Guess what? Motortrend favors the Camaro again

[UAmach1]

What do you want in a car? If throwing down the fastest lap times to you is your priority then the Camaro 1LE is the car to get for the price point. If your car is more of a daily driver and less of a focused track car then the Mustang is the better car. I have no horse in this race but I do agree that a PP2 and 1LE and PP1 and SS are the closer comparison. But it is what it is, and that comparison will happen at some point.

I drove a 2018 PP1M6 Mustang last week and a 2SS yesterday and my observations are the Camaro really is the better drivers car and the Mustang the better all around car. The Camaro has noticeble more torque and sharper steering. The Ford steeting is slighly more numb but the Coyote loves to rev. The Mustang sounds better. The Camaro has a lot of compromises vs the Mustang in terms of interior. The sighlines are worse. The head unit is tilted down and looks cheap. The storgage in the car is just terrible. The trunk is ridiculous for a car this size. The 2SS seats uncomoftable vs the Mustang seats. On a 20 minute test drive I was already uncomfortable. The vents by your hands are poorly placed.

The overall materials are simialr but the Mustang is just better executed car in terms of styling and function. I thikn the Mustang looks better too.

The Mustang is no performance slouch. It really is no longer just a muscle car, but the Camaro is a better dialed in drivers car and the numbers don't lie.

So it comes down to what you want in a car.

I don't think people are upset that the Camaro won, just that it wasn't as evenly matched as it should have been. If a 1LE beats a PP2, so be it, doesn't bother me at all, but this felt almost like a stacked/rigged outcome.

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[thill444]

I don't think people are upset that the Camaro one, just that it wasn't as evenly matched as it should have been. If a 1LE beats a PP2, so be it, doesn't bother me at all, but this felt almost like a stacked/rigged outcome.

I don't think it was intentionally stacked but I agree the outcome was deciced before the comparison even started if the H2H was solely based on performance numbers.

The biggest issue I have with these types of comparisons are the bench racers who buy cars based on these types of reviews and have no intention of ever tracking the car. Because these types of people will likely sell the Camro within 24 months.

 

[Snagged]

I always thought that the GT and SS were competitors and not the GT and 1LE?? :shrug: :shrug:

Indeed. So often people compare unlike cars and in doing so they trash the car that loses to the superior "competitor."

I don't think people are upset that the Camaro won, just that it wasn't as evenly matched as it should have been. If a 1LE beats a PP2, so be it, doesn't bother me at all, but this felt almost like a stacked/rigged outcome.

Absolutely. I've seen soooooo many Chevy vs. Ford comparisons where they two cars are not direct competitors.

 

[gmupatriot]

I dont get why everyone is upset. They tested the cars that were available, and clearly stated they would be running the test again soon, so probably when the PP2 is available. Thats not favoritism, thats just whats available. It amazes me that everyone is so mad at MT for this article. They clearly praise the Mustang for its good qualities, but is it there fault it cant keep up with the Camaro? They state that the 350R is a great track car and that the GT just doesnt share its characteristics. Whose fault is that? Motortrend? If anything we should all be barking up Fords tree to develop a new, lighter, better handling and hopefully smaller chassis. Does nobody want this car to be better and be able to beat the Camaro? How are people not tired of having the Camaro be the better performing car? Ford, build a new chassis that retains the good characteristics of the current Mustang, but has better performance.

Amen to that.

 

[Bullitt]

But just listen to your reasoning. They didn't have to do a comparison at all? That's just a poor excuse. Doing these comparisons is their bread and butter. Of course they will do a comparison of the newest and greatest cars. It's not their fault Ford didn't release the PP2 with the rest of the 18's. Or that the PP1 isnt enough of an improvement to keep up with the SS 1LE. Again I say don't be upset with MT. Be upset with Ford not producing a better performing car. And it will really suck if the PP2 comes out and is still just able to keep up. The mustang needs a downsized and improved chassis.

My point is why do something if it's a flawed comparison? Plenty of other cars for them to compare until the PP2 is available. Like UAMach1 said, I don't care if the Mustang still loses but at least make it a fair comparison, which Motor Trend was fully capable of doing if they bothered to wait, but they chose not to.

I agree that a smaller and lighter Mustang would be ideal but I don't think that's in the cards if the S650 platform is being pushed back. Maybe it'll happen in 5 years or so, but not anytime soon.

 

[Binfordtools]

Closed road course with professional drivers, under ideal conditions (usually). Not how most of us use our cars. In the real world, there are countless YouTube videos, and personal experiences we have all had putting some hurt-on Camaro’s that according to magazines cannot happen. They are both great cars in their own way, but I’m not losing any sleep over lap-time differences that can be accounted for by drivers, conditions, dissimilar vehicle configurations, etc.

 

[Snagged]

But just listen to your reasoning. They didn't have to do a comparison at all? That's just a poor excuse. Doing these comparisons is their bread and butter. Of course they will do a comparison of the newest and greatest cars. It's not their fault Ford didn't release the PP2 with the rest of the 18's. Or that the PP1 isnt enough of an improvement to keep up with the SS 1LE. Again I say don't be upset with MT. Be upset with Ford not producing a better performing car. And it will really suck if the PP2 comes out and is still just able to keep up. The mustang needs a downsized and improved chassis.

