Post bbq tick users. WHICH OIL?

[TheLion]

On my first oil change, I switched to a Mobil 1 filter for $10 at Walmart. Super overbuilt filters that I soon realized is a bit over kill if I intend to change my oil every 5,000 miles.

So, from here on out, I bought the Motorcraft FL-500S filter, which is very similar to the Mobil1, only a little cheaper at $6.

I see no reason to run anything other than the FL-500S filter unless you want extended drain intervals or running a larger filter for increased capacity. Ford Performance offers a larger variant for slightly increased oil capacity. But it's a filter, it meets OE specs for filtration, flow and bypass. If your car is under warranty it's just one less thing for them to point a finger at that you won't really see any difference from. Just my 2 cents.

As mentioned it's also affordable at just $6~$7. Some things are worth changing or deviating from OE specs while other things are not. Not everything OE is bad or poorly optimized. Some OE components, fluids and lubricants work very well while others are compromises due to costs. Knowing what to change and to what is the key to success.

I've become more conservative in altering things and more anal about really making the most of the changes I do perform to the car and it's paying in dividends. I've spent a lot less money on parts on my GT than I did on my Ecoboost and achieved far better results. The car is just awesome. Suspension is still in progress, but I'm not touching the engine and exhaust from what I have. Reliability trumps all else if you want to actually enjoy the car in my opinion and some small gains are just not worth fretting over.

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[Condor1970]

UPDATE: Mileage is at almost 3,500 miles. I ran Mobil 1 EP 5w20 for 2,500 miles, and it came out very dark. As dark as regular Mobil 1 5w30 comes out of my Corolla after whining away for 5,000 miles. I opened up the oil filter, and will keep it for reference. I didn't really find too much material. I few sparkles here and there, but certainly nothing to indicate anything catastrophic.

I went with PUP 5w30 and MC FL-500S filter. 10qts, and no additives.

The tick is the same. PUP 5w30 had ZERO effect. Intermittent tick on warmup while idling, then goes away. But the tick comes back when revving in neutral up to 2,000rpms when warm, and is constant with RPM. Almost seems a little louder now too. Also at idle, I can here a tapping on the low end. This tapping has a slight metallic ring/ping to it. Not sure if it's the DI pump or not. Whatever it is, it doesn't sound good.

I have an appointment to take it in Monday morning.

 

[mustangflanagan]

Mine litterly started the same symptoms today.. Before it was cold start now all time..2nd apt Nov 7

 

[GT Pony]

I see no reason to run anything other than the FL-500S filter unless you want extended drain intervals or running a larger filter for increased capacity.

I just changed oil and filter on my GT, and cut open the FL-500S oil filter. It has lots of media area ... I measured 55 pleats and a total area of 227 sq-in. I see no need for a larger oil filter.

 

[TheLion]

Some owners have had success with 0W-40. Problem is 0W-40 is quite viscous at 100C and consequently produces a lot of drag, about 17 cSt at 100C. According to Clevite, ideal oil viscosity for rod bearings is 10 cSt at 100C. Why 10? It's the sweet spot that provides adequate protection with modern bearing designs while minimizing drag. Going significantly higher will increase drag and consequently induce self heating which counteracts the advantages of increasing oil viscosity (aka heating thins it out). Too thin and obviously MOFT becomes the bigger issue which isn't good either as you get metal on metal contact. As with most things in life, there's a sweet spot where things work very well and deviating too far has negative consequences.

 

[GT Pony]

Some owners have had success with 0W-40. Problem is 0W-40 is quite viscous at 100C and consequently produces a lot of drag, about 17 cSt at 100C. According to Clevite, ideal oil viscosity for rod bearings is 10 cSt at 100C. Why 10? It's the sweet spot that provides adequate protection with modern bearing designs while minimizing drag.

That's why I went with Valvoline 5W-30 (dexos1, Gen2 SN+) ... it's KV100 = 10.2 cSt. Also, HTHS is 3.2 and Noack 9.3. Plus the current formula has some moly in it.

