Stock PP Brake Pad Comparison

[Optimum Performance]

Jim,

I'm sorry you did not have the same experience with your pads that all our other Customers have.

Your experience is very odd. The stock PP pads, while very good, I was able to get them to fade at Thompson and that is on a simple track and peak speeds were only 125. It's possible my style uses more brake than your style would. At Palmer even with the uphill into T1 I had issues on the stock pads getting my speed down, even with the extra compression from the hill I couldn't get into ABS with them on the P-Zero's. I tried a set of DS2500 Ferodo pads on the Daytona School Course on my current BFG Comp 2's and even though they are rumored to be the actual OEM pad I was not impressed with the bite at all and again was getting fade.

I ran R10's this past weekend at Daytona for three days, ABS on demand, braking twice a lap from 140+ for 30 minute sessions. No fade, excellent bite, braking at the 2 marker into the bus stop and braking after start finish into T1 mainly because of lack of grip and stock suspension making it interesting. I barely have any pad wear on the R10's. My ride check coach could have used a Hans during braking the bite is that violent

A similar car to mine was there on R10's and RE71's and needed slightly more brake but he was also able to brake harder and carry more speed. I also run brake cooling.

We still recommend R10's on the GT and R12's on the Shelby's. If you are on a Cup tire or anything approaching an R type compound you want to move up to a R12 (Sticky)/R16(Really sticky) on the GT and R16-R18 on the Shelby. A real R compound you would want R16-18's on the car. Obviously you run a big tire upfront that is a track compound you will want to utilize a R18 because this assumes you have suspension and tire footprint to use it. This is just a guide, driver style also impacts this, as does the course.

[MENTION=18475]Gatorac[/MENTION] You mentioned something where your braking data files surprised you. Do you care to share that information? It sounds like while you didn't feel like you were braking as hard on the R12's your data suggested otherwise :shrug: Did this cause you to over-slow at corner entry? Maybe you were over-braking combined with no brake cooling to cause the caliper flex leading to the tapered wear.

Please let us know if there is anything we can do to help :cheers:

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[shanethealmighty]

I am 1 second faster and pull significantly more G's on my G-Loc pads at Waterford Hills. I do miss the days of quiet pads around town though.

 

[Competition Orange]

I have never had any corrosion form Hawk pads. I've never heard of that. Weird.

They're corrosive to wheels, known issue.

I had the same issue with Hawk. The I either needed a set of track wheels that I didn't care about or plan on cleaning the wheels up before leaving the track. The dust turns to cement.

Yep.

I am 1 second faster and pull significantly more G's on my G-Loc pads at Waterford Hills. I do miss the days of quiet pads around town though.

Good to hear. Did you do new rotors or turned them when you switched to the G-Loc?

 

[BmacIL]

EBC's are also corrosive to wheels, at least the Red Stuff are.

 

[Gatorac]

You mentioned something where your braking data files surprised you. Do you care to share that information? It sounds like while you didn't feel like you were braking as hard on the R12's your data suggested otherwise :shrug: Did this cause you to over-slow at corner entry? Maybe you were over-braking combined with no brake cooling to cause the caliper flex leading to the tapered wear.

Data is in the side by side videos. I had expected the data to show significantly better braking with the stock pads. It shows about the same. That was the surprise. I was not over braking and you can see I actually went in too hot into 7. I was not able to get into ABS on the R12 and was able to on the stock pad. That's the part that had me thinking I would see greater G's under braking. The G's in the corners are the same between the 2 tires so the grip level does not account for the inability to lock up. The tires can be clearly heard protesting that they have no more grip available.:lol:

I believe the pads tapered because the bite of the R12 was not enough and I was having to stomp on the pedal with both feet to get the car slowed down. Too bad I can't get brake pedal pressure with my Solo DL. I'd love to see what that would show.

I'm amazed you had enough bite on the R10. Perhaps what I received was not R12?

 

[Gatorac]

I am 1 second faster and pull significantly more G's on my G-Loc pads at Waterford Hills. I do miss the days of quiet pads around town though.

Unless you've changed something from what's in your sig, this doesn't mean much. The topic was about PP brakes. The PP brakes and pads are significantly different than the base. I would expect brake fade on base brakes without some different pads. Even with pads you may get fade. This is based on my experience with my 2013 Track Pack.

