Sponsored

PP brake pad temp range?

BmacIL

Enginerd
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Threads
69
Messages
15,010
Reaction score
8,920
Location
Naperville, IL
Vehicle(s)
2015 Guard GT Base, M/T
Vehicle Showcase
1

sonicc

Mr. Bond
Joined
Nov 2, 2016
Threads
21
Messages
290
Reaction score
69
Location
St. Louis
Vehicle(s)
2015 Mustang GT
I forgot to mention...for those of you that don't have time to wash your wheels after track day, I'd recommend something like Sonax or Iron-X. spray it on, rinse off...it gets most of the brake dust.
 

BmacIL

Enginerd
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Threads
69
Messages
15,010
Reaction score
8,920
Location
Naperville, IL
Vehicle(s)
2015 Guard GT Base, M/T
Vehicle Showcase
1
I forgot to mention...for those of you that don't have time to wash your wheels after track day, I'd recommend something like Sonax or Iron-X. spray it on, rinse off...it gets most of the brake dust.
It does work quite well. I noticed that after the first clean with Sonax, the dust doesn't seem to stick as much. :shrug:
 

BmacIL

Enginerd
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Threads
69
Messages
15,010
Reaction score
8,920
Location
Naperville, IL
Vehicle(s)
2015 Guard GT Base, M/T
Vehicle Showcase
1

Sponsored

DickR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Threads
3
Messages
1,400
Reaction score
507
Location
Raleigh
Vehicle(s)
2018 Ruby Red GTPP MagneRide 301A 10A and 1997 GT
Vorshlag posted this. Honestly I don't buy it (their results switching to the brembos). Either very poor bedding or bleeding of their car. [MENTION=22413]Optimum Performance[/MENTION] [MENTION=26578]RedfireV8[/MENTION]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10160272425130113&id=460717830112
Why not? It makes sense to me if the root cause is something like running out of M/C cylinder or booster travel (i.e. bottoming) as opposed to a simple M/C to caliper "ratio" change in the direction of more effort. Note that I have no practical experience to support my guess. :doh:
 

Norm Peterson

corner barstool sitter
Joined
Jul 22, 2013
Threads
11
Messages
9,011
Reaction score
4,720
Location
On a corner barstool not too far from I-95
First Name
Norm
Vehicle(s)
'08 GT #85, '19 WRX
OP
OP

lugz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2017
Threads
29
Messages
302
Reaction score
105
Location
NC
Vehicle(s)
2017 Mustang GT PP

BmacIL

Enginerd
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Threads
69
Messages
15,010
Reaction score
8,920
Location
Naperville, IL
Vehicle(s)
2015 Guard GT Base, M/T
Vehicle Showcase
1
Why not? It makes sense to me if the root cause is something like running out of M/C cylinder or booster travel (i.e. bottoming) as opposed to a simple M/C to caliper "ratio" change in the direction of more effort. Note that I have no practical experience to support my guess. :doh:
That's not how a properly functioning and bled hydraulic system works, though. Brake fluid compressibility is extremely low and if your system is bled properly, master cylinder travel just goes into increasing the line pressure. I find it extremely unlikely that the <10% change in total piston surface area (between the full set of front calipers) is enough to require a different master cylinder to function properly. Yes, the PP master cylinder probably has a larger displacement, but that is done to provide margin by design at the limits (old fluid, some air in the system, still can exert enough pressure to stop the car). As an engineer in the auto industry, I would be shocked if their margins were that small to not be able to take up that change. I could be wrong, but I also know Ford engineering. Also, the GT350 MC is identical to the base, non-PP GT.

I find their conclusions difficult to agree with, especially when there are numerous folks on this very forum who have changed to these brakes and used them on track without issue.

Here's the video on YT:
[ame]
 
Last edited:

DickR

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Threads
3
Messages
1,400
Reaction score
507
Location
Raleigh
Vehicle(s)
2018 Ruby Red GTPP MagneRide 301A 10A and 1997 GT
That's not how a properly functioning and bled hydraulic system works, though. Brake fluid compressibility is extremely low and if your system is bled properly, master cylinder travel just goes into increasing the line pressure. I find it extremely unlikely that the <10% change in total piston surface area (between the full set of front calipers) is enough to require a different master cylinder to function properly. Yes, the PP master cylinder probably has a larger displacement, but that is done to provide margin by design at the limits (old fluid, some air in the system, still can exert enough pressure to stop the car). As an engineer in the auto industry, I would be shocked if their margins were that small to not be able to take up that change. I could be wrong, but I also know Ford engineering.

I find their conclusions difficult to agree with, especially when there are numerous folks on this very forum who have changed to these brakes and used them on track without issue.
Thanks very much for the technical explanation!!!!