 

[Condor1970]

I've been perusing other forums (F-150 Forum) trying to find more info on the BBQ tick with other 5.0L owners, and found a thread of guys complaining about the same BBQ tick we have. One guy chimed in with an F-150 that had almost 100,000 miles on it, and said he had the tick from the beginning, but managed to fix it.

This is pretty much what he said....

"I installed a Magnaflow, and it took care if it."

When others asked how that could be, he said...

"I dunno, I can't even hear my own stereo anymore."

 

[markbehr]

Mobil 1 EP isn't really designed for high performance applications and it's a different formula than Mobil 1 Advanced Full Synthetic which is very popular with the 5th Gen LT1 owners (Corvettes and 6th Gen Camaros) and is OE for spec oil from the factory for the following mfg's:

Aston Martin
Bentley
Cadillac (ATS-V and CTS-V)
Chevrolet (Camaro SS, Corvette)
McLaren
Mercedes-AMG
Nissan GT-R
Porsche

Mobil 1 EP is designed for extended drain intervals and to minimize cold start wear, not for high temperature / high load / high RPM operation and consequently it's formula is tweaked just for that application. You have no idea what anti-wear additives or how the base stocks are blended even if they have the same viscosity. One variant may shear down faster than the other from the same brand because their goals are different in how they are formulated.

I ran Mobil 1 EP in my NA 2007 Focus ST (2.3L) and 2001 Impala 9C1 Police Interceptor without any issues, both cars had over 175k on them when I sold them and no engine related issues. But those were not high revving V8's making 465HP+.

Interestingly Mobil 1 Advanced Synthetic has the best HTHS Viscosity of the common off the shelf oils (Valvoline, PUP, Motorcraft) of about 2.75 cSt which is very good for a 5W-20 multi-grade oil. I'm not sure how fast it shears down compared to Valvoline, but it has slightly better HTHS viscosity rating according to the ASTM D4683 test specifications. How well each oil maintains that viscosity over its service life is up for debate as I haven't found any officail testing on their newer Advanced Full Synthetic formula compared to Valvoline. But both Valvoline and Mobil 1 meet Ford's and GM's current specs and I have not found any evidence of anyone on this forum having oil related issues due to either oil.

People keep citing sources that are 2,3 or even 4 years old that are NOT representative of current formulas. Even if the oil has the same name, it's formula now is not what it's formula was. Take PUP for example over on Bob is the Oil Guy. Penzoil changed their formula and it's performance dramatically changed despite having the same viscosity grade and branding.

For you AMSOIL fan boys, one forum member ran Signature Series 5W-20 since his car was new, changed it at 5k intervals and got the BBQ tick at 40k miles....I forget the OP, but he's on my list of 51 BBQ Tickers. I don't believe it was oil related and AMSOIL makes some of the most robust oil formulas on the market, bar none, well AMSOIL and Driven (Joe Gibbs) who both use either Group IV PAO's or group V Esters. But something still changed...it's not always about the absolute "best", but about what's good enough. Some times there is no further benefit to "better", while other times there is.

Comparing Mobil 1 EP to Valvoline Advanced Synthetic is disingenuous and absurd, they simply aren't formulated for the same type of applications. Why in the world would you compare a passenger car motor oil designed for extended drain intervals to Valvoline's top full synthetic designed for standard drain intervals? And having more ZDDP alone isn't going to make it a better oil for wear if that's what your thinking for Mobil 1 EP useres, there are chemical additives that go along with ZDDP to make it function properly, ZDDP is always paired with chemical friction modifiers as it has rather poor friction properties by itself, it's there almost entirely for anti-wear purposes in boundary, mixed and elastohydrodrnamic lubrication regimes. Those friction modifiers play a key role in viscosity and friction properties and vary from formula to formula even among grades and within the same mfg.

Mobil 1 Advanced Synthetic is 8.9 cSt @ 100C vs. Valvoline's 8.1 cSt. Valvoline lists their HTHS viscosity at 2.7 cSt @ 150C, so Valvoline is very temp stable and close to Mobile 1's Advanced Synthetic at 2.75 cSt@150C. 2.75 vs. 2.7....and we're going to sit here an debate one being better than the other?

