack that runs laterally. Don't confuse the Vette's spring system with that of say a pickup truck.

 

[Hack]

@Hack

Fair points. I thought the 2004 Z06 had leaf springs? I'm sure I saw those in the savagegeese video.

Anyway, back to the point about the Mustang. I was trying to make it clearer that you don't need to compare to Porsche or BMW. Ford's own Fiesta built in Europe has far higher paint and assembly quality than the Mustang built in Detroit. Same company, different employees in different locations that obviously have different standards of management. I wish Ford could make those standards consistent across all of their models no matter where the cars are physically built.

Yes the C5 uses transversely mounted composite leaf springs and an SLA double wishbone suspension front and rear. It actually uses the same uprights in the front and rear. I've seen a number of articles saying that it's not worth it to go to coilovers on a C5. The factory suspension is really good. Body motions are super well controlled and the ride is still soft. Much softer than the ride in the GT350 but also with better body control. The advantages of 3100 lbs and low CG.

I own a Fiesta ST and I'm sure you are correct. I haven't noticed any real fit and finish issues, versus the Mustangs I have owned all had noticeable issues in that regard. I was just saying that fit and finish isn't as important to me as performance for the $$.

I agree with this 100%. V8 RWD makes my day. The ST is fun to drive, but not nearly as fun as a Mustang.

 

[The_Phantom]

I think most of you have never owned a BMW. My 335i Xdrive is 10 years old and maintenance and repair costs have been quite low. It has a few upgrades and performs very well. Ride and handling are better than my GT and it's a bit smaller with less front and rear overhang, so it feels more agile. It's a different driving experience than my GT, but no less enjoyable.

Truth.

I loved my '08 335xi coupe. Twin turbo, never an issue, absolute pleasure to drive and the build quality was second to none.

If I hadn't hurt my knee and wound up with a permanent disability, I probably would still be driving it.

 

[3star2nr]

I assume its because mine is new.

I'm likely going to buy a leftover GT and then sleeve the motor and go built A10, upgraded half shafts, and hellion twin turbo street sleeper.

Not 100% yet. I was looking at a C63 or ZL1, but those don't need mods.

I want a V8 and to modify it. I wish the GT350 came with a DCT, because driving around NYC in a manual is a pain with traffic and pedestrians.

Thats a great plan man. You can also just get a shortblock out of an f150. And tasca parts have GT shortblocks for 3k brand new but they charge a 1000.00 core charge plus 3-500 for truck freight. But its a brand new shortblock.

 

[BmacIL]

Truth.

I loved my '08 335xi coupe. Twin turbo, never an issue, absolute pleasure to drive and the build quality was second to none.

If I hadn't hurt my knee and wound up with a permanent disability, I probably would still be driving it.

How long did you own it out of warranty?

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