Guess what? Motortrend favors the Camaro again

[bootlegger]

that same day thing annoys me, by that standard a Honda civic could be a gt350r around the track because they were never tested same day and driver, i know it's an extreme example, but given the numbers we have fun the same company with the same drivers the ss won but it was close

Nah, not the same logic at all. When we are talking under a second, conditions during testing make a huge difference. Not so much when it is 3+ seconds. Why do you think people always look at DAs when discussing drag times? Hell, same logic with a dyno. The best comparisons are done with the same temp, humidity, and conditions. I have done fleet fuel economy testing for large diesel vehicles. You would be surprised at how much the numbers change when testing in the morning vs the afternoon.

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[bootlegger]

Only 3 tenths of a second faster than the 2015 GTPP? Sounds a bit fishy.

Yeah, but as we were discussing, the 16 SS and 15 GT weren't run under the same exact conditions as the 18 1LE and 18 GT. I take old track times with a grain of salt.

 

[tyler2k]

Nah, not the same logic at all. When we are talking under a second, conditions during testing make a huge difference. Not so much when it is 3+ seconds. Why do you think people always look at DAs when discussing drag times? Hell, same logic with a dyno. The best comparisons are done with the same temp, humidity, and conditions. I have done fleet fuel economy testing for large diesel vehicles. You would be surprised at how much the numbers change when testing in the morning vs the afternoon.

I know times could make a difference but I'm willing to bet the conditions for all their tests are similar and by that argument the 18gt was tested on a worse day so then the ss so that means the 1le could also turn better times making it even faster. bottom line ford had the benefit of see what chevy had for 3 years and in the best case just matches the base ss. as for the pp2 it beat the gt on a bigger track then willow by 3.5 secs, the 1le best the gt by 3 on a the smaller track. the pp2 i don't think is gonna touch the 1le

 

[Dudie7]

The buying public prefers the Mustang. I think that says a ton about these cars.

 

[tyler2k]

The buying public prefers the Mustang. I think that says a ton about these cars.

it does, it says it was the cheaper more comfortable option. with the price going up so much I'm curious to see if it affects sales

 

[thehunterooo]

The biggest issue I have with these types of comparisons are the bench racers who buy cars based on these types of reviews and have no intention of ever tracking the car.

Well I have a list of those people starting with bla.....

:lol:

 

[thill444]

it does, it says it was the cheaper more comfortable option. with the price going up so much I'm curious to see if it affects sales

You can still get a base GT for a resonable price. But yes, Ford improved a numner of things and added more tech, and if you want those things you will pay for them.

But. And I say this as someone who owns a Corvette and doesn't own a Mustang, the Mustang looks so much better to me and is just so much more functional. I know this gets stated to death, but if you are not worried about track times I think more people will simply gravitate to the Mustang styling and parcticality.

The Camaro, as awesome as it drives, is just so polarizing. I just don't understand why GM continues to compromise the styling to appeal to gen 5 owners who didn't want them to change things.

The 19 Camaro is supposed to have revised front and rear styling but based on the spy shots it still will be like sitting in a bunker with poor visibility. I just don't get it.

 

[tyler2k]

I owned a base by because I couldn't afford anything else for me 2014, i hated it, it was just sad on the inside. I then got a 15 gtpp with recaros like I always wanted. only complaint was the stupid calculator screen and all the problems i had with it

 

[Snagged]

Nah, not the same logic at all. When we are talking under a second, conditions during testing make a huge difference. Not so much when it is 3+ seconds. Why do you think people always look at DAs when discussing drag times? Hell, same logic with a dyno. The best comparisons are done with the same temp, humidity, and conditions. I have done fleet fuel economy testing for large diesel vehicles. You would be surprised at how much the numbers change when testing in the morning vs the afternoon.

Absolutely. This is what hero runs are all about.

 

[e30og]

December Camaro sales: 3800
December Mustang sales: 7500ish (cant recall specifics)

the people have spoken **mic drop**

 

[Bluemustang]

I do get why some people are mad about this. Sadly, the Camaro is the FAR superior performing car. It’s not even close. You’d probably have to do a lot of modifications to get faster than the Camaro on the track. And spend a lot of money doing it.

