Ford Racing ProCal Tune

[Materials]

I was on the Ford racing site a couple weeks back and asked one of their reps when their ProCal Tune would be out for the Mustang EB. They said the scheduled release date is August 1st.

Has anyone else been told this or found a source with the scheduled release date? My biggest issue is warranty. With only 1,600 miles I have a ways to go before the power train warranty expires, which is a good thing.

The downside is I can't run a tune and no I'm not going to risk and serious engine failure on a $26,000 car the bank still owns. Maybe if it was paid for in cash or I was done with payments and the warranty was up, I might do it as I could replace the entire engine in cash if needed, but that's not the case right now.

So that leaves only the Ford Racing tune and a few other minor changes (which I confirmed with the Ford Racing rep) which should not have any effect on the power train warranty, such as an inter cooler and catch can both of which go a long way in making the engine more reliable (catch can and IC) and consistent power pull after pull (IC).

The Ford Racing rep is the only source I've found on a release date so I'm just wondering if anyone else has heard or seen anything on this that would confirm / reinforce that.

I literally think the most important mod that should be prioritized is wheel/tire and brake pad, if track is where you intend to use those mod for. Getting a good set of tires/wheel is a lot more important. Just my 2 cents

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[solodogg]

My IAT2s go pretty high as you see so I'm sure an FMIC would be a solid helper.

shhhhh...none of this nonsense about upgrading intercooler actually helping stuff

:lol:

 

[yomamma219]

shhhhh...none of this nonsense about upgrading intercooler actually helping stuff

:lol:

Well honestly I'm still somewhat I of a FMIC denier. The density of air at 100F is 2.69kg/m3 and at 140F is 2.5 kg/me. That's only a 7.6% difference. I know temp effects more than that performance wise but I have a hard time embracing all the hype when I can't quantify the difference ahead of time.

 

[yomamma219]

Well, unless he ends up sitting at the dealer writing a check for $7k for the new engine...should have bought the GT or went with the FP calibration, doh! I still contend that most after market tunes, especially shop tunes, are most suited for track only cars (or if your EB is a secondary car you don't depend on).

Remember the 60k power train warranty is still in effect in with the FP tune. I've gone over that many times with their language it does NOT void the new vehicle limited warranty.

Their 36k warranty is a supplemental warranty in case their software were to cause a failure within that time frame. If something fails and it's not specific to their software then it's still a Ford warranted repair (like the HPFP failing or an injector getting stuck and leaning out a cylinder which the PCM would show in it's recent history).

I believe you can even still have the extended warranties as well. After 60k miles FP found no difference in wear between a stock EB engine and their tuned engine. That's really good news for those that want to keep their car for 150~200k as a daily driver and depend on that car for transport like do. By the way, this has got to be one of the biggest threads on this forum lol. Started by the guy to types too much ;-)

[MENTION=25093]TheLion[/MENTION], At this point I would only go with the FP Tune to keep my 36k mile warranty in-tacked. I think you are misrepresenting the 60k power-train warranty being in effect still. (for the record I got a CPO mustang with the 100k powertrain) I've read the FP warranty document and the way I understand it is that FP has their own warranty that covers any coverage gaps the tune causes up to 36k miles. After 36k miles if you have a failure that would normally be covered with the ford extended power-train warranty but, is directly caused by the FP Tune then you would be S.O.L. since the FP warranty coverage had expired.

The caveat here is that ford would have to prove without a doubt that the tune caused the failure, but it could be hard for someone to fight them if Ford did push back on a warranty claim as it could result in court battle.

 

[solodogg]

Well honestly I'm still somewhat I of a FMIC denier. The density of air at 100F is 2.69kg/m3 and at 140F is 2.5 kg/me. That's only a 7.6% difference. I know temp effects more than that performance wise but I have a hard time embracing all the hype when I can't quantify the difference ahead of time.

Temp is what it's all about, not volume. Higher temps lead to lower timing by design, thus not maximizing available power. These cars pull timing on a 95 degree day with the stock FMIC just sitting in traffic. And trust you me, a couple degrees of timing retard makes a lot more difference than 7.6% denser air at the TB.

 

[TheLion]

[MENTION=25093]TheLion[/MENTION], At this point I would only go with the FP Tune to keep my 36k mile warranty in-tacked. I think you are misrepresenting the 60k power-train warranty being in effect still. (for the record I got a CPO mustang with the 100k powertrain) I've read the FP warranty document and the way I understand it is that FP has their own warranty that covers any coverage gaps the tune causes up to 36k miles. After 36k miles if you have a failure that would normally be covered with the ford extended power-train warranty but, is directly caused by the FP Tune then you would be S.O.L. since the FP warranty coverage had expired.

The caveat here is that ford would have to prove without a doubt that the tune caused the failure, but it could be hard for someone to fight them if Ford did push back on a warranty claim as it could result in court battle.