Question: Is there any chance that if the root cause isn't the very likely incorrect bleeding or bedding that the problem is ABS calibration? I don't really understand how brake balance works in these cars. Could the change in front have caused the rears to lock prematurely so ABS does the equivalent of what many call "ice mode"?

Another question: Where do you stand on your braking issue? Do you have the "bad" external vane inlet rotors?

Thanks!
 

Sponsored

J.P.B.

Active Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Threads
5
Messages
38
Reaction score
36
Location
NS
Vehicle(s)
2017 Mustang GT
For those thinking about if it might still be possible to stick with the base GT brakes....

- Steve Garvin (Chief Engineer) at DBA says that they are now exploring the possibility of changing the tooling to change the vent port on their rotors to the inside.

- If you can't wait for that, you can contact Mark Fowler at Bear, and he can set up their Eradispeed+ 2 piece rotors with slots only (off the shelf they come drilled and slotted). He has confirmed that the vent vanes are on the inside. Those rotors save some weight too.

I have no links of any kind with either company; just sharing a summary of some recent discussions I had with both.
 

DR_

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Threads
11
Messages
669
Reaction score
260
Location
In a van down by the river
First Name
David
Vehicle(s)
like a complete jerk
For those thinking about if it might still be possible to stick with the base GT brakes....

- Steve Garvin (Chief Engineer) at DBA says that they are now exploring the possibility of changing the tooling to change the vent port on their rotors to the inside.

- If you can't wait for that, you can contact Mark Fowler at Bear, and he can set up their Eradispeed+ 2 piece rotors with slots only (off the shelf they come drilled and slotted). He has confirmed that the vent vanes are on the inside. Those rotors save some weight too.

I have no links of any kind with either company; just sharing a summary of some recent discussions I had with both.
Good info, thanks. I want to keep the base GT calipers as they fit the ethos of my build.
 

J.P.B.

Active Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Threads
5
Messages
38
Reaction score
36
Location
NS
Vehicle(s)
2017 Mustang GT
@DR I hear you. I am very happy with my current 18" wheels (18x10 at all four corners, and only 23.5 lbs each) and tires; I don't really want to change them.

When I figure the cost of the brake and rotor upgrade, and the master cylinder, and the bigger wheels and tires, it's starting to look very expensive (even if the upgraded brakes and rotors are bargain NTOs).

Sure the Eradispeed+ 2-piece look expensive. But it seems like it should be less in the long run. Plus the whole package (aluminium hat rotors, 4 pistons callipers, 23.5 lb wheel) is looking like it will be substantially lighter than anything I can afford if I were to upgrade to the 6 pistons callipers. I am guessing that the lower rotational mass and the much better cooling with 2-piece rotors could each have noticeable effects. The price ($745.00) is no longer looking so bad. Now I just need to start saving up!
 

BmacIL

Enginerd
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Threads
69
Messages
15,010
Reaction score
8,920
Location
Naperville, IL
Vehicle(s)
2015 Guard GT Base, M/T
Vehicle Showcase
1
For those thinking about if it might still be possible to stick with the base GT brakes....

- Steve Garvin (Chief Engineer) at DBA says that they are now exploring the possibility of changing the tooling to change the vent port on their rotors to the inside.

- If you can't wait for that, you can contact Mark Fowler at Bear, and he can set up their Eradispeed+ 2 piece rotors with slots only (off the shelf they come drilled and slotted). He has confirmed that the vent vanes are on the inside. Those rotors save some weight too.

I have no links of any kind with either company; just sharing a summary of some recent discussions I had with both.
You're welcome :)
 

BmacIL

Enginerd
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Threads
69
Messages
15,010
Reaction score
8,920
Location
Naperville, IL
Vehicle(s)
2015 Guard GT Base, M/T
Vehicle Showcase
1
@DR I hear you. I am very happy with my current 18" wheels (18x10 at all four corners, and only 23.5 lbs each) and tires; I don't really want to change them.

When I figure the cost of the brake and rotor upgrade, and the master cylinder, and the bigger wheels and tires, it's starting to look very expensive (even if the upgraded brakes and rotors are bargain NTOs).

Sure the Eradispeed+ 2-piece look expensive. But it seems like it should be less in the long run. Plus the whole package (aluminium hat rotors, 4 pistons callipers, 23.5 lb wheel) is looking like it will be substantially lighter than anything I can afford if I were to upgrade to the 6 pistons callipers. I am guessing that the lower rotational mass and the much better cooling with 2-piece rotors could each have noticeable effects. The price ($745.00) is no longer looking so bad. Now I just need to start saving up!
Oh by the way, I had seen this quite a while ago, but was recently reminded: the GT350 master cylinder is the same as the base GT (non PP). The claim is BS.
Sponsored

 
 




Top