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EVL-S550

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If people think they are "saving the planet" by buying electric cars, they are either ignorant of the full reality of electric cars, or chose to live in denial.

Without going into extreme detail because I have no interest in sitting at my computer for two hours typing let me put it in very, very simple terms below:

If the entire first-world (U.S./Canada/Europe/Australia) somehow stopped using gasoline/diesel, then the demand would drop on a massive, massive scale. Well, what happens to the price of something when the demand bottoms out? Yes, the price drops accordingly. Which means if the price of gasoline/diesel dropped to say 1/3 the price it is now, then gasoline/diesel become affordable to people living in undeveloped/underdeveloped areas of the planet such as Africa/SE Asia; and THEY will burn it.

If you don't think that we as a species won't burn every last drop of petroleum that we can get our grubby, little hands on; well you are living in a fantasy land.

And if we as a species are going to burn it all, then please let me joint in on the party!
Amen.
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2017GBGTPP

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Easier explained than that. Recent studies showed that if the U.S. immediately stopped ALL fossil fuel use / carbon output, worldwide figures would not go down. See China and India.
Who cares what China and India are doing? Using a global warming argument to say there's nothing we can do globally so we might as well pollute our country is a dangerous (and common) belief. Just because we can't stop global warming doesn't mean we should be living with poisoned air and water.

I am baffled at how many people have been convinced that poisoning our environment is a good thing. I challenge anybody to travel to New Delhi and tell me that's the kind of environment they want here.
 

ctandc72

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Who cares what China and India are doing? Using a global warming argument to say there's nothing we can do globally so we might as well pollute our country is a dangerous (and common) belief. Just because we can't stop global warming doesn't mean we should be living with poisoned air and water.

I am baffled at how many people have been convinced that poisoning our environment is a good thing. I challenge anybody to travel to New Delhi and tell me that's the kind of environment they want here.
I"m baffled how I use facts - and you somehow morph that into I'm "convinced poisoning our environment is a good thing". Travel to India? You mean the place where capitalism is lifting MILLIONS out of poverty? Problem is you compare YOUR life and YOUR surroundings to New Delhi. Why? Do you know the history behind India? Do you know what they've come from to get where they are now? On the flipside I've been to places where gasoline powered generators / pumps are the only affordable way for people to have clean water without lugging it by hand. The difference in their life with clean water versus contaminated water literally can be life and death.

That's one of the biggest problems with many people in our country. They look at other countries / people and view them through their own perspective / life and experiences. Like the people in the U.S. years ago who were outraged at a major manufacturer paying people $5 a day for working in a "sweat shop". That $5 a day was enough for these people to feed their family. Instead of a little research and looking at what the cost of living is in other places, they just automatically compared to what $5 a day would buy them here in the U.S.

So far in the U.S. almost the entire "Green" energy movement has done nothing but drive the cost of electricity up, cost the taxpayers billions of dollars - but some people "Feel better". We're "doing something". Solar is not a practical large scale solution for power production. Wind? The cost vs generation factor is ridiculous when you look at actual costs (installation / maintenance / use of real estate / land versus cost not to mention the effect on the local wildlife and environment). Do I have to mention ethanol? BILLIONS Spent on a faulty energy production scheme - where it LITERALLY took MORE than 1 gallon of gasoline to generate 1 gallon of ethanol, especially when the BTU from one gallon ethanol is quite a bit less than 1 gallon of gasoline.

What about the problem of the thousand of batteries from EVs that have to be recycled / disposed of? As of 2015 there was ONE plant that could recycle these batteries effectively in any kind of large scale environment.

Good intentions are great. But unintended consequences are still consequences. And making it some kind of moral issue is disingenuous at best.

Are we even going to talk about the huge amount of rare earth minerals needed for all this EV technology and what the mining process is doing to the very environment that this process is meant to improve?
 

BlackandBlue

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A few points.

The cost of green energy is directly related to cost of electricity.

50% green = ~50% increase in cost.
This is due to idling on demand station for peak demand. Upkeep Cost stays the while profitability plunges.

The power grid is runs near capacity for profitability purposes. Imagine taking out all the gasoline that is pumped everyday. This would take huge investment in power in infrastructure since the gasoline would now be overhead. There could also be huge peak dam and around holidays that cause brownouts.