You stated the exact same thing I did. I don't think I'm misrepresenting anything. I think Ford would have a hard time saying a stuck injector, failed HPFP or sheared cam bolt is caused by the FP calibration as those are all mechanical failures that have caused even stock engines to grenade.

There is value in the FP calibration from both a warranty standpoint AND from a safety standpoint long term due to the level of testing and engineering that went into developing it.

No, if the FP calibration had some how caused the failure it would not be covered past 36k miles, however when an engine grenades they send in the PCM to Ford for analysis and data mining. Generally they can have a good indication of the actual cause and things like stuck injectors (was a somewhat common issue on the Focus ST's a while back) will be quite obvious.

No, the FP calibration does not void the new vehicle limited warranty. It ONLY failed to cover issues the case where the cause is specifically found to be directly related to the FP calibration past 36k miles or you did something really dumb like running 87 octane with it. As long as you had it installed and certified by the dealer you have a lot of grounds to stand on plus you now have a working relationship with said dealer and a history with them plus a legal backing if so needed. It's the safest bet you can go with regarding a PCM calibration and it's a pretty good one too.

To suggest they will simply blame the PCM software from one of their closest subsidiaries and shut out a customer is purely speculative and there's no grounds to back up that claim. There's a wide range of how dealers react to modified cars, some are ok while others react very negatively, however if the dealer is certifying the modification you have a lot to stand on just by that alone.

 

[TheLion]

Temp is what it's all about, not volume. Higher temps lead to lower timing by design, thus not maximizing available power. These cars pull timing on a 95 degree day with the stock FMIC just sitting in traffic. And trust you me, a couple degrees of timing retard makes a lot more difference than 7.6% denser air at the TB.

Depends on the system, but I think solodog is right. Small changes in amplified systems can have dramatic effects. Take a transistor for example with a beta of 600. A few micro amps of current into the base can allow hundreds of times that current to flow from collector to emitter (this is just an example).

A TDI engine is an amplified engine so to speak, small changes in air temp can have a significant impact on power output. Just look at fuel octane rating as another examples, going to 87 octane on the stock tune nets a loss of 30HP or about 10% of it's rated power even though the octane rating is only down 6.5%. The effect is not directly linearly proportional.

I've see testing show peak power losses (especially at the top end where the turbo is nearing the end of it's efficient range of operation) of around 30~40 HP due to inter cooler heat soak (proven by simply replacing the FMIC).

We're talking about a lot more than just 7% though. After 2 gears there are quite a few tests showing outlet temps hitting 200~230 F with the FMIC efficiency bottom out around 25% (FFTech did a great write up on this). Once it heat soaks (saturates) it's efficiency drops off the map and it's not hard to reach saturation conditions even on the stock PCM software due to it's small size = low surface area, low thermal inertia, and poor flow characteristics. The PCM software is what keeps the engine running safe, not the FMIC.

However you can maximize power output by allowing ideal conditions into the engine so the PCM will run maximum timing. In our case, that's Octane rating and Air temps which we can largely effect without voiding the warranty. It's not going to allow you to make extra power, but will allow you to make full power and the 2.3L was heavily handicapped by it's inter cooler and original power curve limits (due in large part to the requirement to run 87).

 

[yomamma219]

You stated the exact same thing I did. I don't think I'm misrepresenting anything. I think Ford would have a hard time saying a stuck injector, failed HPFP or sheared cam bolt is caused by the FP calibration as those are all mechanical failures that have caused even stock engines to grenade.

There is value in the FP calibration from both a warranty standpoint AND from a safety standpoint long term due to the level of testing and engineering that went into developing it.

No, if the FP calibration had some how caused the failure it would not be covered past 36k miles, however when an engine grenades they send in the PCM to Ford for analysis and data mining. Generally they can have a good indication of the actual cause and things like stuck injectors (was a somewhat common issue on the Focus ST's a while back) will be quite obvious.

No, the FP calibration does not void the new vehicle limited warranty. It ONLY failed to cover issues the case where the cause is specifically found to be directly related to the FP calibration past 36k miles or you did something really dumb like running 87 octane with it. As long as you had it installed and certified by the dealer you have a lot of grounds to stand on plus you now have a working relationship with said dealer and a history with them plus a legal backing if so needed. It's the safest bet you can go with regarding a PCM calibration and it's a pretty good one too.

To suggest they will simply blame the PCM software from one of their closest subsidiaries and shut out a customer is purely speculative and there's no grounds to back up that claim. There's a wide range of how dealers react to modified cars, some are ok while others react very negatively, however if the dealer is certifying the modification you have a lot to stand on just by that alone.

Yea I think we are on the same page. I just don't like when people imply there would be no issue making a warranty claim after 36k miles with the FP Tune. From my understanding after that point, warranty wise you are in the same boat with whatever tune you have. Now each tunes safety/reliability is a whole other story though, and I do have confidence that the FP Tune is the safest out there.