Why does the Mustang still outsell the Camaro? 1. It looks better. 2. You can’t see out of the Camaro and you’ll likely crash into a wall.

 

[Zathras]

For at least the last few design generations I think Ford and GM have approached the Mustang and Camaro respectively with different priorities and strategies. Ford has been content to keep the Mustang base model and GT as fairly "mainstream" cars that are quick, but still practical and comfortable enough that just about anyone can live with it as a daily driver. Chevy seems less concerned with practicality, comfort, (and visibility) and is selling cars with a narrower focus (on raw performance).

When I was younger I was fine with/preferred the Camaro approach, but now that I'm older I want something I can see out of, and fit stuff in the trunk, and has nicer materials, etc. And where I live, I'm stuck in traffic most of the time, and have no access to any real tracks, so I'm probably never going to drive the car at more than 7/10ths of its potential anyway.

 

[tyler2k]

December Camaro sales: 3800
December Mustang sales: 7500ish (cant recall specifics)

the people have spoken **mic drop**

yea they wanted a cheaper car with huge blowout sales to get rid of the outdated car. its kinda sad when you can't just admit something is better then what you have, perfect example is a Harley, ride like crap, no power, expensive but they sell, why cause its a Harley not cause its the better option. ford is choosing to play catch up and not one up, they are just getting in line with the straight line performance and still get beat on the track by gm, and they've had the most time to study the competion

 

[65Terdlingua]

My point is why do something if it's a flawed comparison? Plenty of other cars for them to compare until the PP2 is available. Like UAMach1 said, I don't care if the Mustang still loses but at least make it a fair comparison, which Motor Trend was fully capable of doing if they bothered to wait, but they chose not to.

I agree that a smaller and lighter Mustang would be ideal but I don't think that's in the cards if the S650 platform is being pushed back. Maybe it'll happen in 5 years or so, but not anytime soon.

Bullitt i get your point for sure. Of course we want them to compare the top Camaro SS vs the top Mustang GT, thats more fair. And I do also want to see those results. But in the real world, the Mustang and Camaro will always be compared, and not at ideal times for either in some cases. At this point, the Mustang suffers because of whats available, but Motortrend still wants an article so they are going to do it. It would just be better if Ford was making a product that could beat the competition, even with a slight miss match. In the end I dont really care if the Mustang loses either, because Im not racing one anyway. But I sure do wish we could all say the Mustang is faster on track, AND has a lot higher quality interior and ride and everything else.

Maybe the PP2 will achieve that, maybe the new Bullitt will (please hurry up and get one!). But I think a test like this should be a slap in the face to Ford and their brand new refresh, and plenty of reason to continue with S650 development and create a holy grail for Mustang fans. Until then, Lets hope the GT500 and 500(K)R beat out the ZL1 and ZL1 1LE, and the Bullitt or PP2 can best the SS's.

 

[thill444]

yea they wanted a cheaper car with huge blowout sales to get rid of the outdated car. its kinda sad when you can't just admit something is better then what you have, perfect example is a Harley, ride like crap, no power, expensive but they sell, why cause its a Harley not cause its the better option. ford is choosing to play catch up and not one up, they are just getting in line with the straight line performance and still get beat on the track by gm, and they've had the most time to study the competion

GM was also offering some big red tag incentives on vehicles in December too. This tactic is used by all the Big 3 (deep discounts). You can't just say "Ford offers big discounts". They all do. I was seeing 20-25% off C7 Corvette's as well.

The fact is as good as the 2016 Camaro is to drive sales in 2017 (after a new model release) are the lowest since GM brought the Camaro back.

Why is that if the car is so amazing to drive? I am guessing because GM completely dropped the ball on everything else (interior, exterior, etc). It's why GM is talking about offering an SS model with all season tires (and likely some other cost cutting measures). They need to sell more cars or the Camaro may cease to exist.

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