Electric cars are more harmful to the environment from a pure gas vs eletric standpoint. Lithium, converting from ac to dc back to ac is inefficient. Lithium alone is terrible and non recyclable in bulk.

Tesla is a bankrupt company. They don’t make money. They won’t be around in current form in 5 years. Competition Is coming. Need a fender or motor? Good
Luck.

Eletric will one day be a viable alternative in mass. It is not at this point. We need much better batteries that are not completely toxic to put environment.

They however will change the drag racing world at some
Point.
 

Biggus Dickus

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I love some of the arguments here - "Since we can't do anything about destroying the Earth, let's do nothing and let's just burn it to the ground until it becomes uninhabitable, because, well, it is simply a human fait accompli". How convenient.
 

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3star2nr

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Idk what happened in my brain today but I really , really want the new mustang inspired ev crossover. Especially if it has the rumored 370 mile range. What an awesome daily. Then id have my loud, gas drinking beast for the weekend.

Yeah I like that future.
Its not NOT a Mustang... Or have anything to do with the mustangs
 

IronG

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Not in the market for an EV (maybe never will be), but I do like to see Ford do well. I hope they don't make the mistake like Tesla and implement a similarly hideous interior. It is the single biggest reason I would never own a Tesla. Every time I go over to my neighbors and peer inside I just can't get past the plain jane looking dash and the stupidly large screen. It just seems cheap and awkward.
 

VooDooDaddy

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Who cares what China and India are doing? Using a global warming argument to say there's nothing we can do globally so we might as well pollute our country is a dangerous (and common) belief. Just because we can't stop global warming doesn't mean we should be living with poisoned air and water.

I am baffled at how many people have been convinced that poisoning our environment is a good thing. I challenge anybody to travel to New Delhi and tell me that's the kind of environment they want here.
CARBON DIOXIDE (the major bi-product of the internal combustion engine) is NOT a poison!!

It is great for plant life and allows more plants (food) to grow larger and more fruitful. Carbon dioxide levels during the time of the dinosaurs was almost 10 times of what it is today, yet the planet somehow managed to NOT experience "run-away global warming".

"But, ohhhh, the planet is warming!!!"

Yes, it is, and it's great!! The planet has been warming since the end of the last ice age. And it's great for everyone. Don't belive me? Ask yourself this question: Where would you rather live?: 1. Jacksonville, Florida or 2. Anchorage, Alaska

Please step away from the propaganda machine....

Tesla is a bankrupt company. They don’t make money. They won’t be around in current form in 5 years. Competition Is coming.
I hope y'all don't have any stock in TESLA. If you do, I would sell it NOW. In five years TESLA will be as dead as yesterday. Ford, GM, Toyota, Nissan, HONDA, and VW especially; have the manufacturing capacity that TESLA can only dream of. Not to mention the billions and billions of dollars they have in R&D capacity. Porche's new Taycan was the opening slavo for what is essentially the death rattle for TESLA.

I love some of the arguments here - "Since we can't do anything about destroying the Earth, let's do nothing and let's just burn it to the ground until it becomes uninhabitable, because, well, it is simply a human fait accompli". How convenient.
Hey retard, we are not destroying the earth. This statement is pure narcissism. The USA is cleaner today than it has been since before the industrial revolution, and look at how many hundreds and hundreds of millions people live lives that all the Pharaohs and Kings of antiquity could only dream of. Image you went back in time two hundred years, and described to anyone you saw, what your life in the USA is like in 2019. They would think you were living in paradise. Because you ARE living in a paradise.

And this paradise exists because of petroleum. PERIOD.

I have nothing but contempt and disdain for people who deride the "evil", "earth-destroying" fossil fuels, but are more than happy to reap the rewards of the peace, prosperity, security, comfort, health, and luxury it has brought them.

To me these people are nothing short of frauds and hypocrites. i. e. (Democrats)
 

2017GBGTPP

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CARBON DIOXIDE (the major bi-product of the internal combustion engine) is NOT a poison!!
And Carbon Dioxide is not the only byproduct of ICE's. Again, you have fallen back on the global warming argument and ignored the other poisons (like hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide) that they put out. You obviously have never been to an major city in a country with lax environmental laws, or even a big city in the 80's like LA, Chicago, or NY, where you could see the smog all around you. You can't seriously think that dark brown air is a good thing, but you seem to be arguing that it is.