 

[yomamma219]

As far as FMIC are concerned I am more so wondering if there is any data to show how/why a 30ish degree air temp difference effects combustion chamber so much when the temperatures are hundreds of degrees in there.

Just looking to learn so I can make an educated decision.

 

[kystang]

I had a warranty issue after the FP tune. One of the pony projection lights needed replacement. I was told by the service center here that since I had Ford Performance parts installed on the vehicle that the service required authorization beyond the dealership. This authorization took almost 2 weeks on something obviously not caused by the tune. I would have been sick to have been without a vehicle that long had it been something major.

 

[yomamma219]

I had a warranty issue after the FP tune. One of the pony projection lights needed replacement. I was told by the service center here that since I had Ford Performance parts installed on the vehicle that the service required authorization beyond the dealership. This authorization took almost 2 weeks on something obviously not caused by the tune. I would have been sick to have been without a vehicle that long had it been something major.

Whoa this is rough to hear. I wonder if you could have gotten faster service with a bit of pushing. Did you get the tune installed at the same dealership?

I was probably going to have a local shop do the install. I had them do my wheels/tires and they seem really good and I specifially asked if they were ASE certified (which they laughed at btw) just to see if they could install the tune withing the warranty requirements. Figure this would somewhat hide it from the dealership without trying to be obvious about hiding it.

 

[kystang]

This is the same dealership that installed the tune. It's just a little unnerving to go that long without knowing if they are going to fix something that should be covered under warranty. I didn't get authorization until after I called Ford customer service. I don't think it was necessarily the dealership's fault, but maybe a regional manager?

 

[lizardrko]

As far as FMIC are concerned I am more so wondering if there is any data to show how/why a 30ish degree air temp difference effects combustion chamber so much when the temperatures are hundreds of degrees in there.

Just looking to learn so I can make an educated decision.

Just search the big intercooler section. There are plenty of data logs on there that show before and after a new FMIC. I am more curious to see if there are any gains with a FMIC + FP tune outside of more consistent power. Is there any gains up top on the first run? Has the heatsoak actually occured that early? Obviously the outside temp surely is a factor but still. Since most people who get a FMIC have a pro tune that tunes specifically for that FMIC. Will the benefits be as noticeable on the FP tune

 

[lizardrko]

I had a warranty issue after the FP tune. One of the pony projection lights needed replacement. I was told by the service center here that since I had Ford Performance parts installed on the vehicle that the service required authorization beyond the dealership. This authorization took almost 2 weeks on something obviously not caused by the tune. I would have been sick to have been without a vehicle that long had it been something major.

Sounds like you need a different dealer. That just shows how picky they are with even the slightest mod. Why would a dealer even care thats like saying hey u have a wide body kit and your engine blew up, sorry you're SOL.

 

[TheLion]

This is the same dealership that installed the tune. It's just a little unnerving to go that long without knowing if they are going to fix something that should be covered under warranty. I didn't get authorization until after I called Ford customer service. I don't think it was necessarily the dealership's fault, but maybe a regional manager?

Different people will have different experiences with their local dealers. I had snow tires put on and an alignment done after the FP calibration install back during the the winter.

Obviously that has nothing to do with the FP Calibration just like your light issue, but didn't have a single hiccup, they took it right in and did everything without any hesitation. Regardless, warranties matter when you have issues and I think it's safe to say different people will have different experiences regarding warranty issues, but regardless you have legal documents which you can stand on.

Try bringing in the warranty form for the FP calibration next time, you might get further much quicker when they have the lawyers own words right in front of them. Many dealerships aren't even aware of the FP calibrations, thankfully mine is big enough that the techs had already done FP calibrations on some GT's so they were familiar with it to a degree.

Other's have reported that some dealerships had never even heard of that or were aware you could do that until they brought their car in. I think we've beat this subject into the ground now. Just be smart, document everything, get the paperwork filled out and keep a copy of the Ford Performance legal documents in your glove box as a reference they can't simply ignore or deny.

Regarding inter cooler and top end power, the dyno graph on the FP calibration on FP's website shows a quick fall off after about 6100 rpm. That dyno was on a bone stock engine and that fall off is in large part due to the FMIC's pressure drop and heat soak.

Take a look at the dyno's from fox, (there's one on a user review from CJ Pony parts under the FP calibration a user had posted) and the recent one. I think every one of them had an upgraded FMIC except maybe one and they show a relatively flat top end.

Since I'm working with ATM (Dave) to test their FMIC, I will getting mine up on the dyno in the next couple weeks (currently have the Levels 20x14x3.5 with cast end tanks) before I make any changes then again after I install the ATM FMIC. Should be pretty interesting to see how it all starts to come together from a numbers standpoint.

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