Provide me some data on the CURRENT Mobil 1Advanced Full Synthetic formula ,the one that is Dexos 1 gen 2 now in production for just the last 6 months...on how fast it shears down compared to Valvoline's CURRENT formula which has been out for about 1 year.

If the data shows Valvoline is superior at resisting shear I'll switch back over (I ran Valvoline Full Synthetic 5W-30 in my Ecoboost because it was one of the first LSPI rated oils to market with good over all performance). In fact if Valvoline is cheaper with nearly the same HTHS performance I'll run their oil instead.

I have no data on HTHS for PUP which I did run for one change interval in my GT for about 5k miles. They don't publish that data so unless some one has some ASTM D4683 tests performed on their CURRENT formula, not from 2 or 3 years ago...it's just conjecture and speculation. Even the ASMOIL 3rd party tests are now 5 years old, none of those formulas are the same any longer...I'd wager that Mobil 1, Valvoline and PUP will all out perform Motorcraft Semi-Syn in HTHS performance...yet Ford does all their OE testing with MC Semi-Syn and Ford Performance also tests with MC Semi-Syn as most of their customers actually run OE oils. They beat the these engines extremely hard, more so than 99% of us could ever achieve and they run just fine.

Valvoline, PUP, Motorcraft, Mobil 1 and AMSOIL are all rated for either API SN Plus or Dexos 1 Gen 2 both of which address knock issues as far as motor oil is concerned. Yes even the new blends of MC, both Semi and Full syn are now API SN Plus, says right on their website now: https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubricants.com/main/product.asp?product=SAE 5W-20 Synthetic Blend Motor Oil&category=Motor Oil



Here are the specs as per the mfg.

MC 5W-20 Semi-Syn: Viscosity@40C = 50, Viscosity@100C = 8.7, Viscosity Index = 164, Pour Point C = <-42, Flash Point C = 185, HTHS Viscosity@150C = Not Published, Noack Loss = 15.2

MC 5W-20 Full-Syn: Viscosity@40C = 45.9, Viscosity@100C = 8.3, Viscosity Index = 159, Pour Point C = <-45, Flash Point C = 185, HTHS Viscosity@150C = Not Published, Noack Loss = 13.2

Mobil 1 Advanced Full Synthetic 5W-20: Viscosity@40C = 49.8, Viscosity@100C = 8.9, Viscosity Index = 160, Pour Point C = <-43, Flash Point C = 230, HTHS Viscosity@150C = 2.75 cSt, Noack Loss = Not Published

Valvoline Advanced Synthetic 5W-20: Viscosity@40C = 46.5, Viscosity@100C = 8.7, Viscosity Index = 147, Pour Point C = <-36, Flash Point C = Not Published, HTHS Viscosity@150C = 2.7 cSt, Noack Loss = 7.6

Penzoil Ultra Platinum Full Synthetic GTL 5W-20: Viscosity@40C = 48, Viscosity@100C = 8.8, Viscosity Index = 164, Pour Point C = <-48, Flash Point C = 207, HTHS Viscosity@150C = Not Published, Noack Loss = Not Published

AMSOIL Signature Series 5W-20: Viscosity@40C = 50.6, Viscosity@100C = 8.8, Viscosity Index = 153, Pour Point C = <-50, Flash Point C = 220, HTHS Viscosity@150C = 2.67 cSt, Noack Loss = 5.8

But remember that both Mobil 1 Advanced Synthetic and Valvoline Advanced Synthetic meet both GM's and Ford's OE specs with GM's being extremely difficult to pass. Dexos 1 Gen 2 either meets or exceeds Ford's WSS specs in most areas and both oils are Dexos 1 Gen 2 certified including for use in the LT1 6.2L.

I see no reason either would be inadequate for the 5.0, modified or otherwise. For extreme power applications there are better oils than either such as Driven's Street Car formula which is specifically designed for maximum HTHS performance in high powered street car V8's. AMSOIL is designed more as an all around performer over long drain intervals rather than geared towards "track type" use but should perform about on par with Mobil 1 or Valvoline in HTHS. They are all pretty close.