 

[stoli]

I'm really surprised with your r12 experience. I've gone stocks, to r10, and now r12 and am finally happy. My driving was much less aggressive with the stock pads, so I can't make a fair comparison with them. However, at The Firm that is hard on brakes I had fade with Carbotech XP10s and could stand on them and not get abs once they were hot. Kinda scary a couple of times. Now that I'm on the G-LOC R12's (and have brake ducts) I have zero fade and they grab a shit ton better - to the point I'm braking too early now and am still adjusting.

 

[gtorpedo]

Jim, looking back at your original post it does look like your pads had the silver backing plate which is what the GLOC R8 pads use...the R12s are blue. Perhaps the blue color faded out entirely if they were in fact R12 pads, but the switch up may have been a possibility..

 

[stoli]

The blue goes away in one session.

 

[Optimum Performance]

Data is in the side by side videos. I had expected the data to show significantly better braking with the stock pads. It shows about the same. That was the surprise. I was not over braking and you can see I actually went in too hot into 7. I was not able to get into ABS on the R12 and was able to on the stock pad. That's the part that had me thinking I would see greater G's under braking. The G's in the corners are the same between the 2 tires so the grip level does not account for the inability to lock up. The tires can be clearly heard protesting that they have no more grip available.:lol:

I believe the pads tapered because the bite of the R12 was not enough and I was having to stomp on the pedal with both feet to get the car slowed down. Too bad I can't get brake pedal pressure with my Solo DL. I'd love to see what that would show.

I'm amazed you had enough bite on the R10. Perhaps what I received was not R12?

In all fairness P-Zeros make a lot of noise, all the time My Comp 2's are much better communicators, I know when I have them loaded properly and when I don't. Staggered tires do not work on these cars for track use. When I went square on P-Zeros it was a vast improvement. The 285 Comps make my car very neutral on stock suspension (except in off camber turns with too much entry speed :frusty

If you were not boiling the fluid the need to use two feet with PP brakes it is an indication of a bedding issue. R12's should be giving you ABS all the time on those tiny little 255 P-Zero's up front. If you ever want to try them again let me know, I can get you a set of Pre-Bed R16's (for Sebring) or R12's and can get you a set of factory rotors. I would suggest an R10 on the rear to balance the car out. I think if you gave this a try you would have a much different opinion. Again, pushing hard at Sebring brake cooling is mandatory. Also if you have 200#'s riding right seat that is a lot more inertia to slow down.

The R10's bite very hard for me, and I typically do not brake initially with enough pressure so I have to modulate it. With my very basic set-up I have to be careful on loading the chassis because there is not a lot of extra grip available if I shock the chassis. The PP suspension is really good but under-sprung and under-damped for track use near the limits. The car tends to go where it wants under late braking ;)

 

[Competition Orange]

Pre-bed is a must, IMO. Too many issues with people bedding in pads properly to not do it. If I was a vendor, I'd only stock the prebed stuff.

 

[strengthrehab]

I'm guessing pre-bed pads mean exactly what it says? they are ready to go and don't need bedded even on new rotors?

I didn't know pad companies offered the pre-bed ones

 

[Optimum Performance]

Pre-bed is a must, IMO. Too many issues with people bedding in pads properly to not do it. If I was a vendor, I'd only stock the prebed stuff.

We are switching over to them on some numbers. All our Shelby R12's are for instance. We plan to move to more Pre-Bed but it also adds inventory cost that we have yet to decide if we will begin charging for it like we are technically required to.

I'm guessing pre-bed pads mean exactly what it says? they are ready to go and don't need bedded even on new rotors?


I didn't know pad companies offered the pre-bed ones

Yes we do them on ordered pads all the time. Yes if you run the Pre-Bed pads they are ready to go after touching the brakes about 3-5 times. This puts a transfer layer down on the rotor. We suggest taking the first session easier to let the rotors build some heat gradually so as not to thermal shock them but I break that rule all the time.

The biggest issue is running them for the first time on used rotors. Sand the rotor in every possible direction to remove old pad residue. It takes me about 15 minutes by hand to prep a PP rotor. Brake Clean a few times. Most of our customers do not have issues bedding the pads in. The higher compounds cause the issues because dialing a run back is not in the vocabulary. They will still bite good until they overheat and glaze. G-LOC has all this info on their FAQ page. Once you run a G-LOC pad you can switch back in forth between compounds. Most guys run the GS-1 on the street. Typically R8, R10's can be bedded fairly easily.

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