I understand all of your arguments, and while they have some truth to them they completely ignore the actual effects of our actions in favor of arguing for more pollution. There is nothing to profit from poisoning our environment. Reducing pollution has cleaned up the aforementioned cities significantly and improved our health and our lives. It has forced Ford to create more efficient cars, one of which being a 450+ HP V8 that gets 15-25 MPG, which was unheard of only 15 years ago. If you think you would have that without environmental regulations then you are sorely mistaken.
 

VooDooDaddy

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And Carbon Dioxide is not the only byproduct of ICE's. Again, you have fallen back on the global warming argument and ignored the other poisons (like hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide) that they put out. You obviously have never been to an major city in a country with lax environmental laws, or even a big city in the 80's like LA, Chicago, or NY, where you could see the smog all around you. You can't seriously think that dark brown air is a good thing, but you seem to be arguing that it is.

I understand all of your arguments, and while they have some truth to them they completely ignore the actual effects of our actions in favor of arguing for more pollution. There is nothing to profit from poisoning our environment. Reducing pollution has cleaned up the aforementioned cities significantly and improved our health and our lives. It has forced Ford to create more efficient cars, one of which being a 450+ HP V8 that gets 15-25 MPG, which was unheard of only 15 years ago. If you think you would have that without environmental regulations then you are sorely mistaken.
In all fairness, you make some very, very good points. I won't comment any further as to the pollution argument, because I have contributed to this thread going off the rails.



V8 muscle cars are great. If I could buy an electric car at a reasonable price (compared to I.C.E.), I would.
 

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Houston Kid

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I would seriously consider a full electric new Bronco. Not into saving the planet and carbon credit crap. I like the thought of 100% max Trq immediately.

Long live ICE and the mighty V8!!!!
 

kent0464

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I’ve worked on a several hybrids and full electric cars.....I would not buy one yet they are still in their infancy and have issues, add to that that most of them are coupled to CVT transmissions which are still not perfected for the most part, and you have a money pit....possibly off-set by fuel savings. Not sure. Batteries are fairly heavy, expensive to dispose of and expensive to replace.
I think all cars will eventually have CVT’s, once they are perfected, they give smooth linear acceleration to any motor, however with current technology they are not yet there for long term performance applications, believe me I’ve taken a few apart and rebuilt them.
 
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Coolmanfoo

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I’ve worked on a several hybrids and full electric cars.....I would not buy one yet they are still in their infancy and have issues, add to that that most of them are coupled to CVT transmissions which are still not perfected for the most part, and you have a money pit....possibly off-set by fuel savings. Not sure. Batteries are fairly heavy, expensive to dispose of and expensive to replace.
I think all cars will eventually have CVT’s, once they are perfected, they give smooth linear acceleration to any motor, however with current technology they are not yet there for long term performance applications, believe me I’ve taken a few apart and rebuilt them.
This is a legitimate concern. I will say, when it comes to electric vehicles (especially as a daily) a lease makes sense. Since evs are so new the tech will change pretty dramatically every 3 years. Plus I think the batteries do start to "shrink" and lose range around the 4-5 year mark.

If you could afford to lease I'm order to avoid the issues and also stay in the latest tech it does offset a lot of those issues.

My boss currently has a Chevy bolt and he abuses it. One nice thing about evs is they have way fewer moving parts. Weird noises don't crop up as often. You can really beat on them and for the most part there is no issue.
 

CurtisH

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Idk what happened in my brain today but I really , really want the new mustang inspired ev crossover. Especially if it has the rumored 370 mile range. What an awesome daily. Then id have my loud, gas drinking beast for the weekend.

Yeah I like that future.
It’s not 370 miles. That is using the European test cycle and it gives better results. I’ve read that 370 on the European cycle would yield about 330 on the US cycle. I’ve also read that Ford is targeting 300 for the US cycle. So it will probably be between 300 and 330 on the US cycle. That’s still plenty for a daily driver.
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