But I can guarantee you that Mobil 1 at 3k~5k intervals will provide better protection than AMSOIL at 10k intervals. So it all depends on your goals, uses and condition of your engine. BTW that's another benefit of TriboTEX, CeraTec or Archoil. They provide a self honing function to the ring and cylinder walls, thus reducing blow by which thins your oil. Using these nano ceramic surface re-conditioners helps you oil maintain it's viscosity over what ever service interval you run it at regardless of formula by reducing exposure to acids that thin it out and reducing peak temperatures during high rpm / high load operation. A win win for your motor oil and it's ability to protect.

You could take the best performing HTHS formula and subject it to brutal heat cycles and high blow by and it's performance will degrade faster than a lesser oil under much more "ideal" conditions. Engineering is about efficiency and making the most of what you have. Some times that does mean a better lubricant or better oil or better design, other times it means using what you have more efficiently. I'm a fan of pursuing the latter first and then looking to the former if there's no practical way to better utilize what's on hand.

Mobil 1 Advanced Synthetic is a very good oil for 3k~5k intervals if you do a lot of sustained high rpm / high load driving. So is Valvoline. Ford Performance reps backed up that Mobil 1 is a good oil when I asked them about an alternative to Motorcraft and one they would recommend for off the shelf types. I'm sure they would have said the same thing for Valvoline had I asked. So pick what is best suited for you and your application. There IS NO BEST OIL. Only oils that are better in different at different things, weather it's cost / availability, long service intervals, maintaining viscosity under high temperature / high shear conditions etc.

Great write up but its like reading a foreign language. Still not sure which oil to use. :-/

 

[ICEFURY]

Any one use the DRIVEN specfic coyote oil or the new Oil for Direct injection?

 

[Condor1970]

CERATEC-

OK, I'll have to admit what I've done, since even though many have tried this, and I even plugged the idea myself, I have been very hesitant about adding anything to my oil.

To recap my history. At 800 miles, I noticed the BBQ tick started on the original factory fill, but it only occurred at idle, and slowly got worse. Could have started earlier, but I didn't notice it until 800 miles.

1st OC - At 1,000 miles, I changed the oil to Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w20, and a Mobil 1 oil filter. The BBQ tick continued to get worse. I inspected the original oil, and did not notice anything abnormal in the drain pan. I did not open the original Motorcraft filter. I probably should have, but wasn't too concerned at the time with the tick.

At 3,000 miles using Mobil 1 EP 5w20, the tick slowly morphed from ticking at idle during warmup only, into no longer ticking at idle when warm. Instead, now it ticks when blip revving in neutral from 1,200rpm and up with a constant tick in sync with engine rpm.


2nd OC - At 3,500 miles (yesterday), I switched oil again to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30, and a Motorcraft FL-500S oil filter. The tick did not change. No longer ticking at idle, but definitely ticking above 1,200rpm.

I kept all the old Mobil 1 EP 5w20, and inspected the drain pan. After letting it settle for a good 20 minutes, I saw nothing on the bottom of the pan. I also opened up the Mobil 1 oil filter, and I only saw a "few" super tiny particles of metal. I leafed through all the pleats and it was very clean to the naked eye. The filter seemed perfectly fine. The Mobil 1 EP oil itself did seem quite a bit dark for only having 2,500 miles on it though.

- Whatever this tick is, it certainly doesn't seemed to be causing any notable damage. At least, not yet.

Ceratec- When I got home last night, I decided to add Ceratec to the fresh PUP 5w30 oil change. The bottle says to add 1 bottle for 5qts of oil, so 2 bottles (600ml) for 10qts of PUP. This seemed a bit ridiculous. Over $40 to treat my engine. I just don't want to put that much stuff in. So, I only added about half a bottle (150ml), to see if there was any affect.

After going for a short drive around our area at 30-50mph, I got home, and checked for the tick.

The tick immediately stopped! I could tell when revving in neutral, it sounded like it wanted to tick when it hit 1,200rpm, but didn't. As if I would hear one quiet tick, then nothing. I will continue to drive the car, and make any updates to this if anything changes. Some have said their tick came back after several weeks of using Ceratec. I will definitely keep my ears open.