Think about the other side of things too. Seeing this test leads everyone to believe the Camaro destroys the Mustang when comparing the two. To the less informed viewer they assume this is a fair comparison and thus walk away thinking the Camaro is the definitive champion.

It's almost like a newspaper printing a retraction about a story they had gotten wrong. The people who read the initial story are likely to never ever see this retraction printed so what they learned by the false initial story is what they take away from the situation. Which sadly this type of thing happens all the time.

Besides all of this, I'm thinking the PP2 is going to be great but still might get beat by the 1LE. The 1LE is a monster.

Closed road course with professional drivers, under ideal conditions (usually). Not how most of us use our cars. In the real world, there are countless YouTube videos, and personal experiences we have all had putting some hurt-on Camaro’s that according to magazines cannot happen. They are both great cars in their own way, but I’m not losing any sleep over lap-time differences that can be accounted for by drivers, conditions, dissimilar vehicle configurations, etc.

Indeed. That is exactly why I don't pay a lot of attention to track times. I'm not going to take my cars to tracks so I just mainly look at power/straight line performance. Don't get me wrong, it's great to have bragging rights but not at the expense of ride comfort. If I'm not going to use it then I don't care.

 

[JohnD]

Reality bites. The Camaro may be butt fugly with lousy interior and ergonomics, but as a track weapon it is clearly best in class. If I was to buy a new car now I would for sure buy an SS1 1LE given that I want the best track car in my price range. It is a bargain compared to the Mustang right now as well. Ford could have done better, but they made some really poor choices with the Mustang.

 

[thill444]

Reality bites. The Camaro may be butt fugly with lousy interior and ergonomics, but as a track weapon it is clearly best in class. If I was to buy a new car now I would for sure buy an SS1 1LE given that I want the best track car in my price range. It is a bargain compared to the Mustang right now as well. Ford could have done better, but they made some really poor choices with the Mustang.

Or Ford thinks that having the fastest lap times should't trump everything else and realizes that 90%+ of the Camaro and Mustang drivers will never take their cars to the track.

If you are a hardcore track guy then yes the Camaro is the one to get for sure.

 

[wildcatgoal]

Reality bites. The Camaro may be butt fugly with lousy interior and ergonomics, but as a track weapon it is clearly best in class. If I was to buy a new car now I would for sure buy an SS1 1LE given that I want the best track car in my price range. It is a bargain compared to the Mustang right now as well. Ford could have done better, but they made some really poor choices with the Mustang.

Could not agree more, sorry to say.

 

[wildcatgoal]

Or Ford thinks that having the fastest lap times should't trump everything else and realizes that 90%+ of the Camaro and Mustang drivers will never take their cars to the track.

If you are a hardcore track guy then yes the Camaro is the one to get for sure.

Also could not agree more, haha.

 

[tyler2k]

even compairing the gt pp1 to the regular ss the ss still put down better times, and i see people saying closed course, professional drive ideal conditions isn't what an average person will ever have so track times mean nothing, so why is everyone arguing that these are 11.8 cars when evan did it on a close course in ideal conditions with a professional driver and that's ok. sad to say but even compairing the pp1 to the ss that they tested in the past the ss still won, not by as much but still won. and from a price point if you actually add everything the 1le comes with the gt is more money, like active exhaust, that's almost 900, and recaros, when i got mine it was like a 1600 option

 

[bootlegger]

even compairing the gt pp1 to the regular ss the ss still put down better times, and i see people saying closed course, professional drive ideal conditions isn't what an average person will ever have so track times mean nothing, so why is everyone arguing that these are 11.8 cars when evan did it on a close course in ideal conditions with a professional driver and that's ok. sad to say but even compairing the pp1 to the ss that they tested in the past the ss still won, not by as much but still won. and from a price point if you actually add everything the 1le comes with the gt is more money, like active exhaust, that's almost 900, and recaros, when i got mine it was like a 1600 option

There was a regular Joe posting a 11.9x time on the facebooks. Pretty sure people just use the 11.8 time as a rebuttal to the similar Camaro hero run time lingering out there.
I wouldn't compare SS vs GT road course times when not run on the same day.

 

[tyler2k]

There was a regular Joe posting a 11.9x time on the facebooks. Pretty sure people just use the 11.8 time as a rebuttal to the similar Camaro hero run time lingering out there.
I wouldn't compare SS vs GT road course times when not run on the same day.

that same day thing annoys me, by that standard a Honda civic could be a gt350r around the track because they were never tested same day and driver, i know it's an extreme example, but given the numbers we have fun the same company with the same drivers the ss won but it was close

 

[EFI]

and nearly three tenths of a second better than a 2015 Mustang GT Performance Pack (1:24.29).

Only 3 tenths of a second faster than the 2015 GTPP? Sounds a bit fishy.

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