 

[scotty]

And we have another one
I believe one bottle is more than enough - 2 months later and I still have no tick. I started with half a bottle and added the rest a couple of weeks later.

 

[accel]

CERATEC-

OK, I'll have to admit what I've done, since even though many have tried this, and I even plugged the idea myself, I have been very hesitant about adding anything to my oil.

To recap my history. At 800 miles, I noticed the BBQ tick started on the original factory fill, but it only occurred at idle, and slowly got worse. Could have started earlier, but I didn't notice it until 800 miles.

1st OC - At 1,000 miles, I changed the oil to Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5w20, and a Mobil 1 oil filter. The BBQ tick continued to get worse. I inspected the original oil, and did not notice anything abnormal in the drain pan. I did not open the original Motorcraft filter. I probably should have, but wasn't too concerned at the time with the tick.

At 3,000 miles using Mobil 1 EP 5w20, the tick slowly morphed into ticking at idle during warmup only, and no longer ticking at idle when warm. But, ticking when blip revving in neutral from 1,200rpm and up, became a constant tick in sync with engine rpm.


2nd OC - At 3,500 miles (yesterday), I switched oil again to Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w30, and a Motorcraft FL-500S oil filter. The tick did not change. No longer ticking at idle, but definitely ticking above 1,200rpm.

I kept all the old Mobil 1 EP 5w20, and inspected the drain pan. After letting it settle for a good 20 minutes, I saw nothing on the bottom of the pan. I also opened up the Mobil 1 oil filter, and I only saw a "few" super tiny particles of metal. I leafed through all the pleats and it was very clean to the naked eye. The filter seemed perfectly fine. The Mobil 1 EP oil itself did seem quite a bit dark for only having 2,500 miles on it though.

- Whatever this tick is, it certainly doesn't seemed to be causing any notable damage. At least, not yet.

Ceratec- When I got home last night, I decided to add Ceratec to the fresh PUP 5w30 oil change. The bottle says to add 1 bottle for 5qts of oil, so 2 bottles (600ml) for 10qts of PUP. This seemed a bit ridiculous. Over $40 to treat my engine. I just don't want to put that much stuff in. So, I only added about half a bottle (150ml), to see if there was any affect.

After going for a short drive around our area at 30-50mph, I got home, and checked for the tick.

The tick immediately stopped! I could tell when revving in neutral, it sounded like it wanted to tick when it hit 1,200rpm, but didn't. As if I would hear one quiet tick, then nothing. I will continue to drive the car, and make any updates to this if anything changes. Some have said their tick came back after several weeks of using Ceratec. I will definitely keep my ears open.

i am still puzzled by carbon powder that was as far as we were hinted, suggested by someone from ford altogether with air bubbling theory.

I think carbon powder wouldn't be suggested by someone who only has one hard earned engine at their disposal.

the powder might be a result of experiments on multiple engines.

and then there's tribotex that says it uses carbon flakes.

 

[accel]

HA! This thread contains a link to a PDF with info on mysterious XL17 Motorcraft additive.

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=3082794

Gues what? It contained carbon black.

 

[Condor1970]

UPDATE: Ok, I just got home from work, and really sat in the garage playing with the throttle while in neutral. If I listen VERY carefully, I can still hear a tiny bit of tick in the background above 1,200rpm, but absolutely nothing at idle anymore. Keep in mind, I only used 1/2 bottle of Ceratec for 10qts oil (about 1/4 they say you can use), and I only drove about 50 miles on it now. I will continue to monitor closely.

 

[GT Pony]

UPDATE: Ok, I just got home from work, and really sat in the garage playing with the throttle while in neutral. If I listen VERY carefully, I can still hear a tiny bit of tick in the background above 1,200rpm, but absolutely nothing at idle anymore. Keep in mind, I only used 1/2 bottle of Ceratec for 10qts oil (about 1/4 they say you can use), and I only drove about 50 miles on it now. I will continue to monitor closely.

What you're hearing could have been there all along, but masked by the other tick that the Cera Tec got rid of.

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